Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2020 23:53:17 GMT
Hang on a mo. Sorry to upset the apple cart but my mates had Jap turntables like these circa 1980 and they sounded a bit naff. All I'm saying is listen ... don't just plump for the looks .😕 Your mates had ¥3m (£22k used price) japanese only released Turntables? You do know who designed and built this one? The man is legendary....worldwide. Introduce me to your mates lol Audio Technica gave him fortunes ($3m) to design turntables. Trouble was CD was just exploding and they never marketed any of his designs. This one in the as is likely to be rather rare..... www.teragaki-labo.co.jp/ |
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2020 4:39:05 GMT
Hang on a mo. Sorry to upset the apple cart but my mates had Jap turntables like these circa 1980 and they sounded a bit naff. All I'm saying is listen ... don't just plump for the looks .😕 Bland and sterile - some were almost CD like which maybe a good or bad thing depending on whether you like CD?
I might get some rotten cabbages thrown at me here but Jap turntables are very good if you want absolute control, speed accuracy and a neutral sound if that's your thang but if you want something a bit more 'analogue' and exciting look elsewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 4:42:21 GMT
I wouldn't have that given. Seriously. Antonio has £1000 or less, if he can get away with it. He can choose any number of ways to spend it. I don't know anything about Rega turntables these days. I just know them from years ago when there was the 2 and the 3. Last night I saw the original 2 (teak plinth R200 arm) which cost £89 I think and someone was wanting £700 for it. Rediculous. I imagine he could get something from their range. Brand new. Easy to use and no faff once set up. He asks how someone else would spend the money. I've given examples of how I might. Have to say, I couldn't consider spending £1000 on a turntable. Never mentioned my Pioneer being good, or otherwise. But Jamie's 590 was good enough for him, for a time. I got the 630 because it was faulty and nobody seemed to know what it was.I think it was £127. Last time I counted I think I had 21 turntables. Since then I've bought 3 more, 1 and 3/4 LP12s - oh, and a Technics SP15. Oh, and an Ariston RD40. I just like turntables. I'd like to make my own; arm too. Looking at something based on the Versa Dynamics from the 80s. Give me one of them and I would thank you. And he designed the Mission 774. Even the stand is iconic and betters anything else I've seen. www.psaudio.com/article/versa-dynamics/ |
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2020 5:15:35 GMT
Hang on a mo. Sorry to upset the apple cart but my mates had Jap turntables like these circa 1980 and they sounded a bit naff. All I'm saying is listen ... don't just plump for the looks .😕 Bland and sterile - some were almost CD like which maybe a good or bad thing depending on whether you like CD?
I might get some rotten cabbages thrown at me here but Jap turntables are very good if you want absolute control, speed accuracy and a neutral sound if that's your thang but if you want something a bit more 'analogue' and exciting look elsewhere.
I have to say, that's more of the sound I'm after, I've already owned an LP12 |
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2020 6:28:03 GMT
Bland and sterile - some were almost CD like which maybe a good or bad thing depending on whether you like CD?
I might get some rotten cabbages thrown at me here but Jap turntables are very good if you want absolute control, speed accuracy and a neutral sound if that's your thang but if you want something a bit more 'analogue' and exciting look elsewhere.
I have to say, that's more of the sound I'm after, I've already owned an LP12 If you want total control and neutrality then the SP10 is definitely the tool for the job. I do like the Pioneer PLC 590 and have heard this a few times, very impressive. I think a few folk on here have had them in the past. |
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Post by karma67 on May 8, 2020 6:36:11 GMT
I wouldn't have that given. Seriously. Antonio has £1000 or less, if he can get away with it. He can choose any number of ways to spend it. I don't know anything about Rega turntables these days. I just know them from years ago when there was the 2 and the 3. Last night I saw the original 2 (teak plinth R200 arm) which cost £89 I think and someone was wanting £700 for it. Rediculous. I imagine he could get something from their range. Brand new. Easy to use and no faff once set up. He asks how someone else would spend the money. I've given examples of how I might. Have to say, I couldn't consider spending £1000 on a turntable. Never mentioned my Pioneer being good, or otherwise. But Jamie's 590 was good enough for him, for a time. I got the 630 because it was faulty and nobody seemed to know what it was.I think it was £127. Last time I counted I think I had 21 turntables. Since then I've bought 3 more, 1 and 3/4 LP12s - oh, and a Technics SP15. Oh, and an Ariston RD40. I just like turntables. I'd like to make my own; arm too. Looking at something based on the Versa Dynamics from the 80s. Give me one of them and I would thank you. And he designed the Mission 774. Even the stand is iconic and betters anything else I've seen. www.psaudio.com/article/versa-dynamics/the plc-590 is a very good tt,i'd have another one again for sure,but for me the sony tts-8000 beats it,not by a large amount but it is better,the pioneer wins on looks though its a stunner. £500 for the 630 seems a good price,the arm used is not a pa-5000 though,its a look-a-like. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 7:11:50 GMT
No. The arm on the 630 isn't a PA 5000. Some parts are common, but they're not the same. My 630 came with the Audio Technica AT20SLa top-notch cartridge. Sadly, it had no stylus. The cartridge body was worth more than what I paid for both.
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2020 9:24:57 GMT
Ok, the turntables I've been looking at will involve between 300 and 500 mile return journeys. 10 mile away is a Pioneer PLC 590 priced at £1300 but bids. How much do you think this turntable is worth, the arm would cost £500+ from Japan. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264719267953 |
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Post by macca on May 8, 2020 9:50:40 GMT
Good decks but I wouldn't pay that much for one. Especially as it isn't in the piano black finish.
First time I heard one it was up against an SL1200 that had been set in concrete and fitted with a Terminator linear tracking arm. Even with a lesser cartridge fitted on the Technics there was no contest. The Pioneer was a pleasant listen but the modded Technics was architectural - massive soundstage, pin sharp imaging. Holographic, almost.
The second time it was up against another modded Technics, although this time with a normal tonearm - again, no contest.
In the black finish it does look a million dollars though and the Technics decks didn't. Especially the concrete one.
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Post by gninnam on May 8, 2020 9:55:06 GMT
Jeez, that first TT is soooo ugly....... may sound good but you'd have to be a pimp or drug lord to have that in your house (or crib)....... |
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2020 9:59:01 GMT
Good decks but I wouldn't pay that much for one. Especially as it isn't in the piano black finish. First time I heard one it was up against an SL1200 that had been set in concrete and fitted with a Terminator linear tracking arm. Even with a lesser cartridge fitted on the Technics there was no contest. The Pioneer was a pleasant listen but the modded Technics was architectural - massive soundstage, pin sharp imaging. Holographic, almost. The second time it was up against another modded Technics, although this time with a normal tonearm - again, no contest. In the black finish it does look a million dollars though and the Technics decks didn't. Especially the concrete one. Thanks for your honest opinion, I was very tempted. |
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Post by karma67 on May 8, 2020 10:00:05 GMT
Ok, the turntables I've been looking at will involve between 300 and 500 mile return journeys. 10 mile away is a Pioneer PLC 590 priced at £1300 but bids. How much do you think this turntable is worth, the arm would cost £500+ from Japan. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264719267953thats been on and off for a while,what puts me off is its been painted,they only came in black,the plinth is cast aluminium and it makes me wonder whats under the paint,has it been dropped etc? you've also got to ask why orange too? it looks awful imo. its not a uk model too if that bothers you and for reference i sold my plc-590 for £1600 but that was with the top of the line at the time pa-5000 tonearm.
they are up for a deal too,i reckon £1200-1400 would get it. but at that price you could go for an angus's sp10 special which considering its been upgraded and renewed really is a no brainer.
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2020 15:54:45 GMT
Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions and help on this thread, it's been very enjoyable for me looking at different tt's again and reading up on them. It would be so easy to go well over budget, just look at what's out there and at good prices too. Today I've spoken to Ant at BTE and he has a Lenco, his teardrop style one for those that have followed any of his threads, and he has been kind enough to let me borrow it and see how I get on. He just has to make up a Rega armboard, which he told me he has been promising to do for a while, I will hopefully collect it next week. I will keep the PT and maybe one day take it to True Point and have them service it. I will of course update this thread with my thoughts on the Lenco.
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2020 16:34:42 GMT
Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions and help on this thread, it's been very enjoyable for me looking at different tt's again and reading up on them. It would be so easy to go well over budget, just look at what's out there and at good prices too. Today I've spoken to Ant at BTE and he has a Lenco, his teardrop style one for those that have followed any of his threads, and he has been kind enough to let me borrow it and see how I get on. He just has to make up a Rega armboard, which he told me he has been promising to do for a while, I will hopefully collect it next week. I will keep the PT and maybe one day take it to True Point and have them service it. I will of course update this thread with my thoughts on the Lenco. I did not think you would look at the Lenco but as many of us on here have them there must be something about them that sounds right. 
What arm comes with the BTE Lenco?
Great choice BTW |
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Post by antonio on May 8, 2020 17:05:23 GMT
I will be using my AO Rega 250, but IF a used Audiomods came along I could be tempted. When speaking to Ant, I did say my lean and mean might have been an exaggeration, I just didn't want that woolly bass I got with the LP12. His reply was he felt I'd be ok with the Lenco since that was his major dislike of the Linn.
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Post by gninnam on May 8, 2020 17:16:31 GMT
With the Lenco's, depending on the plinth material, weight and size you can tailor the sound to how you like it.
Change the feet, cartridge, arm etc and anything is possible!
15 years ago, everyone was raving about using the Lenco in slate - for me it always seemed to miss something. My ears always approved of either the stock sprung plinth or a nice solid ply plinth (yeah go figure).
Ant's Lenco plinths are really good (if you get to go in his house make sure he slaps on some tunes as his home brew speakers are very good) so I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2020 19:44:31 GMT
With the Lenco's, depending on the plinth material, weight and size you can tailor the sound to how you like it. Change the feet, cartridge, arm etc and anything is possible! 15 years ago, everyone was raving about using the Lenco in slate - for me it always seemed to miss something. My ears always approved of either the stock sprung plinth or a nice solid ply plinth (yeah go figure). Ant's Lenco plinths are really good (if you get to go in his house make sure he slaps on some tunes as his home brew speakers are very good) so I think you will be pleasantly surprised! Andy when you say stock sprung plinth do you mean with original springs in situ or upgraded to some other sort?
I was just about to pop some new feet on my Lenco and get rid of the springs?
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Post by gninnam on May 8, 2020 20:57:48 GMT
I mean the original sprung plinth - if you dampen them with new foam and have it fully level they can sound really good.
That's why I said 'go figure' - the general consensus it to automatically ditch the standard plinth and go for heavy.
If you think about it, the Lenco guys knew what thy were doing so by making sure everything is tight and right then why shouldn't it work?
Don't get me wrong, heavy plinths work really well but as mentioned, all in what you want to hear as we are all different.
I think all us Lenco users should have a meet to compare what we have and see how they sound - all using the same phono, cart, speakers etc.
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Post by jimbo on May 8, 2020 21:13:50 GMT
I mean the original sprung plinth - if you dampen them with new foam and have it fully level they can sound really good. That's why I said 'go figure' - the general consensus it to automatically ditch the standard plinth and go for heavy. If you think about it, the Lenco guys knew what thy were doing so by making sure everything is tight and right then why shouldn't it work? Don't get me wrong, heavy plinths work really well but as mentioned, all in what you want to hear as we are all different. I think all us Lenco users should have a meet to compare what we have and see how they sound - all using the same phono, cart, speakers etc. Yes the Lenco engineers got so many parts right so I am sure they factored the sprung base correctly or they would not have bothered.
The heavy plinth route is I think a very different beast especially with a PTP?
A meet up to bake off Lencos would be fun. Just need to get rid of the virus first!
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Post by gninnam on May 8, 2020 21:37:27 GMT
Heavy plinth works well with either a normal or PTP to be honest (PTP guy Peter is a great guy - meat him and his family about 10 years back in Amsterdam) but the Lenco seems to work if fettled correctly in most situations. My last proper build included a massive plinth which then sat on a base of sand - worked really well but my last one using ply sounds brilliant - can be seen in my intro and blog. I will admit that the Leak Lenco with standard arm does a really good job of producing a very acceptable SQ, the birch ply plinth version with Linn arm is different (better but not a walk over) Keep yours as standard as you can then look to build another one using another plinth - then you will see Direct Drive TT's are awesome and has been mentioned on hear are built like tanks and last forever but the cost........ |
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Post by antonio on May 15, 2020 4:48:57 GMT
I'm going to pick up Ant's Lenco today. He's kindly fitted his Audiomods tonearm so all I have to do is fit my Lyra. Really looking forward to hearing this. When funds allow I might get the PT looked at by True Point, I'm sure it needs new springs and most probably chassis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 17:17:49 GMT
There may even be a Vector kit available for the PT.
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Post by antonio on May 16, 2020 13:35:54 GMT
Listened to a couple of albums already this morning, (KD Lang - Ingenue and Alison Krauss + Union Station - So Long So Wrong). What can I say, propulsive might be a starting point. Bass is very good and generally a little richer sounding than my PT with 250 AO. I have to say thoroughly enjoying it so far. Purchased this yesterday www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-1pcs-Flexi ... 2749.l2648 so I can use the strobe supplied with the Lenco. |
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Post by antonio on May 17, 2020 5:15:45 GMT
. Listened to vinyl most of yesterday and at the moment cannot see any downside. The last LP I played was Dark Side of the Moog - Schulze/Namlook and it sounded superb.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 10:10:54 GMT
Try to find Prodigy , Fat of the land.
That'll test yer !
Or Kasabian 10".
The bass is sub sonic and will amaze vinyl knockers who say you can't go deep on a record.
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Post by antonio on May 17, 2020 10:19:43 GMT
I've never found a shortage of bass using vinyl, who are these knockers?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 20:37:55 GMT
Quite a few people quote the bass extension of digital against vinyl.
Our old friend Andre was very vocal about it's lack of lower frequencies
I argue the point with many people that the only problem with vinyl and bass is that it has to be set up right.
Otherwise obviously those big bass groove deflections on the stylus can cause havoc.
.Personally I think vinyl bass is right and digital is excessive and not natural.
But I would wooden Eye ?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
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Post by Bigman80 on May 17, 2020 20:42:31 GMT
I think there can be an argument for Digital possessing the bragging rights for HF and LF extension, but I dont agree that bass suffers on vinyl.....
Set thine Vinyl up correctly, and thou shalt be rewarded...as the Lord of Punk and Vinyl say'th.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 0:15:19 GMT
It doesn't suffer.
Any musical bass sounds can be reproduced on vinyl.
But electronically digital bass can go lower. My argument is same as yours...any bass that vinyl can't handle is ie unnatural and therefore not musical bass but a digital sound anyway.
The argument the digifiles have is that these days an unnatural none musical instrumental digitally invented sub sonic bass IS MUSIC !
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