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Post by robbiegong on Mar 29, 2020 17:50:46 GMT
I'm aware of how critical the tonearm cable is said to be. Therefore my question is, what makes for an excellent tonearm cable ? I'm drawn to pure silver, so 6N etc - whats that about ? Then there's the diameter of the wires used which I believe should be small ? Shielding ? mindful this is silver so no oxygen... I've read that a 2,2 core cables is preferable over 1 4 core split into 2 at the rca end. Reply was - Yes In fact I would go further and suggest using a separate 2-core screened cable for each channel. The two cores will be connected to the 'hot' and 'cold' pins of each channel of the cartridge, with the screening connected to the arm metalwork along with a lead to connect to the metalwork of the TT. Don't connect the screening to anything at the plug end. Since most cartridges (but not all) are ostensibly balanced devices, using the above wiring layout allows you to use a phonostage with balanced inputs, should you so wish. It's a bit of a minefield, I know but I'd like to get things right when I get one done. The cable will have rca's both ends, with a ground centre pin, in between the two rca's at the tonearm end. Basically a bespoke version of one of these www.ebay.com/itm/174207789945 which fits into my Technics EPA-250 tonearm I know the knowledge is out there  |
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Post by jimbo on Mar 29, 2020 17:52:07 GMT
Hi Rob,
nice to see you here, hope your doing Ok?
Oliver has something pretty special I believe for a tonearm cable upgrade, I will let him yabber about it.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,399
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 29, 2020 18:00:40 GMT
Without sounding like I'm being an arse, Rob, you dont need a tonearm Cable..
Your Tonearm needs RCA to RCA cables due to the RCA type sockets on the arse-end of your arm base.
What makes it a PITA is how tight the space is to get decent plugs into it.
However, I have a seriously good idea about what may suits it and knowing your penchant for silver cable (Urgh!) I have even found a small gauge cable suitable for the space you have.
All I need, is a pic of the base of your arm and the model number and I'll have all the detail I need to put a price together.
Also, if it doesn't beat the arse off the cable you originally wanted, I'll eat my hat.
Wont be cheap, but it'll be worth it
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 29, 2020 18:06:31 GMT
Without sounding like I'm being an arse, Rob, you dont need a tonearm Cable.. Your Tonearm needs RCA to RCA cables due to the RCA type sockets on the arse-end of your arm base. What makes it a PITA is how tight the space is to get decent plugs into it. However, I have a seriously good idea about what may suits it and knowing your penchant for silver cable (Urgh!) I have even found a small gauge cable suitable for the space you have. All I need, is a pic of the base of your arm and the model number and I'll have all the detail I need to put a price together. Also, if it doesn't beat the arse off the cable you originally wanted, I'll eat my hat. Wont be cheap, but it'll be worth it  I'll get some pics or at least a link of the exact base to you Olster  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,399
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 29, 2020 18:07:18 GMT
Just for clarity, its got RCA sockets on the base..... Dont buy a tonearm cable, it wont fit! Also, unless you have balanced inputs on your Sansui, and you specifically want balanced you dont need a specific type of cable. I have a plan. As I said, d I have all the info I need. Drop me a message on the old WhatsApp and I'll talk you through it  |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 29, 2020 18:08:10 GMT
Hi Rob, nice to see you here, hope your doing Ok? Oliver has something pretty special I believe for a tonearm cable upgrade, I will let him yabber about it. Hey Jimbo ! I'm good thanks, hope you and yours are too. Nice to link you up, was wondering where you were  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 12:52:40 GMT
Hi Robbie
a tip is that if using MM, check what the capacitance loading recommended is as this will be made up of BOTH phonostage input loading and interconnect capacitance.
Silver or copper, either won't have any particular sound as such but a word of caution with silver. I've lost count of the number of silver wire terminated cables I've had to repair over the years All, at some point or other, corrode at the solder joint where exposed and break, mostly due to reaction with Hydrogen Sulphide naturally present in the air in small quantities.
Geometry and connector choice can and do affect sound.
For MM where standard input capacitance load provided by phonostages tends to be around 150pF and the average MM likes to see between 250 and 350pF loading means trying to limit cable capacitance to no more than 100 to 200pF total which for most 1.8m cables rules out twin core overall shield geometries. These these have a total capacitance of around 170 to 210pF/m. They're really too high in capacitance for the "short standard" 1.2m phono interconnects imho. Standard coax with a dense optical (preferably braided) ofc shield is the best geometry for MM. The better ones have a capacitance of no more than 65pF/m. Cheaper ones and thinner ones with the core and shield spaced more closely, can be up to 110pF/m. The ones I use are all 65pF/m.
Most RCA plugs have minimal capacitance...about 5pF per connector.
For lower noise floor and where the total load capacitance is not as much as an issue, twin core overall shielded, with the shield connected one end only, and using shielded all metal plugs (in both cases) tends to result in the best S/N performance as it reduces noise coupled to the signal.
Hope that helps
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Post by sq225917 on Mar 30, 2020 13:13:39 GMT
The wire between your tonearm and phonostage is the most critical one in your system. Take everything you believe about cable effects and multiply it by 1500 if you're using a low output MC cart.
I think this helps put the real world audibility of cable effects into perspective. If your mc output is 1500x lower in signal level than a line-level connection between other sources and pre-amp, then its 1500x more susceptible to the same
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 13:51:31 GMT
Absolutely, hence the definite requirement for shielding, and for best S/N, I would only ever recommend twin core overall shielded for MC phono use.
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Post by rexton on Mar 30, 2020 14:39:31 GMT
Hi Robbie a tip is that if using MM, check what the capacitance loading recommended is as this will be made up of BOTH phonostage input loading and interconnect capacitance. Silver or copper, either won't have any particular sound as such but a word of caution with silver. I've lost count of the number of silver wire terminated cables I've had to repair over the years All, at some point or other, corrode at the solder joint where exposed and break, mostly due to reaction with Hydrogen Sulphide naturally present in the air in small quantities. Geometry and connector choice can and do affect sound. For MM where standard input capacitance load provided by phonostages tends to be around 150pF and the average MM likes to see between 250 and 350pF loading means trying to limit cable capacitance to no more than 100 to 200pF total which for most 1.8m cables rules out twin core overall shield geometries. These these have a total capacitance of around 170 to 210pF/m. They're really too high in capacitance for the "short standard" 1.2m phono interconnects imho. Standard coax with a dense optical (preferably braided) ofc shield is the best geometry for MM. The better ones have a capacitance of no more than 65pF/m. Cheaper ones and thinner ones with the core and shield spaced more closely, can be up to 110pF/m. The ones I use are all 65pF/m. Most RCA plugs have minimal capacitance...about 5pF per connector. For lower noise floor and where the total load capacitance is not as much as an issue, twin core overall shielded, with the shield connected one end only, and using shielded all metal plugs (in both cases) tends to result in the best S/N performance as it reduces noise coupled to the signal. Hope that helps
Great post. I'd read this post very carefully. I paid no attention to my MM loading capacitance levels. It was only when fine tuning my system did I realise that it's really worthwhile making your sure your MM cart is "seeing" the correct level of capacitance. I got Firebottle to mod my EAR 834 clone with loading plugs so I could custom load each MM in my collection with the correct capacitance. My tonearm cable and RCA plugs are a known capacitance variable so for me now it's pretty easy to dial in the right capacitance for each cart. It's not a night and day difference but one that's definitely worthwhile pursing and it's once of these things that you can then remove of your check list when setting up your cart.
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 30, 2020 20:49:57 GMT
Thanks for the helpful comments gents. I'll be running an mc and defo read, heard and believe getting things right in terms of the connection between tonearm and phonostage is very important, hence the post. Like the majority of us, I'm a fussy b&gger when it comes to this stuf and just want optimal music accuracy and sonic rightness coming through, not distortion or additives as best i can help that  |
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I'll get some pics or at least a link of the exact base to you Olster 
