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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 13:30:46 GMT
Hifi of some variety has always been in my life but took off big time around 1992 when I was 14 years old. My Dad had just completed his MBA and as a treat for passing had his sights firmly on an Audiolab 8000a amplifier after having his Hifi eyes re-opened by a good friend who had a Sugden Amplifer and Mission 700 Loudspeakers. We used to listen to Dad's system (Yamaha CR-600 Receiver, Technics CD Player, Dual 601 Turntable and IMF ALS40 Loudspeakers) on a reasonably regular occurrence, but on one particular day whilst listening to Enya's album Watermark album, track 8 I remember vividly, something sounded amiss with the speakers, they sounded almost flappy in presentation which was somewhat off their usual sound… anyway to cut a long story down to a few words, the foam surround midrange driver on the left speaker had disintegrated in front of our very eyes… just disappeared and had left the speaker with this flappy sound which was rather unpleasant. Unwilling to repair the speakers, Dad used it as an opportunity to 'upgrade' them, so we both twaddled off to Uxbridge Audio and listened to a series of systems, but what we weren't fully aware of then but I guess I am now, the shop had a certain company pushing their products, Linn, so Dad ended up with a pair of Linn Nexus LS250 Loudspeakers and an Audiolab 8000a (new 1992 model)… The Audiolab easily did away with the contenders, apart from one, an Exposure X but that was second hand and more expensive so the Audiolab won the day. So anyway, onto my story… I was given Dad's Yamaha CR-600 and paired it with a Marantz CD65IISE which I purchased from the friend above who had the Sugden Amplifier and 1, yes, 1 working IMF ALS40… Next up, for Christmas, my parents bought me a pair of secondhand Wharfedale Diamond II Loudspeakers, although I harked after a pair of Diamond IV (See later system!). Dad upgraded to an Exposure pre and power combo with Epos ES-14's (See my later system) and he gave me his Audiolab 8000a for my 16th Birthday present which I mistakenly partnered with a pair of Rega Kyte Loudspeakers (replacing the Diamond II) having saved for them through a Saturday job, for a very short time, with the reasonably neutral Audiolab and bright sounding Marantz it just didn't work…. anyhow, my Dad at this point hadn't sold on the Linn's so I was keen to hear them in my system and room… ironically, the Linn's sounded better in that 10'x6' firing across the room than they ever had in the Lounge but Dad insisted on my buying them for £250 which was a lot of money I eventually saved up and was very happy. In around 1998-99 Dad decided to 'upgrade' once again to Naim amplification so I asked if I could buy the Exposure's from him, by this time having a full time job and being given one of them as my 21st Birthday present I managed to get the money together for the other reasonably quickly… then I upgraded the CD player to a Sony that again Dad had replaced with a Naim CDI (not the one I have now) and I enjoyed that system until the day Dad once again decided to upgrade the speakers to Kharma models and I was given the Epos on the condition any funds I got for the Linn's went to my sister, which seemed more than fair. In the early 2000's, I bought a second Exposure XVIII amplifier to bi-amp the system and my own Naim CDI which was in a lot better knick than Dad's and then went about gradually upgrading the cabling… Most recently I have done a complete overhaul of my system following the purchase of some Focal speakers on a whim that I couldn't get to work. With the current system they sound simply amazing and I couldn't be more thankful to Tony Sallis of Coherent Systems who helped me on my journey. So my current primary system which resides in the lounge is: Rega RP3 Turntable Rega RB303 Arm Audio Technica AT120E Cartridge Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Logitech Squeezebox Touch (EDO Module) modded Beresford Caiman SEG DAC Anker Astro Pro 2nd Gen Battery (DAC) Belles Aria - Integrated Amplifier Focal Electra 1028 Be Loudspeakers Creaktiv Trend 1 - Rack Beresford Coax Digital Interconnect (SB) Beresford Optical Digital Interconnect (CD) Rega Couple 2 Interconnect (TT) Coherent 5D Interconnect (DAC) Coherent 5D Speaker Cable MCRU No. 9 Power Cable (Amp) MCRU Ultimate Power Cable (CD) TCI Baby Constrictor 6 Way Power Block Original Black Ravioli (Amp & DAC) Original Stillpoints (CD) 
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 13:33:05 GMT
Note the speaker pictures were taken a while ago.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 26, 2018 14:18:08 GMT
I’ve almost bought an older Belles power amp a couple of times. It’s a make I never had a chance to hear. One day maybe. I love that rack, too. So many racks try to be different and end up ugly,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 14:22:59 GMT
What is the rrp of that integrated, Paul.
S.
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 14:27:37 GMT
What is the rrp of that integrated, Paul. S. £2300, Shane. Absolute bargain. |
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 14:27:55 GMT
I’ve almost bought an older Belles power amp a couple of times. It’s a make I never had a chance to hear. One day maybe. I love that rack, too. So many racks try to be different and end up ugly, I would seriously recommending looking into it, Belles make seriously good amps. They are quite popular in the states where they originate, but haven't quite taken off so well over here yet. The Creaktiv rack isn't bad, and it bettered my Audiophile BASE stand which cost 10x the price. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 14:43:01 GMT
What is the rrp of that integrated, Paul. S. £2300, Shane. Absolute bargain. If one ever pops up locally I'll give it a go. People have been describing this amp as having a rich/smooth musical sound. But without sacrificing detail. Sounds like my kind of amp! Is the transformer somewhere around the 400va region? S. |
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 14:50:19 GMT
Yes rich and smooth is a good way of describing it. It also has a grip over the speakers that I have not heard before in this price range or anywhere near it to be honest.
I think the standard is around 400va but I believe mine has an updated one at 600 or 800va.
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 15:44:36 GMT
More detail on the standard one here. I have a marginally modded one with a slightly more powerful power supply. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 15:56:59 GMT
Interesting that you should mention grip. I still have this prejudice about integrateds not being capable of gripping/driving speakers in the same way a pre/power can. The thing is, I lose all thoughts of this when it’s a valve amp. It’s daft and illogical, but it’s driven me to change amps when an integrated has been doing just fine.
Sure, if you have difficult or inefficient speakers, power may be a factor, but it’s nothing to do with being in one box or two. The preamp stages of integrateds these days are often passive anyway, so it’s more of a power amp with a volume control. I suspect it’s years of conditioning that I’m struggling to shake off.
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 21:13:14 GMT
Yes the grip this amp has surprises me on an ongoing basic, whilst being extremely smooth and producing massive amounts of detail.
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Post by macca on Jun 28, 2018 12:30:25 GMT
You were lucky to have an old man who was into hi-fi. We had nothing to play music on in our house. I bought an Aiwa midi system when I was 16 and got a Saturday job, and my younger brothers bought super-cheap systems from Richer sounds a couple of years later. Anyone remember those £40 Sanyo amplifiers they used to sell?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2018 14:53:15 GMT
Yes and they are pretty good. Way better than you’d expect. They look like crap, but I bought my sister the entire setup (as a present back in the 80s (the amp was a JA220). I worked for Richer Sounds then so I got trade on them. I had never fired them up in the shop. They were just sold from piles of boxes. My sister still uses that gear with a pair of Eltax Liberty 3s I gave her many years later, also from Richer Sounds. It all still looks like new and it sounds half decent with a technics DD as source..
Peter Belt actually tweaked a Sanyo and took it to a show. It was hidden from view and playing with a cheapie Richer sounds £30 CD player IIRC. It surprised a lot of people but the reports didn’t surprise me, having heard the amp.
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Post by macca on Jun 28, 2018 17:44:38 GMT
I remember the Belt Sanyo, that caused a little bit of a stir. One of my brothers had the Sanyo, without Belt mods  ) and yes it was good for the money. When were you with Richer Sounds then? I remember moaning to a mate at college that I couldn't afford a proper hi-fi - I'd been in a shop and their cheapest amp was a Rotel for £135. That was over my budget for the entire system. I went to Comet as according to their ads in the Liverpool Echo they had a whole load of separates around £40 each. 'Sorry son, we've nothing in stock.' Then this bloke told me about Richer Sounds - welcome to a lifetime of squandering money on hi-fi. That was back in 1988. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2018 18:26:53 GMT
I remember the Belt Sanyo, that caused a little bit of a stir. One of my brothers had the Sanyo, without Belt mods ) and yes it was good for the money. When were you with Richer Sounds then? I remember moaning to a mate at college that I couldn't afford a proper hi-fi - I'd been in a shop and their cheapest amp was a Rotel for £135. That was over my budget for the entire system. I went to Comet as according to their ads in the Liverpool Echo they had a whole load of separates around £40 each. 'Sorry son, we've nothing in stock.' Then this bloke told me about Richer Sounds - welcome to a lifetime of squandering money on hi-fi. That was back in 1988. I was there throughout 86 and most of 87. I worked in the first Newcastle store until it closed. I then worked in Leeds and Edinburgh stores before opening and running the York one. By that time I had the hifi bug bad. Passing the Sound Org every day had a lot to do with it. I went to work in a “proper” BADA shop for about half the money and with no autonomy. I loved the gear but missed the responsibility. Soon after, they got into AV/TV and I flatly refused to sell any of it. That was the end of my career in hifi  Richer Sounds are a great company, I haven’t a bad word to say about them. My mate works for them now. It’s a different world but they are still the good guys of hifi. If only I’d realised that sooner |
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Post by macca on Jun 28, 2018 18:58:09 GMT
So you were there when it was the 'proper' Richer Sounds - with all the Jap bin-end stuff? Man they had some wonderful gear in there in those days. Literally piled to the ceiling. I wish I had had some money back then.
I read that the Japanese companies realised it was hurting their UK sales and agreed amongst themselves to stop selling their end of line kit to Richer on the cheap. Forced him to buy some brand names and get his own gear made. I guess that was after you were there.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2018 19:17:08 GMT
There were a good few “choice” items on the stock list that never made the catalogue. There was good money to be made by ordering them and selling them because you were free to set the price for any non-catalogue stuff. Massive Akai and JVC amps were memorable. Also huge Jap speakers and the top Technics tonearms. We also sold the SL1200, yet nobody wanted them because What Hifi told them to buy the Dual CS505 instead.
I sold quite a bit of exotica in Edinburgh and York. Not much demand in Leeds and none at all in Newcastle though. For a young guy, that job was a great opportunity which I squandered. The first of many. I still greatly miss living in York. It was only an apartment but it was in the very best part of the town and in an amazing building. Only 100 yards from The Sound Org too. The urge to return to live there still surfaces every so often but in my head I’m expecting to be 21 again if I do! If that was part of the deal, I’d be headed for the airport now.
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Post by macca on Jun 28, 2018 20:36:55 GMT
Age is in the mind. Once you start acting old then you're old!
Anyway I am interested in Paul's Focals because they are very similar to the Focal/JM Labs I'm using at the moment. I think about 15 years separates them but you can see the family resemblance. Very pretty for a large-ish floorstander. Got mine because I fancied a change from vintage speakers. I'm a lot more impressed with them than I thought I would be. Serious driver tech, very solid cabs. The midrange is almost as good as an electrostatic.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2018 21:18:16 GMT
They do look similar. You can see the heritage. My only faint association with Focal is using the inverted tweeter on Impulse speakers. Very good it was too.
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Post by pauld on Jun 28, 2018 21:56:53 GMT
Yes they do midrange especially well, but have good, tight bass too. With the recent upgrades I’m hearing them sound quite amazing.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2018 22:01:23 GMT
I didn’t care for the looks in the magazine shots, but seeing them in your room, I have really grown to like them. Build and finish look top notch. Proportions and scale are somehow far more pleasing than the promo pics show too. They appear taller, more slender and more elegant. I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone else, but often seeing something in the flesh or in a REAL picture can change how you see it.
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Post by pauld on Jun 29, 2018 10:44:43 GMT
They are built well and wifey likes the look of them more than the Epos I had before, so I’m quids in |
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Post by macca on Jun 29, 2018 17:09:47 GMT
They do look similar. You can see the heritage. My only faint association with Focal is using the inverted tweeter on Impulse speakers. Very good it was too. The tweeters are £300 each to replace so you don't want to blow them. |
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Post by pauld on Jun 29, 2018 20:37:39 GMT
They do look similar. You can see the heritage. My only faint association with Focal is using the inverted tweeter on Impulse speakers. Very good it was too. The tweeters are £300 each to replace so you don't want to blow them. I’d heard that Focal tweeters weren’t cheap. |
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Post by macca on Jun 30, 2018 6:39:26 GMT
They make all their own drivers in house, nothing gets bought in.
ironically you can get Focal speakers very cheap second hand thanks to all the nonsense you read on forums about Focal being bright and harsh.
'Bright' = A crappy flat earth amp doesn't have enough current to drive them in the bass properly despite costing thousands and getting 5 stars in What Hi Fi.
'Harsh' = They show up the distortion inherent in the sound of crappy flat earth amps that is there to add 'character' when used with crappy but trendy flat earth speakers, but through a proper pair of speakers just gets exposed for what it is.
Not that I care, if it means I can buy £5K speakers for less than £500 I'm happy to let people carry on talking shite.
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Post by pauld on Jun 30, 2018 9:04:47 GMT
Yep, I had the very same experience though when I first bought the Focal’s.
My then Exposure amps which have a superb reputation just weren’t man enough for the Focal’s. By adding the Belles which is a beast but costs a very reasonable price, it transformed the Focal’s. They are no very easy to listen to.
The disappointing element is that the Focal of now are voiced on crappy flat earth amps, so aren’t a patch on the original speakers or yesteryear.
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Post by macca on Jun 30, 2018 9:42:55 GMT
Yes I have read of people saying they don't go well with Naim amps, not surprised they did not work with Exposure either. Not saying those brands are junk but they offer a particular take on the sound that works if you get all the planets aligned but why bother with all that hassle? Both brands have had their day if you ask me, the world has moved on.
I had alisten to a full exposure system with Elac speakers at a dealer. Modern Exposure not the classic stuff. Just so bland, and this was £5K of kit. I turned it up a bit to see if that would help but it didn't, it just started falling apart. Then the dealer comes back in and turns it back down. Yeah, that's going to get you a sale.
That was a few years ago, the shop has closed down now, no surprise. Dealer was just a kid but seemed to think he knew everything.
In the same place I also had a listen to Arcam pre-power with Monitor Audio floorstanders. Now that did work but again the price was eye-watering for what you were getting.
it's amazing how much money you can dump just to get something utterly mediocre.
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Post by pauld on Jun 30, 2018 10:10:48 GMT
That’s nothing, I heard some Magico speakers with some exotic amps costing well over £200k combined and they sounded absolutely dreadful. All Hifi, no music at all... simply horrid.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 30, 2018 10:33:53 GMT
I think expensive and complicated systems can often sound poor. Maybe they are much fussier about what you feed into them and what you partner them with like race cars are.
Then there’s the complexity and number of components, as well as higher demands on your electric supply.
Then we have the fact that they are usually played louder and in bigger rooms when demmed, placing all this under a microscope.
To me, this all adds up to a recipe for potential disappointment and it takes more work getting bigger and more expensive systems to work.
This could be utter bollocks though, because it’s an assumption based on nothing but my own guesswork
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Post by macca on Jun 30, 2018 12:01:11 GMT
Well there's no reason why say, a power amp, should cost £100,000 but if you want one at that price (or more) you've got a fair selection.
Once you get over £10K it's just about how much your paying. So given that demographic you might as well just put an average amp in a blingy case and charge the earth, the people buying it are not discriminating. Their only concern is that they might not be spending enough. So it won't matter if it is mediocre.
I don't believe the leccy makes any difference whatsoever myself, I know it is the usual excuse for a bad sound at shows, but then you wonder how some exhibitors manage to get a fantastic sound at the same event? Or maybe not, it's usually pretty easy to work out why.
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) and yes it was good for the money. 