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Post by karma67 on Feb 21, 2022 10:24:52 GMT
ever since coming home from lurche's bake off (i took my TT) my turntable has sounded off,lacking dynamics. i was starting to think the cartridge was past its best. today i went back to basics and checked alignment which was bang on,i also routed the cables properly so no electric power cables were near interconnects, BINGO everything was back to normal. well i never! lession learnt!
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Post by jimbo on Feb 21, 2022 12:11:37 GMT
Cable hygiene  |
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Post by macca on Feb 21, 2022 13:42:44 GMT
Even I think it matters lol.
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 13:51:44 GMT
Even I think it matters lol. It can be measured then? Gary |
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Post by macca on Feb 21, 2022 15:23:20 GMT
Yes of course it can.
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 15:40:50 GMT
I’m interested, can you help me, what method and documentation is there that shows the effect on hearing, of the proximity of any other cables. Not interested in any forces that may be generated, but quantifiable effect on measurement of the interconnect or speaker cables. Gary |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,071
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 21, 2022 16:05:24 GMT
I’m interested, can you help me, what method and documentation is there that shows the effect on hearing, of the proximity of any other cables. Not interested in any forces that may be generated, but quantifiable effect on measurement of the interconnect or speaker cables. Gary NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 21, 2022 16:09:44 GMT
I got a little story which may convince you of issues with cable proximity to other cables etc. When I first had my turntable the dealer came to my house and set it up. The turntable was on a table close to a wall and the IC cable to the preamp had to be hung down the back but touched the wall as it did so. The buzzing and hum i had from this cable when touching the wall was horrendous! When it was moved away from the wall - silent. OK so this proved to be an incorrectly built cable with a shield that was not attached but somehow it earthed with the wall and went bonkers. Cable changed to another and no problems... or so I thought. I then found other cables lying across unshielded power cables which also caused strange drops in dynamics and a general flat sound to the audio performance. I bridged the cables and stopped any from touching at everything sounded fine. Over the years I have often found for one reason or another any cables touching each other could cause issues especially if they were unshielded. This convinced me of good cable management and hygiene. Wether it is an issue to you or not all depends on your cables, equipment and environment. Some recording studies dont let certain cables touch the floor as they have also observed audible effects. I don't know anything about the science or technical reasons other than cables have all sorts of ways in which RF and other electrical interference can interact causing issues. Electrons carrying power or signal information move in strange ways. This article may not be the best and is a about cable burn in but it does also touch on how electrons move in cables. When you start to appreciate the science of what is going on at a molecular level then you can imagine all sorts of things are possible! www.mojo-audio.com/blog/breaking-in-cables-and-components/ |
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 16:35:01 GMT
Jim I have no issues with this. There are various opinions that if you can’t measure something then they can’t possibly be true.
So for cable management to have an effect it must be measurable.
This measurement requirement creates issues for me. How is accurate measurement possible, whatever device or source you use can have an effect! Can that itself be quantified? Ad nausium .
My belief is if you can hear a difference there is one for you, we all differ in our acuity.
Gary
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Post by jimbo on Feb 21, 2022 17:20:42 GMT
Jim I have no issues with this. There are various opinions that if you can’t measure something then they can’t possibly be true. So for cable management to have an effect it must be measurable. This measurement requirement creates issues for me. How is accurate measurement possible, whatever device or source you use can have an effect! Can that itself be quantified? Ad nausium . My belief is if you can hear a difference there is one for you, we all differ in our acuity. Gary Hi Gary, As the old adage goes in order to measure you need to know what you are measuring for?  |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 21, 2022 18:08:17 GMT
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 18:26:22 GMT
That’s what I’ve asked, still waiting......
Gary
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Post by stevew on Feb 21, 2022 18:48:14 GMT
I’m interested, can you help me, what method and documentation is there that shows the effect on hearing, of the proximity of any other cables. Not interested in any forces that may be generated, but quantifiable effect on measurement of the interconnect or speaker cables. Gary NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Ever had that ‘deja vu’ feeling? |
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 19:24:20 GMT
It’s perpetual, like good and evil ..... Right and wrong. It’ll never go away. Do we want to discuss it over and over.....no. Can you ignore it....maybe. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not dogma. If I’m in the wrong delete me, no problem! Gary |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 21, 2022 20:03:15 GMT
A good example of mains vs signal and cable geometry
Google, star quad cable demonstration benchmark.
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Post by macca on Feb 21, 2022 20:58:32 GMT
That’s what I’ve asked, still waiting...... Gary as though I'm on the forum all the time, I do have to do other things, although admittedly not much. We've been told that although this is an audio forum we are not allowed to discuss issues of audibility. Which is a bit strange but I'm respecting that. I will just say that if you put a signal cable up against a power cable there may be sufficient levels of noise generated that it could audibly affect the signal. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,071
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 21, 2022 21:16:08 GMT
That’s what I’ve asked, still waiting...... Gary as though I'm on the forum all the time, I do have to do other things, although admittedly not much. We've been told that although this is an audio forum we are not allowed to discuss issues of audibility. Which is a bit strange but I'm respecting that. I will just say that if you put a signal cable up against a power cable there may be sufficient levels of noise generated that it could audibly affect the signal. Not quite what I said, but I appreciate the fact you're respecting it. stryder5 You've been a bit naughty here. Consider your bum smacked. If you want to discuss the evidentiary details of such matters, please start a thread in "the measurement dump" which I created for this specific reason. I have utter confidence that Martin, Simon and Tony would be happy to participate there. |
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 21, 2022 21:33:37 GMT
There is no evidence so far, that indicates a measurement is possible. There are too many variables in the Google site suggested which was only comparing two types of IC cables, not really relevant.
Happy to discuss elsewhere.
Gary
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Post by karma67 on Feb 22, 2022 8:43:18 GMT
i suspect people just are not interested gary,i know im not as my systems back up and running tip top. i found the reason and sorted it, im happy to believe that was the cause and i dont need proof that it was.
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Post by zleepy on Feb 22, 2022 10:10:28 GMT
I noted you observations with interest. Will certainly think about cable management and try out some different routings in my system as I suspect I might have a similar problem as you had.
What I am not the slightest interested in is the direction the discussion went once again. Grateful that Ollie steered the thread away from that bottomless hole.
/Karl
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