Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2020 20:48:12 GMT
Got one of these on the way. It's totally out of character for me to buy a cable, but I want to take it apart and see what's going on. I have also now commited to buying the N15D. It's been awesome since it's arrival and the sound quality is absolutely superb I love the functionality and the app is very easy to navigate too. I'm a big fan and will be keeping an eye out for a used X50D at some point in the future. The combination of Soekris and NF-N15D is top quality. If anyone is thinking of a new file delivery system, I would urge you to consider one of these. Big shout to Tony too, he's been great throughout the whole experience. Dealers are usually the devil IMO..... but Tony is a good guy and I can recommend him too. Now.....off to research the firmware update.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 18, 2020 22:31:35 GMT
Thats as good as spdif cables get with an rca plug on. Its not fitted with f plugs, but I'd warrant its blameless in terms of measurements of the dac output.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2020 22:45:07 GMT
Thats as good as spdif cables get with an rca plug on. Its not fitted with f plugs, but I'd warrant its blameless in terms of measurements of the dac output. Well it's cheap and cheerful so we'll see what happens. By the way, what's an F plug?
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Post by firebottle on Dec 19, 2020 8:52:34 GMT
An F plug is a F^>£ing abomination of a plug, used in satellite installations. It just screws onto the folded back braid on the outer of the coax.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 9:08:27 GMT
An F plug is a F^>£ing abomination of a plug, used in satellite installations. It just screws onto the folded back braid on the outer of the coax. Ah yes, I have seen those.
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Post by misterc on Dec 19, 2020 10:23:37 GMT
Thats as good as spdif cables get with an rca plug on. Its not fitted with f plugs, but I'd warrant its blameless in terms of measurements of the dac output. Allan I secretly suspect Naim designed them
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 19, 2020 13:39:06 GMT
BTW: TM3 Connections also makes those Canare 75 Ohm cables with your choice of terminations at each end. Similar prices and in the UK, selling on ebay.
Also I recall in the 90's that expert opinion was not to get 75 Ohm cables too short or you also get reflections. I think 0.5m was meant to be poor, and 1.5m was meant to be best.
In my desktop system I use a small and light USB>SPDIF converter (Douk XU208), but both it and the DAC are RCA only not BNC. I'm thinking of replacing the 1.5M cable with no cable, just an RCA(M)-RCA(M) plug converter between the components. Some have wondered whether something around 25mm is short enough that it won't cause reflections like a 0.5M cable will. ...And will I be able to hear any difference one way or the other?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 13:53:09 GMT
BTW: TM3 Connections also makes those Canare 75 Ohm cables with your choice of terminations at each end. Similar prices and in the UK, selling on ebay. Also I recall in the 90's that expert opinion was not to get 75 Ohm cables too short or you also get reflections. I think 0.5m was meant to be poor, and 1.5m was meant to be best. In my desktop system I use a small and light USB>SPDIF converter (Douk XU208), but both it and the DAC are RCA only not BNC. I'm thinking of replacing the 1.5M cable with no cable, just an RCA(M)-RCA(M) plug converter between the components. Some have wondered whether something around 25mm is short enough that it won't cause reflections like a 0.5M cable will. ...And will I be able to hear any difference one way or the other? TM3? Had I known, I'd have ordered from them
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 15:19:28 GMT
So, as I hasn't commited to keeping the NF-N15D, I hadn't installed the SSD into the internal storage facility.
I made a backup of my library and have just installed it.
I can tell you this with authority:
If you do try one of these, INSTALL THE SSD!
OMG....I thought this was good before but now it's a whole different ball park. Just shows the importance of how everything is connected.
3D soundstage, separation is next level. Strands of information being pulled apart and the level of audibility is crazy.
Not even looked at the Firmware on the DAC yet.
This was a wise choice.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 21:41:04 GMT
So the N15D is now paid for and has been given a long term home in the system.
There was a point a few days ago where i was looking at it and thinking...."£600 RRP? Am i really going to spend nearly the same as i did on the DAC for a file delivery system?"
There was an Allo Digione Sig on ebay and i hovered over the BIN button for about 10 minutes as i thought it through. I looked at loads of devices like this, but none made me think "yes, i will try that one"
I think the issue with this particular part of the digital chain is the idea that it only has to send data to a DAC and it's the DAC that does all the work. In ordere to get my brain around it, i tried to see the digital chain as an analogue one.
The NovaFidelity being the TT, the Soekris being the Phonostage.
I started to feel a lot more at ease with the idea of speding an almost equal amount on the NovaFidelity.
However, as with most things hifi, it's either the Brand name, the looks or the osund that parts folk from their money. The looks didnt come into it, the name is not what one would describe as "well known" either. SO for me, this decision came down entirely to SQ.
The installation of the SSD into the N15D has been really eye opening. The Soekris has opened up vastly. Elton John's - Rocket Man became genuinly unbelievable. I am not a huge EJ fan or anything like that but this song offers so much to listen to in normal circumstances. I listened a few times in a row to really take in all the new space, detail and overall change to the way the track came across.
It was like i was listening to a different set of speakers in truth. A auditory system being teased and taunted by little bits of floating micro detail and the odd tap, knock or click in the track just appearing from behind the speakers to pull your attention back in. I have wondered if my cup of tea had magic mushrooms in, but alas, the gaffer suggests not.
I am not suggesting that the N15D is the best at this job BTW, nor am i suggesting the Soekris is either, but they are doing things here that i have only heard in much more expensive systems, albeit to a slighter more diluted scale. I suspect dropping the X50D into the mix may yield improvement, but i doubt i would get all of it's ability in my room.
That said, if one came up cheap, i would be all over it.
I am now VERY happy to listen to this Digital system now and that gap to vinyl is getting smaller and smaller by the track.
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Post by antonio on Dec 19, 2020 22:46:53 GMT
"There was a point a few days ago where i was looking at it and thinking...."£600 RRP?"
Think of it as a turntable, and how much you spent on your Techie, looks like you got a bargain
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 23:14:33 GMT
"There was a point a few days ago where i was looking at it and thinking...."£600 RRP?" Think of it as a turntable, and how much you spent on your Techie, looks like you got a bargain Spot on mate. It's the source isn't it and I just couldn't get my mind through it. I don't know how good it is Vs everything out there but I am loving it.
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Post by stevew on Dec 19, 2020 23:50:20 GMT
Yes, well done Oli. I’ve been struggling with this for ages too. Didn’t know about the Novafidelity and don’t know how it compares with the Allo USbridge It’ll be an interesting comparison down the line. Potentially both sources open up divergence to the Dacs that process the signal. Or maybe it closes the gap.. ! The same can be said for reviewing dacs .. be it the r2r’s or chord dacs.. or whatever. Kudos to you for trying and experimenting Back in the day we would be more reliant and possibly influenced by magazine reviews. Often a reflection of adverting spend rather than sound quality.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 19, 2020 23:53:44 GMT
Yes, well done Oli. I’ve been struggling with this for ages too. Didn’t know about the Novafidelity and don’t know how it compares with the Allo USbridge It’ll be an interesting comparison down the line. Potentially both sources open up divergence to the Dacs that process the signal. Or maybe it closes the gap.. ! The same can be said for reviewing dacs .. be it the r2r’s or chord dacs.. or whatever. Kudos to you for trying and experimenting Back in the day we would be more reliant and possibly influenced by magazine reviews. Often a reflection of adverting spend rather than sound quality. Like i say, i don;t know how it compares with other similar units, but i know it made the Allo USBridge sound 2D and dead in comparison. Other than that, i think a "digital day out" may be required to see whats what!
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Post by antonio on Dec 19, 2020 23:55:07 GMT
^^^^^^^^ Wish there had been forums 40 yrs ago, instead of relying on magazines Very nice of MrC to lend you one, well at least it got him the sale
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 0:42:52 GMT
^^^^^^^^ Wish there had been forums 40 yrs ago, instead of relying on magazines Very nice of MrC to lend you one, well at least it got him the sale Mr C has loaned me a couple of bits to be fair, and I haven't bought any of them as they weren't my cuppa T. Also, seeing how my purchase represents about 0.1% profit compared to that of one sale of a TAD DAC or something similarly monstrous in price, I am sure he could live without my contribution to his yearly income 🤣🤣 Seriously, it was good of him to loan it me, as it wasn't ex demo etc it was BNIB and the second I opened it, it was devalued a little. All with absolutely no conversation about it or messages about how I'm doing etc. He just sent it up, and left me alone. No hassle. It gave me the opportunity to really settle down and evaluate it. Yes, this may be a very well trodden path to a sale that someone with Tony's experience would know to do, but believe me this hasn't always been the case.....I loaned a DAC off a dealer once and it was incessant harassment about buying it or sending it back. I couldn't get my head into the listening so it went back. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't have bought it and Tony knows this. As do most of you by now? Forums do open up the eyes to things that Magazines don't cover, usually great kit that is off the radar, but the amount of people who act as experienced authoritative voices or gurus, and don't know what they are talking about is staggering. I think most of us know quite a lot about one aspect, some of another aspect and F#ck all about most other stuff in comparison.....trouble is, some folk just don't know how much they don't know. Makes it easy to get led a-stray by these HiFi Guru's. Look at the digital thread as an example, and the stepped sine wave that doesn't actually exist. Yet bonafide YouTubers who are generating income are spouting this bollocks! Tread carefully, audition as much gear as you can and make up your own mind. Try and define what it is you like about certain gear and keep chipping away at that path/idea and introduce it into your setup. That's the only way to make the right gear choices Imo.
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Post by antonio on Dec 20, 2020 1:12:47 GMT
Yes, I know he sent you those speakers as well, postage would have been quite costly I had read before, that although these Raspberry Pi's are great value, they are outclassed by dedicated streamers
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 7:40:47 GMT
Yes, I know he sent you those speakers as well, postage would have been quite costly I had read before, that although these Raspberry Pi's are great value, they are outclassed by dedicated streamers Yes, they certainly are. I have read on TAS that the Asus version gets a rave review but I didn't want to go down that route.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 8:22:58 GMT
Yes, I know he sent you those speakers as well, postage would have been quite costly I had read before, that although these Raspberry Pi's are great value, they are outclassed by dedicated streamers Yes, they certainly are. I have read on TAS that the Asus version gets a rave review but I didn't want to go down that route. Most things on there do....
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 8:46:02 GMT
Yes, they certainly are. I have read on TAS that the Asus version gets a rave review but I didn't want to go down that route. Most things on there do.... Oh ok.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 9:11:49 GMT
Most things on there do.... Oh ok..... The Caiman SEG, Pi, Allo, Tinkerboard.... Very much a case of what I have just bought is the best component available.... There is always a small incremental change. Sure technology moves on, but I often wonder if things like adding weights to the top of a solid state component to cut down on vibration makes any difference. I never noticed any, but then maybe my ears are not the right colour?
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Post by macca on Dec 20, 2020 10:03:25 GMT
Sounds good but must be some way to go if it still isn't sounding better than your turntable Good for Mr T showing how a dealer should do things. My local dealer would not lend anything out even if you offered to deposit the full purchase price and only wanted to try it over the weekend. God knows how much he could have sold me over the years but instead I went to the second hand market so I wouldn't take an enormous hit if I didn't like it. He's out of business now.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 10:08:04 GMT
Sounds good but must be some way to go if it still isn't sounding better than your turntable Good for Mr T showing how a dealer should do things. My local dealer would not lend anything out even if you offered to deposit the full purchase price and only wanted to try it over the weekend. God knows how much he could have sold me over the years but instead I went to the second hand market so I wouldn't take an enormous hit if I didn't like it. He's out of business now. I haven't got a Phonostage at the minute so can't do a proper comparison, so I suppose I am judging from memory. I suspect it's probably a lot closer than I think.
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Post by macca on Dec 20, 2020 10:15:33 GMT
There should be some clear sky between the vinyl and the digital. There certainly was (for me anyway) in Marco's system and he's pretty much maxed out both.
Can't believe you don't have a phono stage right now. You design and build them!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 10:25:45 GMT
There should be some clear sky between the vinyl and the digital. There certainly was (for me anyway) in Marco's system and he's pretty much maxed out both. Can't believe you don't have a phono stage right now. You design and build them! I can't keep up with demand, mate. Seriously. So are you saying Marcos digital is better than his vinyl?
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Post by macca on Dec 20, 2020 10:30:18 GMT
In my opinion it was clearly better, not an opinion he shares though
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 10:35:27 GMT
In my opinion it was clearly better, not an opinion he shares though Hahaha And there is the rub. I'm not particularly interested in a Digital Vs Analogue contest in my system. I probably didn't make it as clear in my post, but what I was thinking was the Digital is closing the gap on vinyl, in terms of listenability and engagement. I haven't rushed to replace the Phonostage, which I think says an awful lot more than anything I can write, but I want to rebuild one as I know what pleasure awaits in vinyl. What has happened is that my once attitude of "digital is powdered milk in Analogues organic grass fed world" has now changed. Only good gear can do that.....so it must be good
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Post by macca on Dec 20, 2020 10:56:42 GMT
For me the important thing is that the rest of the system is optimised to play to the strengths of digital. Otherwise it's always going to be a disappointment compared to a serious vinyl set-up.
I won't forget the first time I managed that, that was the point were the scales fell from my eyes. Previously I had always been in the 'Vinyl is better, why are we even discussing this?' camp.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2020 11:35:34 GMT
For me the important thing is that the rest of the system is optimised to play to the strengths of digital. Otherwise it's always going to be a disappointment compared to a serious vinyl set-up. I won't forget the first time I managed that, that was the point were the scales fell from my eyes. Previously I had always been in the 'Vinyl is better, why are we even discussing this?' camp. What do you mean by "optimised" ? That's an interesting idea. Would you suggest my system is not geared towards Digital, or towards Digital? I have incredibly low THD in the amp & preamp and some of the most revealing speakers available (according to many). Do that aim for a system that is digitally optimised? Are valves and vinyl the synonymous pairing for vinyl? I know of a £200k plus system that uses valves on a DAC and uses low power valve monoblocks into horns. It's rather stunning... In fact, I struggle to find any problem with it. A joyous listen. So what is optimised? The creative juices are flowing.....
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Post by macca on Dec 20, 2020 11:53:19 GMT
I wish I really knew but my experience so far indicates:
Use amps and sources with very low noise and distortion - no reason you can't have that and still use valves ofc, depends how it's done. If the valves are just there to add colour, forget it. And it matters how the low distortion is achieved, no good just slotting in some spec-busting 1980s Jap amp. Not that simple.
Speakers good enough to show up all the low level details, with very low distortion (by speaker standards), so ideally not a two-way cone/dome speaker due to the IMD.
No additional gain stage between source and power amp - so no active pre-amps, use a passive/zero gain pre-amp or control volume digitally.
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