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Post by antonio on Sept 30, 2021 4:31:58 GMT
My system has not sounded quite as good as usual over the last week. I moved rooms a couple of days ago, before moving I thought I'd check the biasing on the amp, everything was ok except I did drop it down to 0.35v from my original setting of .37/38. Well I've set up the system again and it still does not sound right, there is an edginess to the top end so this morning I have checked the biasing again only to see the figure at .20v. I have been able to increase valves 1 and 3 to .40v but number 2 I can only go to .23v and number 4 to .25v. Does this mean my KT88's need changing? or can anyone give an explanation or a solution to getting me back to my perfect world Cheeky, but not rude answers are welcome, as long as they are helpful
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Post by macca on Sept 30, 2021 6:33:19 GMT
does sound like it could be a problem with the valves.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 30, 2021 7:53:58 GMT
Welcome to ValveWorld. The place where Sh#t happens. Maybe it's the amp. Have you tried swapping valves around to see if the low reader can get more juice in a different socket? If so, then it's probably the amp. If not, then some of your valves seem to be fooked. Sadly. Either way it's a booger. If I say, go back to solid state I'm sure I'll be told that they can play up just as much or more as well. Hmm, maybe. But that's not my experience. Unless you're called macca. And to be perfectly honest, solid state is just as enjoyable imo. I can happily swap between a good ss and a good valve amp. Anyway, good luck sorting it, Dave.
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Post by mikeyb on Sept 30, 2021 8:15:34 GMT
The room? Assuming you've moved the system prior to asking the question. If not then just ignore me 😂
Different dimensions, flooring, furnishing, wall decor, windows etc.
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Post by macca on Sept 30, 2021 11:22:47 GMT
Welcome to ValveWorld. The place where Sh#t happens. Maybe it's the amp. Have you tried swapping valves around to see if the low reader can get more juice in a different socket? If so, then it's probably the amp. If not, then some of your valves seem to be fooked. Sadly. Either way it's a booger. If I say, go back to solid state I'm sure I'll be told that they can play up just as much or more as well. Hmm, maybe. But that's not my experience. Unless you're called macca. lol - I've only owned 2 valve amps (unless you count a sole Leak TL10) and neither ever gave me any trouble. Solid state - I lost count long ago but must be getting on for fifty or so. Law of Averages I suppose. I do avoid valve amps generally though due to the hassle and expense. Plus I don't subscribe to the idea that they do anything solid state doesn't.
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Post by antonio on Sept 30, 2021 11:56:25 GMT
Thanks for your replies, this is nothing to do with the room or furnishings, it had an edgy feel in my last room and I did wonder if it was only me having a bad listening day since I'd been using an electric drill earlier in the day, and the noise from that had affected my hearing. I never thought about changing the valves round, I will do that tomorrow morning and report back, tonight I'm going out on my scooter (simply called moto's over here) just for a look round our new area. It is the first valve amp I've owned, purchased because I thought the warmer sound would be better in the lightly furnished rooms over here. This is not as good as my last room for hifi, since it is quite narrow and there is a open door way behind the right hand speaker, (it is not as bad as you might think ) I simply move the speaker when listening is finished. See you tomorrow
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Post by stevew on Sept 30, 2021 14:28:30 GMT
As a cold damp autumn arrives here .. it’s always nice to see someone enjoying warmer climates. How about a pic of your new room?
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 30, 2021 15:54:50 GMT
Valve amps = Warm sound. That old chestnut!
Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't. Nothing inherently to do with valves or solid state ime. I've heard solid state amps that are smooth as warm butter and valve amps that could stand duty as paint strippers. KT88 valves tend to a bold and forward sound ime.
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Post by antonio on Oct 1, 2021 0:24:30 GMT
I'll agree with you regarding an old chestnut, at the time I just thought it to be a good idea, the room had tiled floors (they all do) bare walls and hardly any soft furnishings. Well I simply swopped 1 and 2 tubes and then 3 and 4, and after sufficient warm up time (a good 30 mins) I checked the bias again, and have been able to set 3 at .4v and one at .25v. It seems to me that two out of the 4 tubes are really on their way out, and I may have to look at replacing all 4 tubes which is a bugger since I could do without the expense now. It is a bit too early in the morning to put some music on just to see if swopping tubes around has helped, I'll come back later and let you know how it sounds. If this fails I'll give the Topping PA3 a try just to verify it is the amp causing the edginess, too be honest I forgot about Topping and have stored it away already
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Post by antonio on Oct 1, 2021 4:06:06 GMT
As a cold damp autumn arrives here .. it’s always nice to see someone enjoying warmer climates. How about a pic of your new room? I will get Bigman to post some pics for me when everything is at least a bit tidy, I'm all over the place at the moment and I'm unsure if the system will stay in this particular spot.
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Post by antonio on Oct 1, 2021 4:55:22 GMT
This morning I've been busy ( I think a good days work now would see me off ) Well swopping the tubes around has not changed the sound and it still has an edgy feel. Ok lets put the Topping amp in and see if that helps, unfortunately it does not so what next. I've still got a pair of JBL Control 1's, so dig them out, have to take the banana plugs of the cable at the speaker end, more faffing, again I still have the same problem, but it's nice to hear them again especially with the valve amp and they don't sound bad, except for this grating top end. I then check the computer sound settings to verify they haven't changed, well I can't see anything different, input - Realtek Microphone and output DSD HD Speakers. It's now time for me to get ready and go play some pool, fair old distance now whereas before I was only 5 minutes walk away, the main disadvantage to being where we are now. The roads can be very busy, no one knows how to drive, it's everyman for himself, and of course you have to do the same, and have eyes in the back of your head. (I'm a good boy, didn't say eyes in the back of your a--e . Ooops ) Well it's back to the drawing board, I'll give it some more thought, hope you will to and try again later.
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 1, 2021 5:11:04 GMT
How about some informal 'room treatment' - Try a soft/thick rug on the floor between the speakers and you? Cushions / curtains. Etc.
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Post by antonio on Oct 1, 2021 22:32:41 GMT
Thanks for that Jerry, unfortunately I don't think that will help, in my two previous rooms it sounded great, until a couple of days before we moved and it really doesn't sound like it's a room problem. To be honest, the problem sounds more like you would get using vinyl rather than digital if that makes sense to you. Anyway, I've woken up early this morning so cannot play any music yet, and last night I got everything ready to stream some music just to try a different source, will come back, most probably while your still sleeping.
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 2, 2021 4:17:54 GMT
If the Topping integrated amp shows the same problem, and that was not too bright before either, then it's not the amplification that's the issue. Probably.
The system sounded good in your new place, then it became edgy? ... Sometimes it takes me a while to get used to a new sound, and then slight problems become audible, and can seem to get increasingly obvious.
Just sayin' that it might be your new room that's the problem. .... Try dumping a load of clothes or something on the floor between you and the speakers to see if that does help. Just something to damp down floor reflections a bit as a trial.
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Post by antonio on Oct 2, 2021 13:40:42 GMT
Jerry, the system started to sound off a couple of days before we moved, having previously sounding as good as it gets. Things have not gone according to plan today (something that rarely happens here in Cambodia ) I did get a quick listen this morning streaming using Tidal, but had to pop out, only getting home just before it started raining, and therefore putting me late for my game of pool Well just got there and it started throwing it down again, usually this would stop after 30 mins, it did ease off but never stopped, so got a little wet on the way home. The next bit of good news is no sooner do I sit down at my laptop the internet stops working, I would have liked to give Tidal another try, it will now have to wait until tomorrow. This mornings brief listen did sound a little better, maybe a better recording, I don't know, but I do get this feeling it is not just the system but my ears. I will try the pile of clothes trick Jerry and let you all know how I get on tomorrow.
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Post by antonio on Oct 4, 2021 2:14:55 GMT
I was really too tired last night to do much, but I stopped the fan and thought that made a difference, next I removed the speakers from the stands and placed them on top of plastic stools, bingo, they sounded much better so today I am going to remove the rubber feet which are on the end of a M8 bolt and replace with some rubber feet I was using before, these just sit underneath, I thought the adjustable feet was a good idea for levelling. Hopefully I let you know later today how I get on, although I have a couple of errands to make and my normal game of pool.
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Post by antonio on Oct 4, 2021 3:23:35 GMT
Back to square one, removing the feet and replacing them with different ones has not worked. It is not easy for me to explain the problem, it's as though the speakers are faulty, I did check the screws holding the driver in are tight, they are, now I am moving bits and pieces around to see if that helps although listening has come to an end, we have people come round
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 4, 2021 9:31:53 GMT
Back to square one, removing the feet and replacing them with different ones has not worked. It is not easy for me to explain the problem, it's as though the speakers are faulty, I did check the screws holding the driver in are tight, they are, now I am moving bits and pieces around to see if that helps although listening has come to an end, we have people come round Have you got spare speakers to try?
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Post by antonio on Oct 4, 2021 9:51:12 GMT
Yes, I did try my JBL Control 1's and got the same effect. I'm just going to try listening again after moving stuff around, will come back on the result
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Post by antonio on Oct 4, 2021 11:25:43 GMT
This time I feel I have had some success, played my favourite Acoustic Alchemy album and immediately thought 'that's better', but have had those feelings before, so I put on a real tester, and anyone who has heard Alison Krauss will know her voice can be more than a touch aggressive at the top end. So on goes Forget About It, certainly haven't cured Ms Krauss' somewhat unique voice but it was listenable which it would not have been before. Now what to to do, at present I've got my dac sitting on a chair, my mini pc and re-clocker sitting on a stool and the amplifier on the shelf, certainly cannot keep everything as is. Hoping Oli will post a pic for me so you can see.
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2021 11:54:40 GMT
you've tried different speakers and amp, what about the DAC? What is it?
Have you dressed the cables so signal leads well away from power leads?
Speaker stands might make a difference but what everything else is sitting on won't so I wouldn't bother going further down that road.
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2021 11:59:55 GMT
As Columbo might say, 'Just one more thing.' - Are you going into the rainy season over there? What's the level of change in humidity and does that correspond with the time your system started sounding edgy?
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Post by antonio on Oct 4, 2021 14:24:41 GMT
Good points Macca, I haven't been too worried about what everything is sitting on, there is a photo from before with everything sitting on a drawer unit, good and solid which I thought plenty good enough. There is a built in type of tv unit, hopefully Oli will post a pic soon so you can see what I mean. The router you can see has now been put on the top shelf, you can't see that in the photo, but it will give me more room. I am a little worried if it is anything to do with the extension block which I've positioned at the back, problem is I cannot put it behind the unit and if I put it on the floor at the front it will look a little unsightly and my power cables would not reach. Tomorrow morning I shall try again placing everything on the shelf and see how it goes, but any suggestions will be read before I start It is the rainy season now Macca, Phnom Penh doesn't seem to get that much compared to other parts although it did rain heavily on Saturday and Sunday, today haven't seen any rain. Would that have any effect on the sound of the system, I don't know, I've said before the electricity supply here is not earthed, I'm tempted to make enquiries about having a rod hammered into the ground outside and wires connecting that and the equipment. I don't know how you do this but may ask at a later date.
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Post by antonio on Oct 5, 2021 5:07:27 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 5, 2021 5:57:11 GMT
I can only download four at the minute....no idea why. I'll try again later 👍
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Post by macca on Oct 5, 2021 6:44:49 GMT
what's that blue cable running out from under the mains block?
Your house looks very French.
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Post by optical on Oct 5, 2021 7:24:11 GMT
I know you have commented that it sounded okay in your last room (presumably similar furnishings/decor) but to me with the tiles and wooden paneling, it looks like a pure echo chamber in there.
Especially with that wooden cabinet which could well just be reflecting all the higher frequencies back at you.
In my experience I very much doubt it is anything to do with cabling/positioning or indeed valves/hifi/speakers. I would wager the room and furnishings (or lack of) are the problem here.
If you have a spare amp/speakers, try those if you haven't already done so, if there is no change, it is the room/decor that is causing you the problems.
Best of luck by the way, I've had a lot of issues with various rooms, even ones with carpet can have high frequency issues. I'd also thing with the ceiling and the tiles, it's creating a lot of high frequency reflections as there is nothing to absorb/diffuse the sound. Most rooms have soft sofa's/curtains/carpet/bookshelves etc, anything that would help but given your circumstances (the need to keep things cool in summer presumably) your room and house doesn't look setup to accommodate this.
Lamps/curtains/bean bags/rugs/bookshelves etc can all be very helpful in helping to 'tame' a rooms acoustics.
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Post by brucew268 on Oct 5, 2021 8:52:44 GMT
I know you have commented that it sounded okay in your last room (presumably similar furnishings/decor) but to me with the tiles and wooden paneling, it looks like a pure echo chamber in there. Especially with that wooden cabinet which could well just be reflecting all the higher frequencies back at you. In my experience I very much doubt it is anything to do with cabling/positioning or indeed valves/hifi/speakers. I would wager the room and furnishings (or lack of) are the problem here. If you have a spare amp/speakers, try those if you haven't already done so, if there is no change, it is the room/decor that is causing you the problems. Best of luck by the way, I've had a lot of issues with various rooms, even ones with carpet can have high frequency issues. I'd also thing with the ceiling and the tiles, it's creating a lot of high frequency reflections as there is nothing to absorb/diffuse the sound. Most rooms have soft sofa's/curtains/carpet/bookshelves etc, anything that would help but given your circumstances (the need to keep things cool in summer presumably) your room and house doesn't look setup to accommodate this. Lamps/curtains/bean bags/rugs/bookshelves etc can all be very helpful in helping to 'tame' a rooms acoustics. +10 Very much agree. If people were singing in there I would expect the sound to bounce all over the place, to have a hard edge, lots of uncontrolled reflections, lots of HF detail that sounds great the simpler and more acoustic the music is but a nightmare for amplified music or complex acoustic. So if that is likely with live musicians in the room, I imagine a HiFi system will need the same, lot's of effort with soft furnishings especially floor and walls.
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Post by antonio on Oct 5, 2021 10:38:38 GMT
what's that blue cable running out from under the mains block? Your house looks very French. It probably does look a bit French, don't forget Cambodia was occupied by the French at the same time as Vietnam. The blue wire is the speaker cable going from the amp to the left hand speaker.
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Post by antonio on Oct 5, 2021 10:51:44 GMT
I know you have commented that it sounded okay in your last room (presumably similar furnishings/decor) but to me with the tiles and wooden paneling, it looks like a pure echo chamber in there. Especially with that wooden cabinet which could well just be reflecting all the higher frequencies back at you. In my experience I very much doubt it is anything to do with cabling/positioning or indeed valves/hifi/speakers. I would wager the room and furnishings (or lack of) are the problem here. If you have a spare amp/speakers, try those if you haven't already done so, if there is no change, it is the room/decor that is causing you the problems. Best of luck by the way, I've had a lot of issues with various rooms, even ones with carpet can have high frequency issues. I'd also thing with the ceiling and the tiles, it's creating a lot of high frequency reflections as there is nothing to absorb/diffuse the sound. Most rooms have soft sofa's/curtains/carpet/bookshelves etc, anything that would help but given your circumstances (the need to keep things cool in summer presumably) your room and house doesn't look setup to accommodate this. Lamps/curtains/bean bags/rugs/bookshelves etc can all be very helpful in helping to 'tame' a rooms acoustics. I understand what you are saying, my previous room was at least as reflective, and the problem started a couple of days before I left. Surprisingly I have had no problems up until then, the problem does not seem to me to be caused by the room or lack of soft furnishings, when you are close up to the speaker you can hear the sound distorting.
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