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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 19:12:56 GMT
Anybody have experience of these?
I am interested in what Mr Firebottle replaced the Belcanto on AoS with.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 23:49:23 GMT
I heard the Bel Canto. It was pretty good. However the Topping DAC he replaced it was was fabulous.
Had a little listen earlier and it's a cracking DAC for £100.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 5:21:39 GMT
The D50?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 8:23:28 GMT
Nope, the Topping D30. Shouldn't be possible, I know. The Bel Canto has a lot of reatures in comparison but if you just want a dac, this is crazy good for the money. Only heard it in Alans system though. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 9:17:57 GMT
Was that with his Kin and 286 amp?
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Post by firebottle on Nov 19, 2019 9:21:58 GMT
Oli has a hole in his own brain now, it is the D50.
The D50 has different filter settings so you can chose your sound.
Cageyh - yes with the Kin and 286.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 19, 2019 9:32:55 GMT
Apart from 'audiophile' dacs which sometimes have severe design bodges to 'sound better,' I think dacs today are now an audibly sorted system. However, a Topping D30 is so damned cheap I doubt many audiophiles would take it seriously. I have my beadies on one to replace the ancient ton-up twin supply QED thingie when it finally packs it in...
I heard a Chord M-Scaler not long ago. the dem showed it to 'work' in the musical 'tune-dem/timbres/textures' things I find important BUT, I'm convinced the levels were very slightly changed in the comparison done by a Chord chappie who had the remotes and if so, even slightly, that screws everything up as sighted comparisons are bad enough as it is - why some CD players used to have very slightly higher output (Arcams of old) for instance.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 9:37:34 GMT
Oli has a hole in his own brain now, it is the D50. The D50 has different filter settings so you can chose your sound. Cageyh - yes with the Kin and 286. Thanks Alan. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 9:45:51 GMT
The only drawback is the lack of two coax connections. I guess I could use one coax and one optical at a push.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 9:49:43 GMT
My other thoughts are to mod the modded Caiman SEG a bit further, with a superclock etc.
But mine has a Capella chip fitted so would be a nice office headphone system for someone....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 10:58:36 GMT
Apologies Kevin, Alan hadn't informed me of the change to his dac lol. He had a 30, now has a 50. The 50 was really excellent on the back of a cheap Philips transport. Really good. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 12:35:00 GMT
Just need to see how if I can find some info on a modified SEG will compare.to a D50.
Alternatively, I will order it from Amazon and send it back if I don't like it.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 19, 2019 13:56:18 GMT
I'm sure Stan's dacs are fine and are still reasonably priced, but I don't think any of them have been measured (I know I know, but measurements can show up irregularities). As for Topping and the Modi 3 for example compared to their earlier stuff, ASR is your friend, although it's become a bit of a spec-chasing forum, so you have to make allowances...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 14:02:51 GMT
The D50 measured well.
My Asus soundcard didn't, but I like the sound of the music it makes.
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Post by antonio on Nov 19, 2019 17:20:21 GMT
From what I've read on forums, never heard one myself, the SEG seems to be a bit of a marmite product. You have obviously got on well with the Caiman so extra mods well suit you.
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 19, 2019 18:30:55 GMT
From what I've read on forums, never heard one myself, the SEG seems to be a bit of a marmite product. You have obviously got on well with the Caiman so extra mods well suit you. Listening to the Caimen brought on a dose of aural bleeding (dramatization suggesting HF was over bearing) when I heard it. It was in my system too, which had never behaved like that. I like that stan is trying to keep things affordable etc, but the sound did nothing for me at all. I know that there are huge fans of this DAC so it could have been a rare occasion where things didn't gel. Price wise, neither will break the bank. Fairly good position to be in. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 20:48:36 GMT
The problem is that it sounds pretty much the same as the much cheaper Asus sound card.
I bought the SEG second hand, and added a linear PSU and Dorado. I like the sound of the SEG, but I am expecting more....
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 19, 2019 22:14:12 GMT
The problem is that it sounds pretty much the same as the much cheaper Asus sound card. I bought the SEG second hand, and added a linear PSU and Dorado. I like the sound of the SEG, but I am expecting more.... I see. A topping may well do the job, nothing to lose. |
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Post by macca on Nov 20, 2019 7:30:13 GMT
The difference between the worst digital source and the very best is tiny compared to the worst turntable versus the best turntable. I think you are just expecting too much.
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 20, 2019 8:03:20 GMT
The difference between the worst digital source and the very best is tiny compared to the worst turntable versus the best turntable. I think you are just expecting too much. I dunno Macca, when I heard the Chord Dave with Mscaler, the experience was enlightening. I haven't had as much experience with Digital as analogue but I would suggest the Dave would be as good a reference as anything out there. If you put the same Caiman I heard, on the same system as the Dave, you'd swear it was broken. |
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Post by macca on Nov 20, 2019 8:28:51 GMT
I've not heard a Caiman or a Dave so I don't know about that. I have heard the original Beresford DAC and there was nothing wrong with it, would be odd if the Caiman was a step back? And isn't the Dave ten grand? You'd hope it was a cut above a typical £200 DAC for that sort of money. My point was that unlike designing turntable where you could carry on getting improvements pretty much forever as long as the development budget holds out, there's only so good a DAC can possibly be due to the nature of how it works. I'd like to see Dave blind tested against something like the Topping or a Beresford, I suspect people would be in for a shock. Until they remembered that blind testing isn't valid ofc.  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 20, 2019 8:39:25 GMT
I've not heard a Caiman or a Dave so I don't know about that. I have heard the original Beresford DAC and there was nothing wrong with it, would be odd if the Caiman was a step back? And isn't the Dave ten grand? You'd hope it was a cut above a typical £200 DAC for that sort of money. My point was that unlike designing turntable where you could carry on getting improvements pretty much forever as long as the development budget holds out, there's only so good a DAC can possibly be due to the nature of how it works. I'd like to see Dave blind tested against something like the Topping or a Beresford, I suspect people would be in for a shock. Until they remembered that blind testing isn't valid ofc. Like I said previously, it could have just been one of those occasions where it didn't work in the system. Yes, I'd hope it was bloody obvious which one the Dave was for £10k lol. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 8:46:58 GMT
I only use a stand alone DAC for CD replay, but have heard a huge variation in sound quality.
I had an original Beresford unit, TC-7510 was it? Can't recall. It was clean and clear, but lacking in substance and authority, disappointing really.
The basic Thetas were rather good. The Cobalt and Chroma are well worth using with CD, way better than the run of the mill stuff like Cambridge Audio and Audio Alchemy.
Been using Monarchy Audio M22 series DACs for over ten years now and nothing else has come close yet. Certainly no inferiority to vinyl in my system.
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Post by macca on Nov 20, 2019 8:55:37 GMT
Try comparing blind, even if there are still differences it's scary how less obvious they are when you don't know which is which.
I admit my DAC experience is quite limited, only tried a couple of them in my own set up. One was quite expensive, a Young something or other There was no difference between it and the DAC in the CD player. Also tried that Xiang Shieng thing, that did at least sound a little bit different, but not 'better'. And that had a pre-amp section which couldn't be switched out so it was quite possibly that and not the DAC section that was making the difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 9:17:33 GMT
And don't forget, there's a big variation in results with different digital interconnects. You'd think that if it works, then any digital cable should be OK, but that's not the case. Some produce audibly superior results (or audibly inferior results).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 10:38:03 GMT
I have a Project S2 Pre but as it's the only DAC I've used I have no idea whether it's good, bad or indifferent. Seems to work just fine with no obvious issues but then I again I haven't compared it with anything...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 20:00:29 GMT
And don't forget, there's a big variation in results with different digital interconnects. You'd think that if it works, then any digital cable should be OK, but that's not the case. Some produce audibly superior results (or audibly inferior results). I have seen you mention this before when I was still allowed to play on AoS. I have tried various coax cables, and noticed very little difference. Any recommendations? I am currently using a Canare LV61-S made by Mark Grant, and I also have a Belden coax made by Blue Jeans, Without spending more on the cable than the DAC, what should I be looking for? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 20:03:02 GMT
Try comparing blind, even if there are still differences it's scary how less obvious they are when you don't know which is which.
I admit my DAC experience is quite limited, only tried a couple of them in my own set up. One was quite expensive, a Young something or other There was no difference between it and the DAC in the CD player. Also tried that Xiang Shieng thing, that did at least sound a little bit different, but not 'better'. And that had a pre-amp section which couldn't be switched out so it was quite possibly that and not the DAC section that was making the difference. I have the DACs set up running through the same system. The SEG is run off the Asus sound card SPDIF output (maybe I should try something different here?), and the Asus feeds directly into my pre amp using some quality Furutech I/Cs. I can switch between the two easily, but as I am the only one interested in this, blind is not really an option.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 20:15:17 GMT
And don't forget, there's a big variation in results with different digital interconnects. You'd think that if it works, then any digital cable should be OK, but that's not the case. Some produce audibly superior results (or audibly inferior results). I have seen you mention this before when I was still allowed to play on AoS. I have tried various coax cables, and noticed very little difference. Any recommendations? I am currently using a Canare LV61-S made by Mark Grant, and I also have a Belden coax made by Blue Jeans, Without spending more on the cable than the DAC, what should I be looking for? I like Belden video grade cable. Works very nicely and sounds better than most. Can't recall the cable code number and I don't have any immediately handy without ripping the system apart. It sounds better than a quite costly Townshend cable I have. |
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Post by dsjr on Nov 20, 2019 21:00:49 GMT
The difference between the worst digital source and the very best is tiny compared to the worst turntable versus the best turntable. I think you are just expecting too much. I dunno Macca, when I heard the Chord Dave with Mscaler, the experience was enlightening. I haven't had as much experience with Digital as analogue but I would suggest the Dave would be as good a reference as anything out there. If you put the same Caiman I heard, on the same system as the Dave, you'd swear it was broken. I felt the same when I heard a Dave with and without M-Scaler (there's a pass-through button on the M-Scaler). The difference was so marked with M-Scaler engaged that alarm bells rang and as I wasn't in charge of the remotes, I felt maybe a subtle level change had been done. Nothing like proper hands-on here though and if the M-Scaler really was doing what I thought I heard, it totally answers the analogue lovers criticisms of the 'domestic' digital medium, albeit at mad money again - it gives the music more 'timbral textures' for want of a better term. Why does nobody else use the tech, which apparently can be licensed? Could I hear this if compared blind. I *think* I could on the right music, but no idea at all otherwise.
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