Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2020 19:38:38 GMT
The last 12 months has been a rather unsettled time in terms of Cartridges. My beloved Kontrapunkt-b went to the great resting place in the sky after it arrived at Kilian Bakker’s Holistic Audio for the Vienna mods. Then, the replacement HA103-SEL lasted less than 7 months in the system before it went off the rails.
To my horror and with less than 24hrs to go before I unwrapped my new vinyl shaped presents (Birthday gifts) my HA103-SEL became unlistenable.
I had to make an emergency purchase and with no delivery time available to enable me to make a purchase on the used market and bring the joy of vinyl to take place on my birthday, I needed to make a decision and the only way to make anything happen was to use a dreaded DEALER!
Up stepped Audio Affair in Birmingham.
And to be honest, they totally stepped up. “No collections, no store visits without an appointment” greeted me on the website. However the call i gave them proved fruitful and they agreed that i could collect any cartridge i chose from their warehouse if i followed strict Covid-19 measures. Obviously, I did not object.
The Goldring Ethos was not a cartridge I had been looking for. In fact, the last Goldring I owned was a 2100 Moving Magnet back in my dark days of belt driven, Rega motored Inspire Quest Turntables. It wasn’t really dark...it was a fantastic combo in all honesty. Seriously, I loved it. Just prior to sending my Kb to Kilian I had seen a Goldrng legacy being sold off relatively cheaply. £500 vs the original RRP of £900
I didn't think too much of it at the time, but in my hour of need I had a quick scout to see if they were still available but found the Legacy had been replaced by the Ethos…..and Audio Affair had them in stock.
I took one home………
Installation was very straightforward. Captive threads make life SO easy but Azimuth proved a bit trickier as the bottom of the cartridge is rounded with only 5mm of flat surface at the bottom to work with. However, after 2 days of fettling, I finally got everything spot on….i think.
0 - 10 hours:
Things actually started off pretty well. The GR obviously sounded leaner, maybe lightweight in comparison to the HA103, but not so far as to cause instant buyer regret. But soon things took a turn….The very small rations of bottom end this cart was delivering suddenly vanished and things got very lean and toppy. I won’t lie, i was worried.
I know cartridges sometimes do this and my past experiences have taught me not to panic, but at 9 hours in….i was panicking. So much so that i revisited the setup. I readjusted the Azimuth slightly and WHAM….i must have lucked out and hit the sweet spot as the mid came back in minutes. Odd, but that's what happened.
10 - 25hrs
With the Mids now sounding slightly fuller, but still WAY off being fleshy, i was wracking my brains as to what else i could change/try to flesh things out a bit. I regretted selling my Spotfire Speaker Cables…...Then I recalled I had some Telefunken PCC88’s in the drawer. Proper Berlin made ones rather than the Siemens made ones i had been using. I put one in and had a listen. Huge improvement to Timbre and tonal accuracy. There was a richening of tone which move the cartridge much closer to believability. It needed this.
The GR had from the very beginning shown all the intention it had of being a detailed and totally transparent performer, but it had lacked a little communication. Unable to convey those little bits of magic that make you do involuntary “OH!” or “hmm” noises when something hits a note in your soul. At about 20hrs in, and in the middle of Hans Theessink’s “Build Myself a home” it felt like something had changed.
The guitars started to pop and twang, the vocals started to resonate with me and the harmonic frequencies that were entwined between he and Terry’s vocals started to move towards a more throaty sound. Gruff and low, detailed but highlighted as separate entities.
The GR was now not only detailed, it was getting emotive. Poking at the strings in my heart.
Excellent i thought…..now i can see what it’s made of.
25hrs - Onward
I started to move through my collection of favourites and on pretty much everything, it sounded utterly neutral. Sometimes that had me hankering for the HA103-SEL, other times it had me thinking the HA103-SEL had over egged the pudding so much it became scrambled eggs. I decided to try a few different LP’s and in particular Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the moon.
I like this album, rather than love it but it had something I could never fix…. Distortion at the end of both sides of the LP. A poor pressing, I had no doubt.
No cartridge I have ever had here has managed to navigate the “wailing wench” (as I call her) without making me want to pull my ears off. This i thought would see how bad i can make the GR sound……..wrong.
Landing like a kick in the knackers from an angry mule came the realisation that the GR was not sounding distorted. In fact I played Side B about 5 times and at every listen I couldn't hear any difference in sound quality from the first track to last. I was quite puzzled. I played side A and again…..it remained consistent from start to finish. This led a crazed attack on every “poor pressing” i thought i owned and guess what…..the GR just cruised across the surface. Completely unfazed by anything I threw at it. It’s a tracking demon! I am pretty sure it would stay in the groove if i turned the SP10 upside down! (i jest of course)
So how important is the sound quality Vs doing the job it was supposed to do?
This posed a serious question I had never asked of myself. What sacrifices would one be willing to make in order to have this level of distortion free playback?
Well, as I continue to listen on, it seems like the sacrifices are diminishing. Sure, I can't claim to instantly have loved what the GR did in my system. The jump from the HA103-SEL to the GR was like a leap from the hot tub into an ice bath. The contrasts were quite stark in truth, but giving the GR time to bed in and listening to it so as to unravel what it can do is proving to be a wise decision.
The GR is mega detailed. Possibly more detailed than anything i have heard previously. Tonally, it's just starting to get it right. The sort of music i like most is all about the little textures, details and acoustic space. This is now pretty much nailing it. Throwing on some Thin Lizzy shows that it's very immediate and fast sounding. The vital-line stylus is extremely quiet in the grove and this makes the soundstage (the limited soundstage i have) seem more expansive. There is less bleed into other sections of the performance. I am confident that the GR is entirely accurate. I can't’ hear any embellishment or “extra fullness” being added and due to this it could be described as sounding quite dry, but I would disagree with that. It’s ultra clean and precise. A trait I really like.
It's not a hard hitter. Drums don't fly out of the speaker with dangerous intent etc, but it's all a lot cleaner. Attack and decay is superb.
Channel separation is very deliberate too. Only a couple of cartridges have been here and managed to match its veiled free presentation and they are both considerably more money and one is unobtainium. This is a grown up’s cartridge. There is a sophistication...a maturity and professionalism about the sound quality. Refinement and finesse in bucket loads. If you want to know what is hidden in your grooves, you could do a lot worse than this cartridge, for a lot more money.
I really rate this cartridge extremely highly.
In comparison to the HA103-SEL, it’s a different world in terms of tonal richness etc. The HA103-SEL had all the heft and beef of a standard 103, lumps of bass and midrange warmth but with a lot more refinement and detail thanks to the Ogura stylus and Kilian’s trade secrets.
Some may suggest the GR’s ability to dig out swathes of detail I haven't heard before make it a true High End cartridge, I would absolutely agree but you need to be slightly cautious.
If the GR goes into an overly lean system your ears may dislodge themselves, but if you have a well balanced system and are willing to wait out the early listening, this cartridge would not disgrace itself at any price I feel.
What it will do is give you a barrier free listening experience, and if one makes it into your system you can rest knowing it’s not going to be the weak link in the chain.
At twice the price, it’s undervalued IMO.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 12, 2020 19:45:01 GMT
Great review Oli, David at Goldring makes and repairs great cartridges. Have you investigated loading options yet?
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Post by brian2957 on Oct 12, 2020 20:17:01 GMT
Excellent write up Oli . So pleased it's doing the biz for you
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Post by jimbo on Oct 12, 2020 20:32:33 GMT
Great review Oli, enjoyed reading the journey so far.
As its so new it may have even more to give in a week or so?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2020 20:34:18 GMT
Great review Oli, David at Goldring makes and repairs great cartridges. Have you investigated loading options yet? Not yet The instructions suggest 100R, which is what I have in, but I'd like a bit more heft so may try something a little later this week. I wanted to make sure it was run in so the variables were mainly eliminated.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2020 20:34:55 GMT
Excellent write up Oli . So pleased it's doing the biz for you Thanks Brian. It's certainly getting there.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2020 20:36:55 GMT
Great review Oli, enjoyed reading the journey so far. As its so new it may have even more to give in a week or so? I'd suggest so. Even after a couple of hours today I felt the midband was beginning to get some "feel" I don't want it to go too far though because at the minute it's so transparent that I would be concerned about losing that open window type of sound. I'd love you to hear it Jim, but with Wolverhampton now on Level 2 of C19 restrictions, it may not be for a while.
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Post by electronumpty on Oct 12, 2020 22:40:50 GMT
wailing wench 🤣🤣🤣
Glad you like it mate.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 13, 2020 8:41:09 GMT
A Goldring MC with good highs and leaner bass? Wow, I wish them luck with it, but bear in mind an OC9 with similar tip is cheaper, if a bit 'common'
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 13, 2020 9:41:22 GMT
A Goldring MC with good highs and leaner bass? Wow, I wish them luck with it, but bear in mind an OC9 with similar tip is cheaper, if a bit 'common' I've heard and had an OC9 MkII & III in my system on many occasions Dave, and i can tell you this: A Goldring Ethos it aint! I mean, C'mon......The OC9 is a very budget firnedly MC. It's also a decent player, but i am talking of the Ethos as a real high class player. In the same catagories as the big boys. Somewhere the OC9 doesnt dare venture. Think of it like this...... The OC9 is like a pint of someones homebrew. Tastes ok-sh, maybe a bit rough...tbf, buts it's cheap and it gets you pissed, but there always a downside and that'll be the shits you get from it the next day. The Goldring Ethos is like a well matured Whisky. 25 years old, single malt. It's smooth, refined and the taste is divine. Next day you won't have the shits, becuase you drank the good stuff....but had to pay for it. It'll still get you drunk....but you will enjoy the journey there far more.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 13, 2020 17:53:14 GMT
The OC9 amortised its tooling costs decades ago and they're made in huge numbers, hence it's lower price, so with respect, you wouldn't be so derogatory about it back then when it was new with a story to tell PLEASE don't listen with your wallet here. OC9 tooling now covers a range of models with different cantilevers and tips, made in hundreds at a time, eternally popular and little to no tooling costs to bother about after all this time, so prices are very low and consistency high. Goldring probably make a handful of these in a batch and I suspect a lot of man hours to build and fine tune them. Does your better half know how much it cost I wonder S'alright, I shan't tell her Me? I'll quietly lust after a Lyra and a suitable arm able to exploit it best - different world again and totally MAD money!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 13, 2020 19:22:41 GMT
The OC9 amortised its tooling costs decades ago and they're made in huge numbers, hence it's lower price, so with respect, you wouldn't be so derogatory about it back then when it was new with a story to tell PLEASE don't listen with your wallet here. OC9 tooling now covers a range of models with different cantilevers and tips, made in hundreds at a time, eternally popular and little to no tooling costs to bother about after all this time, so prices are very low and consistency high. Goldring probably make a handful of these in a batch and I suspect a lot of man hours to build and fine tune them. Does your better half know how much it cost I wonder S'alright, I shan't tell her Me? I'll quietly lust after a Lyra and a suitable arm able to exploit it best - different world again and totally MAD money! Dave.....I really don't know if you read the words i type or just fill inbetween the words with what you think? I wasn't being derogatory about the OC9, i was being honest. There is a distinct difference. If you think the OC9 is a top class cartridge, there is no helping you. It's certainly not crap but there are clear differences in ability when you start putting it up against the Vienna's, the HA103-SEL's, the ZYX's and the Ethos, Which i have!!! There is Only one "TOTL" cartridge i ever heard that i would dump for a OC9, and thats the Denon DL-S1. Of all the Denons i used, and i tried all of them through the range, the best one was the 301mk2..... by far I have had to buy, try and sell almost every piece of kit that's been through this house, and believe me, if the OC9 had landed here and knocked me off my feet, i would have kept it! I have used AT95e up to ART7, Goldring Electra up to Goldring Ethos, Ortofon Rondo red up to Ortofon Vienna, Zyx R50 up to Zyx R100 Yatra, Denon 103R up to Denon DL-S1, Multiple Decca's........the list goes on. I have tried every single cartridge i can get my hands on and when i say "it's good, but a bit rough around the edges", i think i have auditioned enough cartridges to make that call based on performance alone! I don't make opinions based on money, cost or prestige. I use kit no one has heard of so pride of ownership and brand envy is certainly not something i experience. As for the wife, Who do you think told me to go and get it?! She knows everything i get up to and always has.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 13, 2020 19:32:16 GMT
Here you go Dave, have a listen to this:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 19:51:56 GMT
Sounds no different to an OC9.
But then I am listening to it on an iPad.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 13, 2020 20:57:29 GMT
Sounds no different to an OC9. But then I am listening to it on an iPad. Hahaha
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Post by electronumpty on Oct 13, 2020 21:13:35 GMT
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 14, 2020 12:16:25 GMT
Oli, that actually sound better than many trade show videos.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 14, 2020 13:56:40 GMT
Oli, that actually sound better than many trade show videos. Thank you, Simon. Things have changed significantly here since you visited last.....like the mic quality on my phone lol Although the nucleus of the equipment is largely the same, the BT2 Preamp has made a significant step forward in opening up the sound, as well as improving fluidity and transparency. The Spotfire MK2 are also quite a move away from the MK1, although i know you arent a cable guy. The biggest change has been the attention to detail in the BB3 and the rewards that has brought with it. I am going to have to get you to listen to it again as it's so far removed from the one i had when you visited. I am quite embarrassed over that one in hindsight, but i knew no better at the time. All part of the learning! the Goldring is the real deal.....100% convinced after this mornings listening.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 14, 2020 15:34:44 GMT
Sounds awesome keep doing what you're doing.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 14, 2020 17:32:10 GMT
Sounds like the sort of recordings I used to hear at HiFi shows very 'rounded' tone and the energy of the real instrument lost in reverb (I daren't say the cartridge as it's the recording I think). You love it and can put up with those huge speakers a very few feet apart - you're a very lucky man able to get away with it The OC9 has a ruler flat response which then rises over 8 - 9kHz by two or three db so may sound thin and strung out to some. Lyra's (and maybe ZYX but can't verify) do similar but with a 'stronger' presentation which I love personally and I suggest it's to get better sound from apparently softer Japanese vinyl. The AT33 PTG in current trim seemingly has a surprising falling hf response more like an old fashioned MM and no wonder opinions of these two models are polarised. I've only seen one response plot of an Ethos and it's pretty good and not too far from flat in fairness, but definitely not hf bright from what I could see. I'm making these comments to put me more in your perspective as it's only words on a page.
How did you come by this one as I didn't think it was very well known compared to the usual suspects
I'll stick to me Garrott Decca Microscanner thanks as I've owned this since 1989 and it's only had a hundred hours or so since I bought it (plus a repair by the Decca chap in 2009 or so after fifteen years in a drawer faulty). With the 401 deck and unipivot arm that's coming and if the rumble can be contained and also if the cartridge stays stable, there'll be no need for anything else for me as I know how good it can be in comparison with the source master once in a system it likes - that suits me if nobody else of course.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 14, 2020 18:14:25 GMT
This is the official one.. But don't forget, that ±2db is absolute worst case scenario.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 14, 2020 18:37:17 GMT
Sounds like the sort of recordings I used to hear at HiFi shows very 'rounded' tone and the energy of the real instrument lost in reverb (I daren't say the cartridge as it's the recording I think). You love it and can put up with those huge speakers a very few feet apart - you're a very lucky man able to get away with it The OC9 has a ruler flat response which then rises over 8 - 9kHz by two or three db so may sound thin and strung out to some. Lyra's (and maybe ZYX but can't verify) do similar but with a 'stronger' presentation which I love personally and I suggest it's to get better sound from apparently softer Japanese vinyl. The AT33 PTG in current trim seemingly has a surprising falling hf response more like an old fashioned MM and no wonder opinions of these two models are polarised. I've only seen one response plot of an Ethos and it's pretty good and not too far from flat in fairness, but definitely not hf bright from what I could see. I'm making these comments to put me more in your perspective as it's only words on a page.
How did you come by this one as I didn't think it was very well known compared to the usual suspects
I'll stick to me Garrott Decca Microscanner thanks as I've owned this since 1989 and it's only had a hundred hours or so since I bought it (plus a repair by the Decca chap in 2009 or so after fifteen years in a drawer faulty). With the 401 deck and unipivot arm that's coming and if the rumble can be contained and also if the cartridge stays stable, there'll be no need for anything else for me as I know how good it can be in comparison with the source master once in a system it likes - that suits me if nobody else of course. This explains more to me about why we don't agree on anything, than any amount of conversation ever would. I understand who you are now, Dave.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 14, 2020 21:45:31 GMT
+/- 1db, tsssskkk
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 14, 2020 21:55:26 GMT
+/- 1db, tsssskkk Cor blimey! My cartridge must be shite, I'd better sell it !!!! Lol.....
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 14, 2020 22:05:45 GMT
Look at it the other way Oli, its half as good as mine for much less than half the dosh. Win.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 14, 2020 22:14:03 GMT
Look at it the other way Oli, its half as good as mine for much less than half the dosh. Win. Haha, I'll take it
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Post by da2222 on Oct 18, 2020 20:00:06 GMT
Hi Oli
What happened with the HA103-SEL??
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Post by mikeyb on Oct 18, 2020 21:12:13 GMT
Hi Oli What happened with the HA103-SEL?? It’s away to the doctors 😉
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 18, 2020 21:37:40 GMT
Hi Oli What happened with the HA103-SEL?? Hi Drew, Truth be told, I don't know what happened. I noticed a thickening of the midrange, probably about 4 weeks ago. Then gradually sibilance started to creep in but I thought I'd knocked the setup out of kilter as I changed cables a few times. However even with Angus resetting the whole setup, the Sibilance just carried on until it became overbearing. I have yet to send it off to Killian to find out whats going on, but my gut tells me the stylus is fubar. Not sure what else it could be. But I will send it........maybe, or maybe I will just flog it as is. I'll see.
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