|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 8, 2022 2:08:06 GMT
Over on HFS, Stu (is he still a member on here?) has had great success placing an inner tube underneath his home made speakers (floorstanders) and will not be reverting back. Another member has also tried it and he agrees, it has improved the sq. I have read that others have come up with home brew Townshend isolation, so in the spirit of experimentation I have purchased two of these to be place on top of my speaker stands www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124471259737 and also two of these to be placed on top of the inner tubes www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275133886620 and my Cube 3's will then be sited on the top, most probably with the three wooded cones I have underneath them now. I will report back on my return, but in the meantime if anyone wants to try something like this themselves, I'd be interested in your findings, it's not an expensive try out. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Feb 8, 2022 7:21:38 GMT
Over on HFS, Stu (is he still a member on here?) has had great success placing an inner tube underneath his home made speakers (floorstanders) and will not be reverting back. Another member has also tried it and he agrees, it has improved the sq. I have read that others have come up with home brew Townshend isolation, so in the spirit of experimentation I have purchased two of these to be place on top of my speaker stands www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124471259737 and also two of these to be placed on top of the inner tubes www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275133886620 and my Cube 3's will then be sited on the top, most probably with the three wooded cones I have underneath them now. I will report back on my return, but in the meantime if anyone wants to try something like this themselves, I'd be interested in your findings, it's not an expensive try out. Ha! I love this sort of thing. When do they land? |
|
dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
|
Post by dt79 on Feb 8, 2022 8:07:26 GMT
Yes intrigued to hear the outcome! The inner tube thing sounds ideal as far as isolation goes, but I’d be worried constantly that something (or someone) was going to topple the speakers over.
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,623 
Member is Online
|
Post by optical on Feb 8, 2022 8:22:35 GMT
Isolation/damping etc . . . . a real dark art. With speakers even more complicated as you're balancing damping the energy of the speaker with the interactions of the room. In my experience you require a certain amount of interaction with the speaker into the room. Be that via spikes into the floor or isolating the vibration of them (but not the soundwaves they create) by using pucks etc is room/carpet/floor/layout dependent in my experience.
Fully isolating a speaker from the room (by putting it on a solid concrete plinth for example) can work with some speakers but can also make them sound completely flat and dead.
I have used those chopping boards (although larger ones) underneath various bits of equipment. Sometimes there does seem to be an improvement but after further experimentation I have always removed them.
Over-isolation (a spiked plinth on top of a shelf for example) is usually a bad idea and actually creates it's own separate resonance issues on top of any issues the equipment in a rack already has. Especially if there is a lot of LF energy (from subs or big speakers) 'rolling' around that area. If you put your hand to the shelf on a bass-heavy track, you can feel the vibrations being transmitted.
I suspect the energy has the most detrimental effect on more lightweight equipment, DAC/re-clocker etc. The heavier stuff, pre/power amp etc didn't seem to be affected so much. Everything sounds better now that I just use heavy wooden shelves in heavy supporting racks. I think the best compromise is to have a naturally dampening material (wood) and a lot of it directly underneath the unit be it a DAC or power amp etc.
Like I say, with speakers things start to get really complicated.....
Be interested to hear how you get on.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevew on Feb 8, 2022 8:24:48 GMT
Over on HFS, Stu (is he still a member on here?) has had great success placing an inner tube underneath his home made speakers (floorstanders) and will not be reverting back. Another member has also tried it and he agrees, it has improved the sq. I have read that others have come up with home brew Townshend isolation, so in the spirit of experimentation I have purchased two of these to be place on top of my speaker stands www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124471259737 and also two of these to be placed on top of the inner tubes www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275133886620 and my Cube 3's will then be sited on the top, most probably with the three wooded cones I have underneath them now. I will report back on my return, but in the meantime if anyone wants to try something like this themselves, I'd be interested in your findings, it's not an expensive try out. I’m a complete convert to the Townshend Seismic isolation products. Just a tad expensive So following a thread over on the wam I’m experimenting with some cheapo springs to try and replicate |
|
|
|
Post by brucew268 on Feb 8, 2022 8:32:57 GMT
I seen a number of people use it on electronics but refuse to do on the speaker for fear of them toppling. If the speakers are not in a context where they might be bumped, I would think it fine and I agree that if inflated properly they do the best job.
Properly inflated means just enough air to lift the box off the floor/shelf and can be demonstrated by a slow sway or 2-3 oscillations/sec frequency when tapped. The Townshend podium looks to be tuned similarly. The tendency I've found with tubes is too put too much air which raises the operating frequency.
I've also found that if using too small a diameter innertube (9-14") it was difficult to achieve but 16" or greater seemed to work. Some inner tubes lose air every week and need topping up whilst some seem good for a month.
That said, I'm moving away from them towards Isopuck minis for ease of maintenance. My understanding from Isoacoustics is that the Orea line may be just slightly more refined than the pucks, though I'd use a Townshend Podium if my context allowed, which it doesn't.
Let us know how it goes.
|
|
|
|
Post by brucew268 on Feb 8, 2022 8:43:02 GMT
Isolation/damping etc . . . . a real dark art. With speakers even more complicated as you're balancing damping the energy of the speaker with the interactions of the room. In my experience you require a certain amount of interaction with the speaker into the room. Be that via spikes into the floor or isolating the vibration of them (but not the soundwaves they create) by using pucks etc is room/carpet/floor/layout dependent in my experience. Fully isolating a speaker from the room (by putting it on a solid concrete plinth for example) can work with some speakers but can also make them sound completely flat and dead. I have used those chopping boards (although larger ones) underneath various bits of equipment. Sometimes there does seem to be an improvement but after further experimentation I have always removed them. Over-isolation (a spiked plinth on top of a shelf for example) is usually a bad idea and actually creates it's own separate resonance issues on top of any issues the equipment in a rack already has. Especially if there is a lot of LF energy (from subs or big speakers) 'rolling' around that area. If you put your hand to the shelf on a bass-heavy track, you can feel the vibrations being transmitted. I suspect the energy has the most detrimental effect on more lightweight equipment, DAC/re-clocker etc. The heavier stuff, pre/power amp etc didn't seem to be affected so much. Everything sounds better now that I just use heavy wooden shelves in heavy supporting racks. I think the best compromise is to have a naturally dampening material (wood) and a lot of it directly underneath the unit be it a DAC or power amp etc. Like I say, with speakers things start to get really complicated..... Be interested to hear how you get on. I thought that roller bearings might make my speakers work worse rather than better but found that the very low frequency and low inertia/friction actually made everything better... though that's horzontal isolation but vertical coupling, so it still benefits from further vertical isolation.
I've always thought of the massive plinth and spike approach as providing some mass inertia rather than isolation and so may or may not work in a specific setting. But my sand-filled massive steel Target stands do that and the mids and bass sure gain better body from it.
|
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Feb 8, 2022 9:52:22 GMT
The double board with the inner tube was basically Max's original design way back in the dark ages! If you want a solution that wortks and doesn't cost the earth, try a 35-50mm hard wood plinth, decouple this from the speakers sitting on the top this is decent cost effect way of improving your sound without rading the Paypal jar and it works. Why not get one of those accelerometer apps for apps for you phone and then you can check out how much vibrational energy you need to disappate throughout your whole system.
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 8, 2022 13:31:42 GMT
Over on HFS, Stu (is he still a member on here?) has had great success placing an inner tube underneath his home made speakers (floorstanders) and will not be reverting back. Another member has also tried it and he agrees, it has improved the sq. I have read that others have come up with home brew Townshend isolation, so in the spirit of experimentation I have purchased two of these to be place on top of my speaker stands www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124471259737 and also two of these to be placed on top of the inner tubes www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275133886620 and my Cube 3's will then be sited on the top, most probably with the three wooded cones I have underneath them now. I will report back on my return, but in the meantime if anyone wants to try something like this themselves, I'd be interested in your findings, it's not an expensive try out. Ha! I love this sort of thing. When do they land? I land on 10/3/22  |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 8, 2022 13:34:22 GMT
Yes intrigued to hear the outcome! The inner tube thing sounds ideal as far as isolation goes, but I’d be worried constantly that something (or someone) was going to topple the speakers over. Someone suggested putting a smaller inner tube inside the larger one, but I would think that depends on the size of the base of your speaker, don't think I will be able to buy a smaller one than the 8" I've purchased. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 8, 2022 13:48:00 GMT
Isolation/damping etc . . . . a real dark art. With speakers even more complicated as you're balancing damping the energy of the speaker with the interactions of the room. In my experience you require a certain amount of interaction with the speaker into the room. Be that via spikes into the floor or isolating the vibration of them (but not the soundwaves they create) by using pucks etc is room/carpet/floor/layout dependent in my experience. Fully isolating a speaker from the room (by putting it on a solid concrete plinth for example) can work with some speakers but can also make them sound completely flat and dead. I have used those chopping boards (although larger ones) underneath various bits of equipment. Sometimes there does seem to be an improvement but after further experimentation I have always removed them. Over-isolation (a spiked plinth on top of a shelf for example) is usually a bad idea and actually creates it's own separate resonance issues on top of any issues the equipment in a rack already has. Especially if there is a lot of LF energy (from subs or big speakers) 'rolling' around that area. If you put your hand to the shelf on a bass-heavy track, you can feel the vibrations being transmitted. I suspect the energy has the most detrimental effect on more lightweight equipment, DAC/re-clocker etc. The heavier stuff, pre/power amp etc didn't seem to be affected so much. Everything sounds better now that I just use heavy wooden shelves in heavy supporting racks. I think the best compromise is to have a naturally dampening material (wood) and a lot of it directly underneath the unit be it a DAC or power amp etc. Like I say, with speakers things start to get really complicated..... Be interested to hear how you get on. Read the thread here www.hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51320 I know it goes against everything we were told in the 80/90's, but I know my brother's floorstanders have benefitted using Townshend bars underneath on both concrete and suspended flooring. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 8, 2022 14:03:04 GMT
The double board with the inner tube was basically Max's original design way back in the dark ages! If you want a solution that wortks and doesn't cost the earth, try a 35-50mm hard wood plinth, decouple this from the speakers sitting on the top this is decent cost effect way of improving your sound without rading the Paypal jar and it works. Why not get one of those accelerometer apps for apps for you phone and then you can check out how much vibrational energy you need to disappate throughout your whole system.
Would this mean placing a 40mm hard wood block on the top plate of my speaker stands and using something like sorbothane hemispheres between the block and the speakers? I have found using my NVA Cube 3's I prefer three wooden cones between the top plate and speakers rather than something soft and squishy. |
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Feb 8, 2022 17:01:57 GMT
My speakers wobble - I use a combination of Auralex platforms and Hudson speaker footers (bought from Amazon for about £50).
Significant improvement on anything else I have tried. The sound is more lively and energetic and "in the room".
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 9, 2022 0:34:17 GMT
I remember you getting the Auralex platform, I was tempted to try them out. Hudson speaker footers, time for Google.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Feb 10, 2022 4:57:43 GMT
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Feb 10, 2022 7:19:33 GMT
Very good feet. Been using them for a while after a tip off. |
|
|
|
Post by hifinutt on Feb 10, 2022 8:48:42 GMT
i have an isolation platform somewhere with inner tube . they are a pitb as they start to deflate at some point and it can be a pain to reinflate with stuff on them .
i prefer the pods that townshend do on their platforms that need no inflation
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 11:23:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 11:31:41 GMT
i have an isolation platform somewhere with inner tube . they are a pitb as they start to deflate at some point and it can be a pain to reinflate with stuff on them . i prefer the pods that townshend do on their platforms that need no inflation Call yourself 'HiFi Nut' and your objecting to removing a component, inflating the inter tube to the correct 3.587psi once every week |
|
|
|
Post by stevew on Feb 10, 2022 11:40:11 GMT
i have an isolation platform somewhere with inner tube . they are a pitb as they start to deflate at some point and it can be a pain to reinflate with stuff on them . i prefer the pods that townshend do on their platforms that need no inflation Call yourself 'HiFi Nut' and your objecting to removing a component, inflating the inter tube to the correct 3.587psi once every week Is it time to try the little blue tablets? |
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Feb 10, 2022 11:50:38 GMT
Yes, the Hudson footers go between platform and speaker. I've tried spring type supports but haven't been impressed. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 12:28:53 GMT
The 2nd link would appear to be a rubber isolation device.
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 12:31:42 GMT
Call yourself 'HiFi Nut' and your objecting to removing a component, inflating the inter tube to the correct 3.587psi once every week  Is it time to try the little blue tablets? I have a good supply of them out here, $1.50 for a 4 pack. |
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Feb 10, 2022 13:01:01 GMT
The 2nd link would appear to be a rubber isolation device. Err, well, yes. That's what they Hudson footers are - silicon of some sort the blurb says. |
|
|
|
Post by brucew268 on Feb 10, 2022 13:56:21 GMT
i have an isolation platform somewhere with inner tube . they are a pitb as they start to deflate at some point and it can be a pain to reinflate with stuff on them . i prefer the pods that townshend do on their platforms that need no inflation I agree. If it holds for a month, fine. If each are weekly needing redoing, that's a pain. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 14:56:21 GMT
The 2nd link would appear to be a rubber isolation device. Err, well, yes. That's what they Hudson footers are - silicon of some sort the blurb says. Sorry I meant my 2nd link, not yours 'Err' |
|
|
|
Post by brucew268 on Feb 10, 2022 15:35:07 GMT
The 2nd link would appear to be a rubber isolation device. Yes, but for heavy kit. The lightest load rating is 10kg per foot, so 3 feet = 30kg component 4 feet = 40kg. That could work for a heavy-ish full size speaker and threaded in place of their feet if they use M6. If needing M8, one would source a dual thread bolt adapting from M8 to M6. Since it's for industrial equipment, I would assume the rating is way conservative, so instead of being for a 40kg speaker, maybe a 60-70kg? |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Feb 10, 2022 16:25:19 GMT
Yes I did realise thy would have to be used by 40kg+ speakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by awkwardbydesign on Mar 31, 2022 14:19:06 GMT
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 31, 2022 15:50:59 GMT
awkwardbydesign Tell us more about your adventures! These look very interesting
|
|
