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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 13:19:30 GMT
I have said before, the electrical supply here in Phnom Penh is not earthed, but you can buy what I assume is a copper rod, approx 4' -5' long with the facility to attach two wires, which can be driven into the ground outside. I have thought about doing this if my landlord allows, what I want to know, where would you attach the cable to on the amplifier and second, is it ok to attach two wires to the copper pole, one for the amplifier and on for the dac? Any other helpful advice appreciated.
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 13:23:17 GMT
get a local sparky who knows his stuff. No-one here is going to be able to give safe advice on the Cambodian power system. (good name for a band...)
Screw it up and you can easily end up dead.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 14, 2021 13:26:08 GMT
I have said before, the electrical supply here in Phnom Penh is not earthed, but you can buy what I assume is a copper rod, approx 4' -5' long with the facility to attach two wires, which can be driven into the ground outside. I have thought about doing this if my landlord allows, what I want to know, where would you attach the cable to on the amplifier and second, is it ok to attach two wires to the copper pole, one for the amplifier and on for the dac? Any other helpful advice appreciated. You can use the earth rod as an external earth/ground but you will not be able to install an earth Into your equipment. An earth rod has to be deep. Real deep, to be effective. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 14:08:51 GMT
And how you connect the earth to the equipment? Hard to say without knowing what it is, and how the mains input socket is wired.
But as Macca says, why take the advice from someone on an Internet forum, who does not know the regs in Cambodia.
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 14:40:44 GMT
Even if someone is time served fully qualified here I would not take their advice unless for some bizarre reason they also had an in-depth knowledge of the Cambodian system.
Screw it up and you're frying tonight.
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 14, 2021 15:18:12 GMT
I have said before, the electrical supply here in Phnom Penh is not earthed, but you can buy what I assume is a copper rod, approx 4' -5' long with the facility to attach two wires, which can be driven into the ground outside. I have thought about doing this if my landlord allows, what I want to know, where would you attach the cable to on the amplifier and second, is it ok to attach two wires to the copper pole, one for the amplifier and on for the dac? Any other helpful advice appreciated. What is your thinking about why you would consider pursuing this: safety, SQ, other? |
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 15:31:37 GMT
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Post by nonuffin on Nov 14, 2021 15:39:18 GMT
It isn't just depth the rod has to be at, but also moisture in the soil is also important to enable conductivity. If the soil is very dry then you will need to water it, my mate has an earth rod installed and he sited by his outside water tap which he allows a drop or two to drip out to keep the soil just moist in the summer.
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 15:50:21 GMT
I have said before, the electrical supply here in Phnom Penh is not earthed, but you can buy what I assume is a copper rod, approx 4' -5' long with the facility to attach two wires, which can be driven into the ground outside. I have thought about doing this if my landlord allows, what I want to know, where would you attach the cable to on the amplifier and second, is it ok to attach two wires to the copper pole, one for the amplifier and on for the dac? Any other helpful advice appreciated. What is your thinking about why you would consider pursuing this: safety, SQ, other? Probably a bit of both, if you touch the amp, even when switched off you get strange sensation, you do move your hand away very quickly. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 15:52:34 GMT
Gloves sound like a cheaper option, or a remote power switch….
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 15:52:54 GMT
get a local sparky who knows his stuff. No-one here is going to be able to give safe advice on the Cambodian power system. (good name for a band...) Screw it up and you can easily end up dead. I know there was a band here called 'Cambodian Space Project', saw them a couple of times, and they were pretty decent. |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 14, 2021 16:04:20 GMT
What is your thinking about why you would consider pursuing this: safety, SQ, other? Probably a bit of both, if you touch the amp, even when switched off you get strange sensation, you do move you hand away very quickly. Yeah, sounds like safety is a concern... and a job for a sparky. If it was only SQ, I'd say to check out grounding box systems like Entreq or Coherent RTZ, but I assume those don't have any safety-related applications. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 20:59:07 GMT
Gloves sound like a cheaper option, or a remote power switch…. It shouldn't be too expensive to have it done, I'll give you an example. The headlight on my scooter was not working, took it to a garage, there's lots of them about and not garages as you know them, anyway, he started by checking the wiring he could easily get at, then removed some panels, checked again, removed more panels and found the fault. Half a roll of electrical tape and it was sorted (joking), I think he replaced and attached a wire and then re-assembled the panels, 40-45 mins work, cost 50c, yes half a dollar. I gave him $2, told him to go get a drink, it was the first time I'd used that garage due to the fact of me changing rooms, but when I want anything else doing I'll go back and see the same young man  |
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 20:59:34 GMT
What is your thinking about why you would consider pursuing this: safety, SQ, other? Probably a bit of both, if you touch the amp, even when switched off you get strange sensation, you do move your hand away very quickly. what amp is this? That's more likely to be the amp than the leccy supply. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 21:03:18 GMT
It's an RFTLYS A2 valve amplifier, made in China, no it isn't the amp, you can feel it on the dac as well.
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 21:05:55 GMT
Should have added, strange you don't feel it on the fridge or the washing machine, yet you could feel it on a fish tank in the place where I play pool  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 21:16:57 GMT
Gloves sound like a cheaper option, or a remote power switch…. It shouldn't be too expensive to have it done, I'll give you an example. The headlight on my scooter was not working, took it to a garage, there's lots of them about and not garages as you know them, anyway, he started by checking the wiring he could easily get at, then removed some panels, checked again, removed more panels and found the fault. Half a roll of electrical tape and it was sorted (joking), I think he replaced and attached a wire and then re-assembled the panels, 40-45 mins work, cost 50c, yes half a dollar. I gave him $2, told him to go get a drink, it was the first time I'd used that garage due to the fact of me changing rooms, but when I want anything else doing I'll go back and see the same young man Best talk to the landlord then. |
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 21:17:31 GMT
DC leakage that is. Not necessarily a worry, it's accepted that it happens and there are minimum safe limits.
It could be both DAC and amp don't have adequate grounding due to poor design and/or construction. Or could be a more serious issue with the building's wiring.
I would get a sparky in to check all your electrics and make sure they are up to code, just to be on the safe side.
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 21:31:15 GMT
It has nothing to do with this properties wiring, in all three rooms I've used this amplifier, the effect has been the same. I honestly don't think anybody here would understand codes and safety issues, I've seen masses of wires in the street, looping their way along from pole to pole, to tree, to building, back to using a pole and then another tree. I've also seen sparks flying from these wire in heavy rain, there's no such thing as British Standard here, yet everyone's happy.  |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 14, 2021 21:32:44 GMT
DC leakage that is. Not necessarily a worry, it's accepted that it happens and there are minimum safe limits. It could be both DAC and amp don't have adequate grounding due to poor design and/or construction. Or could be a more serious issue with the building's wiring. I would get a sparky in to check all your electrics and make sure they are up to code, just to be on the safe side. That... and maybe a good capacity DC blocker on the feed to the HiFi distribution block. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 22:10:35 GMT
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 22:38:27 GMT
the leakage will be from the unit itself so I don't think a DC blocker can help with that?
I wonder if you have similar system to USA/Canada where there is a ground/earth point somewhere in the structure of the building? You might already have an earth rod.
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 14, 2021 22:45:29 GMT
the leakage will be from the unit itself so I don't think a DC blocker can help with that? Could be. I was assuming since he got it on the amp and DAC and the fish tank in a shop, that the mains feed may have large amount of DC feeding into all these components that they can't handle or even if handling, it may affect SQ. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2021 22:50:46 GMT
I don't think so, I made an enquiry at a hifi shop here who sold me the mains extension. I asked about other Clef mains filters which have a connection for earthing, and what customers did regarding this, and if the shop themselves fitted something, but from what I gathered customers would have installed something themselves and while I was there one of the shop staff purchased one of the rods from the electrical shop next door for use by the shop. I will speak with the landlord, and if needs be go back to the hifi shop, I feel a little awkward asking the shop how to carry on with this, and no one there speaks good English which is surprising.
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Post by rich04 on Nov 28, 2021 13:37:24 GMT
Do your wall sockets have a earth?
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 28, 2021 17:15:25 GMT
If you can feel something when you touch the amp and a device connected to it, try it with each device separately, see if its still there with just one of them. If it is its a safety issue and poor earth bonding.
If it only appears with multiple devices connected then it's due to the loop area of all the signal wiring and the circuits in the kit.
My money would be on it 99% being a power amp design issue with magnetically Induced gnd currents interacting with the earthing arrangement in the amp, psu 0v to signal gnd and lack of a real T or star gnd just off the main reservoir caps.
In short, speaker returns and signal ground shouldn't be shared, signal gnd should be lifted. Signal input sockets on amp should be next to each other with both gnds commoned and not chassis connected. All wires should be short and twisted and away from magnetics. Chassis should be bonded at iec to chassis and signal and psu 0v should be on a tail at the 0v point between the caps.
If you want to read it I have a 75 page guide I can point you at. By far the best guide to earthing, addressing the real causes and cures, not the supposed causes.
It's nothing to do with Cambodia, unless you have no earth in your wiring. 100% guaranteed, and an earthing box won't do Sh#t.
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Post by antonio on Nov 30, 2021 1:24:13 GMT
I'm afraid that is beyond me Simon, my mains cables for the amp, dac and smps that powers my re-clocker have earth wires connected at the plugs. My mini pc is connected with just an smps power supply, all of these go into a 6 way block which is connected using a two pin plug to the mains. My understanding is the mains here in Cambodia is not earthed, a friends fish tank gives of the same 'funny feel' if touched.
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