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Post by dsjr on Jan 31, 2020 17:03:41 GMT
...And you lot think their stuff is all knocked together!
We should be promoting companies like this, which have grown over the years and who have always cared about their products and end users!
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Post by macca on Jan 31, 2020 17:59:28 GMT
Nobody here has ever said that Rega is just knocked together!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 31, 2020 20:18:34 GMT
Nothing wrong with the modern day build quality, Dave.
Only arm I felt was a bit shoddy was the RB300 which was down to the design. The internal spring is counterproductive and its removal was the most often recommended upgrade.
Also wasnt a fan of that bullshit 3 point fixing system. No VTA adjustment which Is criminal.
Also, the wiring of the arm didn't fit well with me either. Who wants the ground coupled with the Left channel? Not me, that's for sure.
The other big upgrade" was to literally sand off the headshells underside to remove the finish. Only then would the cartridge sit flat lol I mean CMON! it's a basic principle of tonearm design that was ignored.
Shoddy as Sh#t.
My biggest gripe was that the arm design was basic, actually no, it was rudimentary. No Azimuth, no vta on most models, the counterweight rattled, the counterweight is not optionally positioned either. Everyone who knows anything will tell you that the counterweight should be in line with the stylus tip, but rega dont bother with that either.
For me, if you have any chance of fitting and setting up an arm and cartridge properly, you need areas of adjustment, areas Rega dont offer.
It's a fundamental problem.
The arm works and it's cheap enough to buy one in an emergency, other than that, I wouldnt touch one.
Unless I had to pick between an Alphason and a rega.........then I'd pick a rega.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 31, 2020 23:36:29 GMT
I thought the RB300 spring made a difference until I forgot whether it was 'connected' or not. Naff all difference in practise and trying to remove it by an amateur would totally feck the bearings up - you need a special torque driver to set them and my wrists weren't strong enough to use it - cough..
My opinion on the RB300 differs from almost everyone elses, so best shut up. The 330 is a different kettle of fish and I reckon easier to get to work on non-wooden armboards...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 1:06:08 GMT
Removing the spring makes NO audible difference. There's no proof anywhere that it does , to my knowledge and hearing. Also VTA is a myth unless the arm gets above 2° out which would be exceptional. The only viable statement in the above but one post is the linishing on the head shell which I agree is a good idea. The casting quality is shite. It's a great arm and when wired properly will make an SME of any model sound tedious . So ....Id like to thank everyone for your co operation and you can now suck my Dickson. 🤪
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 9:26:22 GMT
Removing the spring makes NO audible difference. There's no proof anywhere that it does , to my knowledge and hearing. Also VTA is a myth unless the arm gets above 2° out which would be exceptional. The only viable statement in the above but one post is the linishing on the head shell which I agree is a good idea. The casting quality is shite. It's a great arm and when wired properly will make an SME of any model sound tedious . So ....Id like to thank everyone for your co operation and you can now suck my Dickson. 🤪 Azimuth isnt valid either? I'm not saying it's a bad arm btw, I did enjoy mine. I went from an AT95E to a Goldring 2100 and the VTA was way over 2deg out. That when the lack of VTA became an issue. Same with the Acutex cart Its not bullshit, it's me relaying what I experienced during ownership. Regarding the spring, I never had that issue, it was just what was said about the 300. Made sense though. I presume you've tried it without the spring?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 10:52:16 GMT
Yep. Made no difference whatsoever except ruined an arm.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 11:01:26 GMT
Yep. Made no difference whatsoever except ruined an arm. Lol, For enough
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Post by dsjr on Feb 1, 2020 11:46:15 GMT
Azimuth is only an issue when the cartridge maker fecks it up! Most modern cartridges, even automated manufactured ones like AT95 models are supposed to be, seem to get it better these days. Current arms do look slightly better at the headshell end and paint finish better here. As for VTA, many cartridges have too much rake angle on the diamond settings, especially it seems Japanese sourced ones as their vinyl is softer or more 'elastic' by all accounts. Having an RB300 slightly down at the rear could actually BENEFIT some cartridges rather than make it worse. The tapered arm pipe makes it look worse than it actually is as well and any Rega arm that superficially 'looks' level is actually set too high. In any case, looking at leverages and confirmed by cartridge experts I've spoken to, 1/10g tracking force difference can equate to a couple of mm either way up or down at the pivot end and back in the days of the Troika and Karma, I kind of proved it to myself. Also my vibe that the Goldring 1042 prefers the arm a bit tail-down hasn't changed as yet. I think the best overall third party RB derived arm is probably the Michell one, which is now bordering on mad money imo. drilling the pipe out looks interesting and they do some machining on the underside of the headshell area. Not sure the lower slung counterweight makes any damned difference to a conventionally pivoted arm (very few conventional arms are dynamically balanced in all planes anyway) but it does look smart i admit. Underneath though, a Technoarm is still an RB250 in drag! Wiring? So much bullshit talked here but maybe the fine Hitachi internal wiring isn't good enough (it's still way thicker than the feet cartridge coil wires), the grounding of the metalwork to one of the signal returns may not be the best idea in metallic armboards with a deck chassis already grounded/earthed and to me, confirming how we listen with our eyes, the Rb300/330 exit cables look Sh#t so they sound Sh#t too (wrong if you make an RCA-RCA cable out of one as I've done). Of course, the posher exit cables on the altogether posher looking RB880 must dramatically improve the perceived sound? - www.rega.co.uk/rb880.htmlIn use, the posher exit cables do indeed inspire more confidence before any music is played.
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Post by karma67 on Feb 1, 2020 12:56:03 GMT
As for VTA, many cartridges have too much rake angle on the diamond settings, especially it seems Japanese sourced ones as their vinyl is softer or more 'elastic' by all accounts. Having an RB300 slightly down at the rear could actually BENEFIT some cartridges rather than make it worse. The tapered arm pipe makes it look worse than it actually is as well and any Rega arm that superficially 'looks' level is actually set too high. can you post a link or tell us where on earth you got this information from please.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 13:09:53 GMT
As for VTA, many cartridges have too much rake angle on the diamond settings, especially it seems Japanese sourced ones as their vinyl is softer or more 'elastic' by all accounts. Having an RB300 slightly down at the rear could actually BENEFIT some cartridges rather than make it worse. The tapered arm pipe makes it look worse than it actually is as well and any Rega arm that superficially 'looks' level is actually set too high. can you post a link or tell us where on earth you got this information from please. The 2M bkackbis one such cartridge that does benefit from being a bit tail down BUT in my humble opinion, deliberately making an Arm without adjustment ability, is just not gonna make it on to my radar
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 13:10:35 GMT
Re VTA. To effect a one degree angle change to a stylus tip , using an eight inch tonearm you have to lift or drop the arm approximately 3mm ! Ergo , a two degree change = 6mm . Brings it into perspective I think. Obviously anyone lucky enough to be using a 12" arm would need some serious ceiling height to achieve a similar change. I've never heard a cart that changed its sonics with a one degree alteration. There's too many collateral parameters anyway , such as differing cutting angles by different companies , different vinyl thickness , warps etc Might be my ears but I remain a sceptic.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 13:34:54 GMT
Re VTA. To effect a one degree angle change to a stylus tip , using an eight inch tonearm you have to lift or drop the arm approximately 3mm ! Ergo , a two degree change = 6mm . Brings it into perspective I think. Obviously anyone lucky enough to be using a 12" arm would need some serious ceiling height to achieve a similar change. I've never heard a cart that changed its sonics with a one degree alteration. There's too many collateral parameters anyway , such as differing cutting angles by different companies , different vinyl thickness , warps etc Might be my ears but I remain a sceptic. Not to be deliberately awkward, but I must say that I recently reinstalled my TA and noticed withibg seconds that the sound was off. I hadn't got the vta right.
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Post by karma67 on Feb 1, 2020 14:25:22 GMT
can you post a link or tell us where on earth you got this information from please. The 2M bkackbis one such cartridge that does benefit from being a bit tail down BUT in my humble opinion, deliberately making an Arm without adjustment ability, is just not gonna make it on to my radar yes but you could put that down to personal taste. but after having a alphason and a zeta,both with no azimuth adjustment and then going to a fully adjustable tonearm pmat-1010,i would never go back. getting azimuth spot on is a revelation to me.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 14:35:43 GMT
The 2M bkackbis one such cartridge that does benefit from being a bit tail down BUT in my humble opinion, deliberately making an Arm without adjustment ability, is just not gonna make it on to my radar yes but you could put that down to personal taste. but after having a alphason and a zeta,both with no azimuth adjustment and then going to a fully adjustable tonearm pmat-1010,i would never go back. getting azimuth spot on is a revelation to me.
Exactly. We've been through that transition and I have to agree. Failing a cart into its perfect alignment can be massively influential
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Post by dsjr on Feb 1, 2020 15:59:21 GMT
can you post a link or tell us where on earth you got this information from please. The 2M bkackbis one such cartridge that does benefit from being a bit tail down BUT in my humble opinion, deliberately making an Arm without adjustment ability, is just not gonna make it on to my radar You forget my career sir and the huge number of cartridges I set up in a variety of arms, listening to every one I should add. To this day, I have a collection of RB300 spacers and on many decks unless it was absolutely necessary, adding spacers more often than not made it worse.
As to rake angles and so on, you think I made it up? Takle a look at the numerous HiFi Choice (and related period HFN cartridge reviews with measurements - yes, those things that subjectivists choose to ignore) and you'll find reference to stylus shape, polish and alignment showing what I say. Further listening tests confirm these observations in a large nomber of the cartridges we had through our hands. Not all by any means, but certainly a good few.
Rega still vehemently deny that VTA is important and only a couple of months ago their sales manager, an old colleague of mine from the 90's, forgot my past for a minute and went off on one about it not being important before I reminded him with a smile whom he was having a go at! To confirm, I also found that 1/10g either way could mimic VTA fine tuning and that's probably what you're hearing if the cartridge's tracking performance allows it. In fact, I think their arms are now set fractionally too high with their own pickups (I don't think it's my eyesight)...
No problem Oli if Rega arms aren't going to make it for you., they don't for many unless they're bodged up RB250 based things. Like I say many times, shame I can't sit people down and physically and audibly show you what I found decades ago. At least current Rega arms have more sophisticated spacer arrangements for those who use these arms in decks with different platter heights.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 1, 2020 16:49:15 GMT
Getting the stylus rake angle correct for lowest possible inter modulation distortion is a compromise between arm height, tracking weight and having the coils in optimum alignment with the generator. It's a 3 way shift where each adjustment affects the other two and you really can only get it right, mathematically and electrically with a distortion analyser and appropriate test record. That American record and software setup kit is 700 bucks.
I run a 12" arm, moving it one or 2mm up and down makes way less difference than .1g on the tracking weight.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 18:54:13 GMT
Though I enjoy fiddling about with my record decks as much as most of us if you can't get the azimuth right first time by eye with 90% of modern cartridges then your doing something wrong and also with vta again with most moden arms just get it level with the surface of a record or by using a mirror and again 90% of the time you will not go wrong. Adjust your arms weight and tracking as per your cartridges instructions and your good to go.
I can't speak for 12" arms and very expensive arms but most of the arms I've used by Linn, Rega and their variants if you use the above method and I guarantee you'll not be far off.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 19:02:55 GMT
Though I enjoy fiddling about with my record decks as much as most of us if you can't get the azimuth right first time by eye with 90% of modern cartridges then your doing something wrong and also with vta again with most moden arms just get it level with the surface of a record or by using a mirror and again 90% of the time you will not go wrong. Adjust your arms weight and tracking as per your cartridges instructions and your good to go. I can't speak for 12" arms and very expensive arms but most of the arms I've used by Linn, Rega and their variants if you use the above method and I guarantee you'll not be far off. But what happens when you swap an AT95 for an obviously bigger Goldring 2200 and the arm Is way off being close to level? This is exactly what happened to me when using a 250 with the 3point fixing. Shims are crap, as Dave said. This is where the arm falls down big time. Sound wise, the one I had was great but when I moved up the cartridge ladder, its limitations for setup made me change it
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 19:23:40 GMT
Of course getting the arm level will sometimes entail raising the arm up to accomodate bigger carts what I meant was the vta the angle of the arm not the height which in my experience with the arms I've owned works best when it's level with the platter not slightly raised or slightly lower than the headshell.. I Have to say I've never tried using a Rega 3 point the RB250 I had I used with an Origin live vta adjuster to raise and lower the arm but granted even that wasn't easy.
I've only ever used and use a Rega arm now for their great vfm but if money was no option I doubt very much I'd use one.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 1, 2020 19:25:33 GMT
Of course getting the arm level will sometimes entail raising the arm up to accomodate bigger carts what I meant was the vta the angle of the arm not the height which in my experience with the arms I've owned works best when it's level with the platter not slightly raised or slightly lower than the headshell.. I Have to say I've never tried using a Rega 3 point the RB250 I had I used with an Origin live vta adjuster to raise and lower the arm but granted even that wasn't easy. I've only ever used and use a Rega arm now for their great vfm but if money was no option I doubt very much I'd use one. Yes, I get ya.
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Post by electronumpty on Feb 1, 2020 19:32:25 GMT
I enjoyed my Ol modded Rega very much, a single pillar version mounted onto the Notts Analogue collet meant VTA was easily adjustable to taste.
Would I go back to it now I use a AO Uniarm? Not on your nellie it's much better in all ways , but then it should be for the price. As you move up that ladder things you may have tolerated previously, or not known about/heard, become less tolerable as you are now more aware of the potential of different bits of kit or previous incarnations limitations.
That's part of the game really, If I had not been able to upgrade my Rega I would still have been happy with it - albeit in ignorance.
If you are on a budget you could do far worse than pick up a modded one second hand I reckon.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 20:14:45 GMT
I enjoyed my Ol modded Rega very much, a single pillar version mounted onto the Notts Analogue collet meant VTA was easily adjustable to taste. Would I go back to it now I use a AO Uniarm? Not on your nellie it's much better in all ways , but then it should be for the price. As you move up that ladder things you may have tolerated previously, or not known about/heard, become less tolerable as you are now more aware of the potential of different bits of kit or previous incarnations limitations. That's part of the game really, If I had not been able to upgrade my Rega I would still have been happy with it - albeit in ignorance. If you are on a budget you could do far worse than pick up a modded one second hand I reckon. Unfortunately I've downgraded I went from a Fidelity Research FR12 which was specially designed for the LP12 before Ivor got the idea of making his own arms some of which I loved like the very early Ittok but others like the Akito and the mk 1 Ekos which where not so great imo. The FR12 though was a wonderful arm and so beautifully engineered I toyed with the idea of having Angus work his magic on it but it seemed wrong to tamper with it at the time but other things took priority over hifi and I sold all my kit and replaced my deck with an LP12 self build from spare bits and online bargains onto which I stuck an OL modded RB250 which for the money was fantastic as is the AO modded RB300 I have on my Techie. Of course I can hear the difference between the Regas and the other better arms I've owned but they allow me to enjoy my records at this time. I'd love to try a unipivot but am afraid that AO is out of reach at present but have thought about a Nima would it be a good match with the 1210 I wonder? Another great vfm arm by all accounts and wouldn't cost much once I sold the Rega.
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Post by electronumpty on Feb 1, 2020 21:39:30 GMT
Unfortunately I've downgraded I went from a Fidelity Research FR12 which was specially designed for the LP12 before Ivor got the idea of making his own arms some of which I loved like the very early Ittok but others like the Akito and the mk 1 Ekos which where not so great imo. The FR12 though was a wonderful arm and so beautifully engineered I toyed with the idea of having Angus work his magic on it but it seemed wrong to tamper with it at the time but other things took priority over hifi and I sold all my kit and replaced my deck with an LP12 self build from spare bits and online bargains onto which I stuck an OL modded RB250 which for the money was fantastic as is the AO modded RB300 I have on my Techie. Of course I can hear the difference between the Regas and the other better arms I've owned but they allow me to enjoy my records at this time. I'd love to try a unipivot but am afraid that AO is out of reach at present but have thought about a Nima would it be a good match with the 1210 I wonder? Another great vfm arm by all accounts and wouldn't cost much once I sold the Rega. Well horses for courses etc , I wanted to make a big step up from the Rega so was able to, luckily. AO doesn't make the Uniarm anymore so I got mine ex dem at a good reduction. I chanced it but knew that unipivots work well with the Notts Analogue decks by all accounts which reduced the risk and I figured I'd be able to sell on with no trouble if it didn't work. The Nima as a good rep but I don't know much about the Techie 1210s so can't comment on the suitability and as we all know synergy is really important.
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