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Post by karma67 on Feb 23, 2022 8:18:24 GMT
my question is how much influence do you think the resistors have in the final sound,not the value but different brands. i have just changed out some Shinkoh Tantalum Resistors to using vishay ones bought from ebay and prefer them. the difference is enough for me to order a selection of brands to try.
a quick shop at hif collective and i have coming some Charcroft Z-Foils,Takman Metal Films and PRP's. oh the things you do when self isolating  |
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optical
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Post by optical on Feb 23, 2022 8:22:20 GMT
my question is how much influence do you think the resistors have in the final sound,not the value but different brands. i have just changed out some Shinkoh Tantalum Resistors to using vishay ones bought from ebay and prefer them. the difference is enough for me to order a selection of brands to try.
a quick shop at hif collective and i have coming some Charcroft Z-Foils,Takman Metal Films and PRP's. oh the things you do when self isolating  Covid has been good to the HiFi collective boys I would say . . . .  I hadn't considered that different brands would sound different but it's certainly possible, as you are hearing. Are the resistors you swapped of a different material? In which case that could be the factor rather than the brand differences. |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 23, 2022 8:24:53 GMT
only the Shinkoh which are Tantalum,perhaps they aren't best suited for that area??
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Post by optical on Feb 23, 2022 8:27:09 GMT
only the Shinkoh which are Tantalum,perhaps they aren't best suited for that area?? Certainly possible, I've used them to lower output gain on a preamp and they actually sounding incredibly good there. I think you're going about it the right way by ordering a few to see what 'flavor' you prefer, only way you'll know for sure really as it's your system and your ears. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 23, 2022 8:37:35 GMT
I used Tantalum resistors in my second DCB1 build. They did make a difference. Sounding cleaner than the metal foil i had in.
However, those metal foil resistors came off eBay when I knew no better.
These days, I find that unless you are using a different material, the resistor effect is negligible.
I tried Z-Foils, PRP, Royal Ohm, Vishay Dale and a couple of others in BB3 builds and the only real discernable difference came when i got the tolerance down from 1% to 0.1% and matched the channels.
Even more so when critical areas of the circuit such as RIAA were given exact value. This makes sense as you are altering the curve, but as long as the resistor material was the same, it didn't make any difference. Hence why I haven't got mental buying up all the Z-Foils in the world.
May be that your tolerance of the channels got closer to each other when you changed the resistors....?
We have also put Z-Foils in a BBu....no difference to the Vishay Dale we use, of exactly the same value.
Used Vishay, Royal Ohm and Vishay Dale in BT2's....no change...
Dunno. Interesting subject though.
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Post by karma67 on Feb 23, 2022 8:44:18 GMT
i have heard people say the Z-Foils can sound a little dry and that they prefer Shinkoh,that's 2 types of resistor there.
i found the Shinkoh's sounded slightly shut in and the ebay vishays more open,hence why i decided to try a few brands.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 23, 2022 8:50:56 GMT
i have heard people say the Z-Foils can sound a little dry and that they prefer Shinkoh,that 2 tyles of resistor there. i found the Shinkoh's sounded slightly shut in and the ebay vishays more open,hence why i decided to try a few brands. Yeah, I get that. Ties in with what I said. Different material creating a different sound. It is an interesting area, no doubt. Not daft money to experiment with either. Tantalums were excellent in that DCB1. I think I chose them over Z-Foils IIRC |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 24, 2022 12:19:28 GMT
they got here yesterday and i lost no time soldering them into rca plugs.
today ive just used them for the last 3 hours in rotation. The PRP PR9372 Series Metal Films and the Takmans are pretty much the same in how they sound. The Vishay naked foils on the other hand slightly reduced the soundstage in height and were just a tad quieter in over all volume with has suprised me. My choice that will stay is the PRP's,just a gut feeling.
My thoughts are now turning to,should i remove the Naked foils the RIAA section in my paradise??? splitting an already split hair lol
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 24, 2022 12:22:46 GMT
they got here yesterday and i lost no time soldering them into rca plugs. today ive just used them for the last 3 hours in rotation. The PRP PR9372 Series Metal Films and the Takmans are pretty much the same in how they sound. The Vishay naked foils on the other hand slightly reduced the soundstage in height and were just a tad quieter in over all volume with has suprised me. My choice that will stay is the PRP's,just a gut feeling. My thoughts are now turning to,should i remove the Naked foils the RIAA section in my paradise??? splitting an already split hair lol I think it's worth an experiment. Remember to get the values as close as possible to tolerance so you don't skew the RIAA and make a decision based on that. |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 24, 2022 12:27:21 GMT
they got here yesterday and i lost no time soldering them into rca plugs. today ive just used them for the last 3 hours in rotation. The PRP PR9372 Series Metal Films and the Takmans are pretty much the same in how they sound. The Vishay naked foils on the other hand slightly reduced the soundstage in height and were just a tad quieter in over all volume with has suprised me. My choice that will stay is the PRP's,just a gut feeling. My thoughts are now turning to,should i remove the Naked foils the RIAA section in my paradise??? splitting an already split hair lol well if you already have copper you arn't going to gain much imo,you also can't tell from a photo,only way to be sure is to buy them and see. lots of fakes on that site which is why i anti up and by from a trusted seller here in the UK. you pay more obviously but i know what im getting. |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 24, 2022 12:34:20 GMT
they got here yesterday and i lost no time soldering them into rca plugs. today ive just used them for the last 3 hours in rotation. The PRP PR9372 Series Metal Films and the Takmans are pretty much the same in how they sound. The Vishay naked foils on the other hand slightly reduced the soundstage in height and were just a tad quieter in over all volume with has suprised me. My choice that will stay is the PRP's,just a gut feeling. My thoughts are now turning to,should i remove the Naked foils the RIAA section in my paradise??? splitting an already split hair lol I think it's worth an experiment. Remember to get the values as close as possible to tolerance so you don't skew the RIAA and make a decision based on that. for sure if and its a big if it would be like for like. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 24, 2022 12:35:23 GMT
I think it's worth an experiment. Remember to get the values as close as possible to tolerance so you don't skew the RIAA and make a decision based on that. for sure if and its a big if it would be like for like. What material are the loading plugs and sockets? |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 24, 2022 12:45:35 GMT
CMC copper sockets but brass/gold plate for plugs.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 24, 2022 13:05:00 GMT
CMC copper sockets but brass/gold plate for plugs. Try copper plugs...If the resistors are making a difference, then no reason for the plugs not to |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 24, 2022 19:25:26 GMT
I like the Dale rn and rc parts, cheap and cheerful. I also like the beyschlag melf when you can find em available. Same goes for the susumu rs audio thin film parts.
Favourites by a country mile are the tx component naked foil.
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Post by rexton on Feb 25, 2022 12:25:11 GMT
I never bothered with loading plugs, just z foils straight onto the PCB in my paradise. I really can't be arsed with all the faffingf around with the experimentation.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 25, 2022 18:43:35 GMT
But there's magic to be found in those last few % as you home in on optimal loading...
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Post by rexton on Feb 25, 2022 18:46:30 GMT
But there's magic to be found in those last few % as you home in on optimal loading... Yeah that's why I'd spent a wee while learning the values I preferred. |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 25, 2022 19:19:15 GMT
But there's magic to be found in those last few % as you home in on optimal loading... Yeah that's why I'd spent a wee while learning the values I preferred. ah so you could be arsed to faff around then  |
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Post by rexton on Feb 25, 2022 19:34:29 GMT
Yeah that's why I'd spent a wee while learning the values I preferred. ah so you could be arsed to faff around then  Yep, I've done a lot in the past, but not with the Paradise. I think your experimentation with differing resistor types should be commended as you seek more and more out of your system. I'm just very happy with the way that everything sounds so I'm not very inclined to rip open the paradise and started doing in-depth listening sessions. As I get a little older I'm leaning more into enjoying the music rather than continued experimentation with every facet of my system. It's a lot less stressful that way! |
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Post by karma67 on Feb 25, 2022 19:42:17 GMT
yep i hear you,in my defence i was positive with covid and bored shitless |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 25, 2022 23:37:08 GMT
I have plugs for pretty much all standard values from 10r to 1k. In some cases ortofon black +/- 10r can make a huge difference. With my benz lp, not so much.
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Post by rexton on Feb 26, 2022 8:01:47 GMT
I have plugs for pretty much all standard values from 10r to 1k. In some cases ortofon black +/- 10r can make a huge difference. With my benz lp, not so much. It's with a silver Meister II SPU on the valve system. I think a set of plugs should be in every TT toolbox for setting up purposes. I suppose you could make a swanky set when your honed into your fave loading values |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 26, 2022 12:14:33 GMT
I've toyed with the idea of rigging up a smt 47 position elma dual gang pot with rca plugs on it just to have as a set up tool for customers. But it's just easier to rock up with a full set, or a range of 100r +/- the nominal values and leave them with three plugs centered on their preference on the day.
At the end of the day, no plug at all is the best option with the loading resistor right on the input pads on the boards.
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Post by rexton on Feb 26, 2022 15:59:19 GMT
I've toyed with the idea of rigging up a smt 47 position elma dual gang pot with rca plugs on it just to have as a set up tool for customers. But it's just easier to rock up with a full set, or a range of 100r +/- the nominal values and leave them with three plugs centered on their preference on the day. At the end of the day, no plug at all is the best option with the loading resistor right on the input pads on the boards. Now that sounds like a really good idea for fine tuning values and then Z-foils soldered piggy-back to relevant values into the Paradise board. That could be a project to try out! |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 26, 2022 16:20:50 GMT
Yeh, but £180 + resistors and building it... that's a £300 toy.
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Post by rexton on Feb 26, 2022 16:44:20 GMT
Yeh, but £180 + resistors and building it... that's a £300 toy. Life's short mate, I can think of worse things to spend £300 on. Depends on how series you take this vinyl lark. You could do a decent side line on supplying loading plugs to your customers, so you'd get some of your money back. Or you could rent it out, lts of idea's to get your wedge back.  |
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