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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 8:57:01 GMT
Linky linky
What are peoples thoughts on these? I am not too keen on pure copper, as they will be soft, so I am looking for a good alternative, available in Europe, which will fit a holes with 19mm between centres.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 9:21:29 GMT
It is either these, or WBT 730.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 5, 2020 9:37:21 GMT
Linky linky
What are peoples thoughts on these? I am not too keen on pure copper, as they will be soft, so I am looking for a good alternative, available in Europe, which will fit a holes with 19mm between centres. Why is there this idea general misconception that "copper is too soft" in the Audiophile world? Have you tried squashing a copper Pipe by hand? It's not possible, and that's thin walled copper with a hole in the middle! There is absolutely no reason not to use those Viborg Binding posts. They are really well made, heavy duty and high quality. I have used them before, and I have just sent a set to Australia for a guys 686 and he loves them. Personally, I prefer direct gold on to copper plate, rather than gold on to silver like these. CMC make some: www.hificollective.co.uk/binding_posts/cmc-858lcu-gold-plated-long-speaker-terminals.htmlThey are long, as they don't sell the short version and you need a spacer if your chassis is less than 8mm thick, as the thread doesn't run all the way up. When I hard wired all of my connections as an experiment, the CMC connections were the closest to that level of performance I could find. They are 99% as good as having soldered joint.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 9:45:17 GMT
That is more to do with the shape, rather than the material. When servicing my car, I replace the sump plug washer. It is copper, and it crushes easily.
Copper is also really difficult to machine. On a flat surface, I am sure that some surface damage would be done when tightening up the connectors.
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Post by firebottle on Dec 5, 2020 10:06:39 GMT
Sounds like you have your engineering head on rather than your audiophile head Kevin
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 5, 2020 10:33:13 GMT
That is more to do with the shape, rather than the material. When servicing my car, I replace the sump plug washer. It is copper, and it crushes easily. Copper is also really difficult to machine. On a flat surface, I am sure that some surface damage would be done when tightening up the connectors. The binding posts are more than strong enough. I've been using pure copper plugs, binding posts and sockets for over 3 years on everything I build, and that's been a lot. I've never had anything strip, bend, break, loosen or fail. Up to you, but it's strength as a material is completely fine in this application IMO.
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Post by macca on Dec 5, 2020 10:55:29 GMT
If it is slightly malleable wouldn't that make for a better connection, i.e more surface area would be in contact?
I read somewhere = no idea if it is true - that your typical connecter only has about 5% contact because of the variations in surface level at the microscopic level.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 5, 2020 11:25:51 GMT
If it is slightly malleable wouldn't that make for a better connection, i.e more surface area would be in contact? I read somewhere = no idea if it is true - that your typical connecter only has about 5% contact because of the variations in surface level at the microscopic level. That's why chord made that Ohmic stuff. To make a better contact over a wider area, pressing the contacts together is much better ...... Hence why I prefer copper spades to bananas. But you do have to get a good grip on them as spades so and can come loose.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 11:33:41 GMT
Sounds like you have your engineering head on rather than your audiophile head Kevin I don't have an Audiophile head. Maybe I should ask Wurzel Gummidge if I can borrow his. I tend to use my enginears head.
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Post by rexton on Dec 5, 2020 12:04:22 GMT
+1 for CMC products. I do like WBT stuff but its pricey.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 12:54:36 GMT
If it is slightly malleable wouldn't that make for a better connection, i.e more surface area would be in contact? I read somewhere = no idea if it is true - that your typical connecter only has about 5% contact because of the variations in surface level at the microscopic level. May be I should look at the polished WBT connectors then? That will decrease the surface imperfections. The other thing is that I don't want to be cleaning them on a regular basis. I am too lazy for that... So, is gold plating on a malleable surface likely to stay in place? I have my doubts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 8:51:47 GMT
So, the expensive WBT posts are 68% copper. link
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 6, 2020 9:08:12 GMT
So, the expensive WBT posts are 68% copper. linkYup, When you start looking into these types of things it's quite surprising, isn't it.
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Post by rexton on Dec 6, 2020 9:51:01 GMT
Cardas make some decent pure copper stuff.
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Post by macca on Dec 6, 2020 10:17:40 GMT
So, the expensive WBT posts are 68% copper. linkThe WBT 0705Cu are 99.996% copper. 75 bucks a pop. 2 schools of thought 1) Do it once do it right 2) Let's not kid ourselves that this will make any difference whatsoever to the sound quality. I believe 2) but if it was my build I'd still go with 1)
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Post by karma67 on Dec 6, 2020 10:34:16 GMT
if i was that bothered about them being pure copper id nip down to b&q and gets some pipe and make my own spades.im with macca no.2 edit,whoops just spotted your not talking about speaker cable connection.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 10:36:46 GMT
I have gone for some Viborg pure copper, gold plated posts. I have done some reading, and they seem to be highly rated. They also exhibit at the high-end audio shows, so are likely to be real. Audiophonics used to sell CMC, but have stopped.
I didn’t want a lack of binding posts to stop my build.
I did buy some WBT nextgen pure copper, but they won’t fit the 19mm post spacing. Something I wish I had spotted before I got my case machined.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 11:12:49 GMT
So, the expensive WBT posts are 68% copper. linkThe WBT 0705Cu are 99.996% copper. 75 bucks a pop. 2 schools of thought 1) Do it once do it right 2) Let's not kid ourselves that this will make any difference whatsoever to the sound quality. I believe 2) but if it was my build I'd still go with 1) It will probably make bugger all difference, but in the grand scheme of things, €100 for a decent set of binding posts is not a big deal.
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Post by rexton on Dec 6, 2020 12:53:23 GMT
Cardas make some decent pure copper stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 13:19:05 GMT
They do indeed. Viborg looks ok as well.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 6, 2020 13:31:42 GMT
You won't go wrong with the Viborg.
I use loads of their gear and it's high quality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 13:48:26 GMT
I have Viborg XLR sockets as well. Kind of wish I went Viborg for the RCA as well, to have a nice matched look, but I will hardly ever see it, I hope.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 6, 2020 21:10:13 GMT
Sump plugs are copper, the spanner is cro-moly.
Your speaker posts are copper, so is your speaker wire.
Buy ones with a decent thread pitch on them not some 0.5mm pitch nonsense and they'll clamp down plenty tight.
I use the short silver cmc on my amps, no issue with 17 x 0.4mm wire.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 21:25:10 GMT
The sump plug washer is copper, but it is designed to deform to make a seal.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 7, 2020 22:53:41 GMT
Exactly, copper on copper wire is no issue, they're equally strong.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 19:08:13 GMT
They arrived today. They look, and feel nice. Time will tell if they are any good, but they are cheaper than a well known brand’s brass offerings.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 9:50:49 GMT
Another interesting point is the response time from the manufacturers.
I contacted ETI for some info, and had a rwsponse within a working day. I contacted WBT just after, and I am still waiting for a response.
I did not contact Viborg, but I guess it would have been a good idea to see their reactivity.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 10, 2020 10:18:08 GMT
Another interesting point is the response time from the manufacturers. I contacted ETI for some info, and had a rwsponse within a working day. I contacted WBT just after, and I am still waiting for a response. I did not contact Viborg, but I guess it would have been a good idea to see their reactivity. I contacted Neotech about their OCC RCA plugs in January.....still waiting
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