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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 11:33:49 GMT
I have been looking for threads on room treatments and I can't find anything too recent, so here goes.
I have understood room treatments can make a great improvement to sound, wonder if anyone has had good experiences with this, or not so good, perhaps something that has worked well as a defuser? I want to try something cheap, preferably free, to see what I might need to do within the room, before getting something more permanent.
My room is 4m x 4m roughly, in a 1930s house with a bay window. Speakers fire across the room, block walls, carpeted suspended floor. When I sit listening I get a masking / muffling of the sound in the mid range, when I sit up close to the speakers this masking is not there.
Best I have done is a cushion behind my head, this has:
1) not improved things
2) caused me to fall a sleep too easily.
I am going to try some insulation foam later on the wall behind my head.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 12:02:06 GMT
How are your speakers supported on the suspended floor?
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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 12:02:26 GMT
Well, insulation I have tried failed before I started! The stuff I have has got a foil on it so it just reflects, hopeless.
Trying idea 2... part of the mattress from my camper van. don't think it is going to do much to add to the room decor though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 12:13:05 GMT
The first question for me is do you need diffusers or absorption panels?
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 12, 2021 12:19:20 GMT
Idea 2 strikes me as good. That should provide evidence for any benefits of rear mounted acoustic panels.
I have several GIK Acoustics 242 panels around my room. Including some behind my listening chair, which is backed up quite close to the wall. I think they help a lot.
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 12, 2021 12:26:04 GMT
Here's my behind-the-chair setup. A 1.2m square of GIK 242 acoustic panels, mostly covered with a kitten.  |
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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 12:49:33 GMT
How are your speakers supported on the suspended floor? It is a pretty solid suspended floor! 1/2 inch floor boards on 4 inch joists. that said speakers are spiked to it. I have screwed into the floor and spikes resting on the cross heads of screws. When listening close, say less than metre from the speakers I hear a far cleaner and detailed sound that at my listening position, which is about 3 M away, but very close to rear wall. Going to try mattress behind my head first. |
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Post by macca on Nov 12, 2021 13:09:11 GMT
anything reflective behind you (window, blank wall) is bad. I have a window, I always close the (quite thick) curtains for 'serious listening'.
Only speculating but muffled mids may not be due to what is behind you although that may contribute, it may be due to reflective surfaces elsewhere in the room. You want to delay those reflections so the brain does not confuse them with the direct sound from the speaker. Pictures of your room will help.
Also what speakers are in use? As the directivity of the speaker will have some bearing on things.
It's a complex subject and even the experts disagree on some areas of it.
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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 13:18:23 GMT
Thanks macca, I guess there is going to be some trial and error involved. Solid wall behind my listing position, so plenty for reflection there. I'll put some photos up later.
My speakers are highly modified Naim!!! SBLs. I have a seriously upgraded X over on them and uprated tweaters. They work right up to the wall, which is helpful in my smallish room. I'm thinking room treatments as said above, sound is sweet in near field listening.
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Post by macca on Nov 12, 2021 13:54:29 GMT
some serious crossoverage there!
usual recommendation for the wall behind the speakers is a diffuser placed centrally. Not tried this myself although the wall behind my speakers is artexed so I wonder if that might give enough diffusion? Probably not.
I keep meaning to ask someone who would know, I like the idea that some 1970s design fad might actually be acoustically beneficial.
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 12, 2021 14:02:00 GMT
Given your room size (relatively small) I would start with 1st reflections of the side walls (where the sound from the speaker hits the side wall and crosses back to your ear creating 'smear' from timing issues) as well as the behind head paneling suggested. Something like this might give you a good idea of what to put where: (lose the TV if you're serious though as a lot will be reflecting off the glass).  It is a dark art but experimentation can yield excellent results for not much outlay comparative to upgrading hifi bits. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 14:38:59 GMT
I would also see if you can borrow some Isopucks (or a similar product) to fit under your speakers.
You will be amazed what they can do to the midrange. I am sure they won’t be the complete answer, but they may help.
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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 18:21:01 GMT
anything reflective behind you (window, blank wall) is bad. I have a window, I always close the (quite thick) curtains for 'serious listening'. Only speculating but muffled mids may not be due to what is behind you although that may contribute, it may be due to reflective surfaces elsewhere in the room. You want to delay those reflections so the brain does not confuse them with the direct sound from the speaker. Pictures of your room will help. Also what speakers are in use? As the directivity of the speaker will have some bearing on things. It's a complex subject and even the experts disagree on some areas of it. Started experimenting, mattress in place, wall to left is bay window, with heavy curtains drawn. Initial thoughts this has tightened base up, need to listen to more music of different types to decide on mid range. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 12, 2021 18:24:12 GMT
anything reflective behind you (window, blank wall) is bad. I have a window, I always close the (quite thick) curtains for 'serious listening'. Only speculating but muffled mids may not be due to what is behind you although that may contribute, it may be due to reflective surfaces elsewhere in the room. You want to delay those reflections so the brain does not confuse them with the direct sound from the speaker. Pictures of your room will help. Also what speakers are in use? As the directivity of the speaker will have some bearing on things. It's a complex subject and even the experts disagree on some areas of it. Started experimenting, mattress in place, wall to left is bay window, with heavy curtains drawn. Initial thoughts this has tightened base up, need to listen to more music of different types to decide on mid range. View AttachmentView AttachmentGood start, putting that mattress there will certainly be having an effect. If the room is symmetrical, which it looks like it is, you'll have to do it both sides or you'll slant the image. Good luck! |
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Post by pete on Nov 12, 2021 20:14:56 GMT
Started experimenting, mattress in place, wall to left is bay window, with heavy curtains drawn. Initial thoughts this has tightened base up, need to listen to more music of different types to decide on mid range. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button><button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Good start, putting that mattress there will certainly be having an effect. If the room is symmetrical, which it looks like it is, you'll have to do it both sides or you'll slant the image. Good luck! This mattress is really making a difference, amazing. My room is not symmetrical. On the left is a sofa in the bay window and some heavy curtains, so I am thinking these should be doing a good job absorbing sound on that side. (Hopefully) Attachment Deleted |
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Post by pete on Nov 14, 2021 18:19:24 GMT
Well, I never thought my room could be having such an effect on sound. I have the mattress on the right wall and another on the wall behind my seat, only about 20cm from my ears. the difference is amazing. Everything is cleaned up. mid range blurring has improved immeasurably. Much greater bass control and all those tiny details have emerged from being a bit blurred. Think someone has said on here before, it is like looking at an image and then putting on correct glasses, everything just jumps out of the mix. I am really pleased with this experiment and encourage everyone else to give it a try. Just have to get something a bit more permanent than the camper van mattresses, although, the colour tones in pretty well!
I'll give more updates as they happen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 18:33:18 GMT
The trickiest bit is to find something that looks good whilst doing the job.
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Post by pete on Nov 14, 2021 20:13:04 GMT
The trickiest bit is to find something that looks good whilst doing the job. yep, not even started that one yet! |
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Post by macca on Nov 14, 2021 21:32:27 GMT
The trickiest bit is to find something that looks good whilst doing the job. I've got a big silver roll of loft insulation as part of mine. It probably wouldn't pass WAF. But it works and I already had it so cost effective too. Plants will do some diffusion/absorption and are domestically acceptable, something with a lot of dense leaves. |
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 15, 2021 8:17:37 GMT
You can get acoustic panels which are decorated to your specifications, pick from a library of options or you supply the artwork digitally which is then printed on the panels.
Or cover them with decorative throws as per my previously posted photo.
Some of the wooden diffuser panels you can buy are works of art in themselves. Often quite expensive, though.
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Post by macca on Nov 27, 2021 9:14:08 GMT
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Post by karma67 on Nov 27, 2021 9:22:38 GMT
yeah but how much did all that lot cost ! lol
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Post by macca on Nov 27, 2021 10:17:50 GMT
twenty thousand euro.
But he didn't pay that, he's got it on loan until he moves house.
You could make all of it yourself for a lot less, probably a tenth of that. Assuming you don't cost your time.
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Post by pete on Nov 27, 2021 10:23:40 GMT
That stuff on the ceiling looks like the insides of the box my TV came in. Don't think I will get away sticking that to the ceiling though!
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