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Post by misterc on Jan 3, 2021 12:46:17 GMT
Martin
My fault, I as just as comparison to use where added noise is used to 'enhance' the sound or cancel out inadequacies at lower frequencies in 16 bit recordings the same way re quantizing the analogue signal has it's various methods of avoiding noise involved in that process. Back to Peter robbing Paul.
For Vinyl has also had that 'added something' that for a lot of people really identify with usually bigger staging and a so called warmth, if you ever get chance listen to a genuine 2nd gen master tape that puts things firmly into perspective.
The key with any good recording is understand your equipment, recording environment and mic placement for that particular event
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Post by macca on Jan 3, 2021 13:28:41 GMT
Martin For Vinyl has also had that 'added something' that for a lot of people really identify with usually bigger staging and a so called warmth, if you ever get chance listen to a genuine 2nd gen master tape that puts things firmly into perspective. been fortunate in that I have been able to listen to 1st gen masters and pre-mastering production mixes too, both in studios and in domestic set-ups. I don't think a lot of vinyl people would like the sound of the original (digital) masters as much. Psycho-acoustics again. A friend once brought round a new album he had just finished working on and we had a listen on my system, he said ' It sounds nothing like this in the studio.' Which forced me to confront what i already knew - that whilst the equipment I had gave me many hours of enjoyment it was not even a player in the 'accurate to the recording' stakes, and ultimately I got rid of all of it. |
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Post by sq225917 on Jan 3, 2021 13:52:13 GMT
Depth isn't an illusion if recorded in an ambient space, its when it's created in the mix that it's an illusion.
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Post by misterc on Jan 3, 2021 14:01:25 GMT
been fortunate in that I have been able to listen to 1st gen masters and pre-mastering production mixes too, both in studios and in domestic set-ups. I don't think a lot of vinyl people would like the sound of the original (digital) masters as much. Psycho-acoustics again. A friend once brought round a new album he had just finished working on and we had a listen on my system, he said ' It sounds nothing like this in the studio.' Which forced me to confront what i already knew - that whilst the equipment I had gave me many hours of enjoyment it was not even a player in the 'accurate to the recording' stakes, and ultimately I got rid of all of it. I would agree with your first statement 100% regarding vinyl guys though they generally prefer the presentation they have listened as their preference and for many years so that previous Big sound sticks in their mind for sure.
Fortunate to have controlling stakes in two recording studios and have the benefit of hearing first hand what is possible and what is physically released to the public large differences especially radio edits 
Simon's point of acoustic space is also correct if the performance has been correct recorded the ambient space in which it was recorded in should be present on the recording though how much of this you can recreate at home purely depends on your systems noise floor imho
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Post by hornucopia on Jan 20, 2021 12:35:43 GMT
I recall Lee Ritenour deliberately making a 'live' recording (not over dubbing etc) for this exact reason. I have a favourite - Oscar Aleman - from 30s/40s/50s where you know the musicians are crowded around one mike, but it still sounds great -even from transcribed 78s! In contrast Mariza on her self titled CD sounded so flat to me, with vocals recorded in one place, percussion in another, backing in a third....
Back to R2R. I use an MHDT 'Havana' dac.
Described by seller (I had a lesser one then) "
"This very unit convinced me to sell my Esoteric X-03se SACD/CD player. After the upgrades were installed the Havana thrashed the X-03 almost everywhere, with a noticeably more colourful mid and gorgeous top end. The one area that the '03 bettered it was in the bass depth and speed - but not by much (and we're talking about one of the best cd players in it's price range at £6000 here!)
This unique DAC was very extensively upgraded last year by our very own Earl of Sodbury at Wychwood Audionics - with higher spec (lower distortion) DAC chips, Mundorf Supreme caps, power supply upgrades, higher value caps and resistors throughout. I have also fitted a very rare 1950s JW Western Electric 2C51 valve - these alone fetch £40-50 on E-Bay. The valve sounds far nicer than the GE 5670 supplied by MHDT.
The standard Havana is already a highly-reviewed unit - the upgrades have brought superior clarity/insight, superb tonal colour. more detail and noticeably deeper/controlled bass. In fact i've never heard any NOS DAC that does bass like the Havana."
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The only reason I'm looking at the Soekris 1421 is the fact that it can run straight into a power amp. So-Oliver- how does it do? Any diminution in quality? Does it use an analog volume control, maybe?
I ask this because I was reading about the Aurelic Vega dac that has a (digital) volume control, BUT...it seems the quality dropped off when using it direct.
Also the Vega outputted 4 volts. I wondered if I'd get any useable control with 99/100 db sensitive horns or the Ocellias, via the Neurochrome 86 amp (or my Hafler DH200)
I'm attracted to the NOS concept, following the KISS principle of not messing too much with the sound.(So missing out a pre-amp.....)
Chris in Bristol
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Post by misterc on Jan 20, 2021 12:38:17 GMT
Oli uses his own buffered pre amp stage Chris
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Post by hornucopia on Jan 20, 2021 13:44:34 GMT
I'm sure, somewhere in these 9 pages, he mentioned going direct......
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Post by misterc on Jan 20, 2021 14:01:26 GMT
Chris
That would not allow him to use his own pre stage which is pretty damn good.
I will be honest here I have only listened to a couple of dac/cd/processors that have have quality i/v output stages in that you would not wish to use a dedicated pre amp and those were well into five figures.
You can use pre much any dac/pre and get good results that not what I am saying. The days are coming where a source/pre will be genuinely good enough for those uncompromising in SQ. But just not quite yet imho
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Post by macca on Jan 20, 2021 18:10:48 GMT
with that set up I'd stick with the pre-amp Chris. ideally for using the DAC as a pre you want one with very low noise and distortion as you're going to lose dynamic range the more you lower the volume. If it has high signal to noise ratio you don't lose anything worth losing but NOS dacs don't have high enough SNR so if you don't run them at full output you might well lose subtle details into the noise floor.
The Soekris is a borderline case I suppose but Ollie says he was not keen on the results with it as a pre-amp.
don't go for a DAC with an analogue volume pot unless you're sure the pot isn't some 10p bit of noisy tat.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 20, 2021 18:12:13 GMT
Yes, went direct when my preamp threw a wobbly.
The Soekris has a decent preamp section but I much preferred it via the AWM buffer preamp. There was much improvement to soundstage depth with it in.
I felt it was a little flatter with the Soekris BUT its way better than most people would realise.
The Soekris is a winner in book.
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Post by hornucopia on Jan 20, 2021 19:26:18 GMT
Am surprised that no one has said 'So-Chris it has your name on it'! I only have one pre-amp, but two systems-as in CD/iPod cradle into....... then either Neurochrome 86, Pass F3 or Hafler DH200 modded., into Ocellia Calliopes (or Opera Horns if I choose.) the idea -eventually - is to reduce to ONE set-up, so I was trying to avoid getting more equipment, as in Pre-amp and/or dac. I know; I have too many amps!(And speakers)
But, Oli-I'd have it.......if ever.....
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 20, 2021 19:28:02 GMT
Am surprised that no one has said 'So-Chris it has your name on it'! I only have one pre-amp, but two systems-as in CD/iPod cradle into....... then either Neurochrome 86, Pass F3 or Hafler DH200 modded., into Ocellia Calliopes (or Opera Horns if I choose.) the idea -eventually - is to reduce to ONE set-up, so I was trying to avoid getting more equipment, as in Pre-amp and/or dac. I know; I have too many amps!(And speakers)
The Soekris would be a fixture. |
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Post by hornucopia on Jan 20, 2021 19:28:56 GMT
...as is my Havana.
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Post by hudz on Jan 23, 2021 14:37:53 GMT
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Post by mikeyb on Jan 23, 2021 17:43:50 GMT
Just to let everyone know that's a 1321, same seller sold a Topping D90 last week, wonder what's he has next week 😊 |
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Post by hudz on Jan 23, 2021 17:59:54 GMT
Ooops my bad, swore it said 1421.
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Post by electronumpty on Jan 23, 2021 19:04:21 GMT
He still has a d90 and a few othwr dacs , lots of headphones 🎧 too.
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Post by hornucopia on Jan 23, 2021 21:29:58 GMT
Just to let everyone know that's a 1321, same seller sold a Topping D90 last week, wonder what's he has next week 😊 Tempting. loooks as if its the same (as 1421) but no headphone outlet, which is no big deal. will investigate! Though it was only 420euros new! Still, no vat etc which applies now, as Oliver knows.
Chris
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 23, 2021 22:36:12 GMT
Just to let everyone know that's a 1321, same seller sold a Topping D90 last week, wonder what's he has next week 😊 Tempting. loooks as if its the same (as 1421) but no headphone outlet, which is no big deal. will investigate! Though it was only 420euros new! Still, no vat etc which applies now, as Oliver knows.
Chris
Is that the one that's powered externally? |
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Post by mikeyb on Jan 23, 2021 23:46:38 GMT
5v PSU for 1321 but tech spec looks lower than 1421
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 24, 2021 0:11:15 GMT
5v PSU for 1321 but tech spec looks lower than 1421 Yes, I agree. Better with a 1421........like mine lol |
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Post by hornucopia on Jun 8, 2021 11:42:21 GMT
1321 for sale AOS.....but at £450?
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 8, 2021 12:23:26 GMT
1321 for sale AOS.....but at £450? It's been bought by a member here. Remember, €420 is without VAT or postage. |
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Post by firebottle on Jun 8, 2021 17:20:42 GMT
Bought at less than £450.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 8, 2021 19:33:03 GMT
Bought at less than £450. Ah, excellent news. |
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Post by antonio on Jun 8, 2021 23:23:54 GMT
Have you bought it Alan?
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Post by antonio on Nov 13, 2021 12:47:01 GMT
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Post by firebottle on Nov 13, 2021 13:08:54 GMT
That's a bit steep!
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Post by rrrumble on Mar 18, 2024 18:39:57 GMT
Hmmm.... your review only partially acknowledges break-in and warm up time. I own a Soekris 1421and noted it took about a week of being plugged in and regularly played (I left it playing overnight with the amp volume lowered) before the sound quality and signature began to fully settled in.
Not sure I can entirely trust your reviews even though you have the panache to write them well. Please spend more time evaluating break in time for electronics and cables so you can provide better reviews.
I thank you if you will take this to heart and improve your abilities to discern factors that affect sonic reproduction by cables and electronics.
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Post by rexton on Mar 18, 2024 18:56:43 GMT
I thank you if you will take this to heart and improve your abilities to discern factors that affect sonic reproduction by cables and electronics. Do you really think that's going to happen when we can't even properly determine if "break-in" actually exists? Moreso trying to define the period when these amazing changes are supposed to happen.  |
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