Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
|
Post by Bigman80 on Nov 13, 2019 15:04:45 GMT
My god there's some bollox being talked in this thread.... just deleted my technical post as obviously "hearsay" and "what I read somewhere" have infinitely greater authority and meaning.... tenor.com/view/crying-gif-8862281
Lighten up Jez 
I read Jez’s post and learned from it. Fir instance, I had no idea valve amps could have less distortion than SS. I didn’t respond because it was definitive and I understood it, Silence in this case meant acceptance and appreciation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 15:05:16 GMT
Never going to happen...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 15:58:56 GMT
I read Jez’s post and learned from it. Fir instance, I had no idea valve amps could have less distortion than SS. I didn’t respond because it was definitive and I understood it, Silence in this case meant acceptance and appreciation. Thanks Andrew  You'd think facts like the one you mention, or the most important thing of all that I said ie that NFB (negative feedback) is by far the most important thing about a typical amplifier and defines virtually everything about it, may have raised rather more interest from people... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 16:01:48 GMT
I read Jez’s post and learned from it. Fir instance, I had no idea valve amps could have less distortion than SS. I didn’t respond because it was definitive and I understood it, Silence in this case meant acceptance and appreciation. Well I would 100% have time to listen to a Valve amplifier with Specs better than these:
Modulus-86
40W (8Ω), 70W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-186
40W (8Ω), 65W (4Ω) @ 0.00019% THD
Modulus-286
65W (8Ω), 125W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-686
240W (8Ω), 360W (4Ω) @ <0.0002% THD
Maybe Jez could direct me as to where I can find Valve amps with better THD than the aforementioned amps?
|
|
|
|
Post by sq225917 on Nov 13, 2019 17:53:37 GMT
You'll find them at the end of the garden with the fairies and sky gods.
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Nov 13, 2019 17:55:47 GMT
But I haven't got a garden.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 18:08:02 GMT
I read Jez’s post and learned from it. Fir instance, I had no idea valve amps could have less distortion than SS. I didn’t respond because it was definitive and I understood it, Silence in this case meant acceptance and appreciation. Well I would 100% have time to listen to a Valve amplifier with Specs better than these:
Modulus-86
40W (8Ω), 70W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-186
40W (8Ω), 65W (4Ω) @ 0.00019% THD
Modulus-286
65W (8Ω), 125W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-686
240W (8Ω), 360W (4Ω) @ <0.0002% THD
Maybe Jez could direct me as to where I can find Valve amps with better THD than the aforementioned amps?
Say's a man who obviously didn't read my techy post on the matter that explained why valve power amps are wholly limited by the output transformers.... and why such low distortion in amps such as the Neurochromes is obtained by the use of loads of negative feedback... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 18:17:44 GMT
Well I would 100% have time to listen to a Valve amplifier with Specs better than these:
Modulus-86
40W (8Ω), 70W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-186
40W (8Ω), 65W (4Ω) @ 0.00019% THD
Modulus-286
65W (8Ω), 125W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-686
240W (8Ω), 360W (4Ω) @ <0.0002% THD
Maybe Jez could direct me as to where I can find Valve amps with better THD than the aforementioned amps?
Say's a man who obviously didn't read my techy post on the matter that explained why valve power amps are wholly limited by the output transformers.... and why such low distortion in amps such as the Neurochromes is obtained by the use of loads of negative feedback...No, I read it and still felt it would be Interested in knowing what valve amplifier is capable of matching or beating a SS amp in THD. Thus was the statement, was it not? However the SS amp manages to achieve those numbers, is not the point. Hence the disregard of the feedback statement. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 18:20:19 GMT
You'll find them at the end of the garden with the fairies and sky gods. Ah! That'll be where they are lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 23:13:35 GMT
I answered “Dunno” because I don’t really care. If it sounds good to my ears, and I enjoy it more, then I don’t care if an amp is lying to me. Ditto. Though it would seem odd if valves produced 'air', because they are vacuums. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 23:31:07 GMT
Yeah.
Brilliant !
ADMIN EDIT 😌
Engine, unnecessary.
|
|
|
|
Post by alit on Nov 14, 2019 6:17:23 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2019 6:17:39 GMT
I read Jez’s post and learned from it. Fir instance, I had no idea valve amps could have less distortion than SS. I didn’t respond because it was definitive and I understood it, Silence in this case meant acceptance and appreciation. Well I would 100% have time to listen to a Valve amplifier with Specs better than these:
Modulus-86
40W (8Ω), 70W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-186
40W (8Ω), 65W (4Ω) @ 0.00019% THD
Modulus-286
65W (8Ω), 125W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-686
240W (8Ω), 360W (4Ω) @ <0.0002% THD
Maybe Jez could direct me as to where I can find Valve amps with better THD than the aforementioned amps?
Were have these measurements come from? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 6:40:24 GMT
Well I would 100% have time to listen to a Valve amplifier with Specs better than these:
Modulus-86
40W (8Ω), 70W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-186
40W (8Ω), 65W (4Ω) @ 0.00019% THD
Modulus-286
65W (8Ω), 125W (4Ω) @ 0.0001% THD
Modulus-686
240W (8Ω), 360W (4Ω) @ <0.0002% THD
Maybe Jez could direct me as to where I can find Valve amps with better THD than the aforementioned amps?
Were have these measurements come from? From the Neurochrome website. Ordinarily I wouldn't entertain information from a manufacturers website, but ASR measured the 286 and found it to be close to the stated measurements. Tom also publishes the measurement graphs on his page. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Nov 14, 2019 7:42:17 GMT
Well if those measurements have been confirmed I will say no more. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 8:43:30 GMT
Measurements mean jack Sh#t in the real world.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Nov 14, 2019 8:54:56 GMT
I still maintain that added 'air and space' is compression added to soft clipping in some cases and maybe a healthy spray of distortions odd and even plus a little noise. Amp design - GOOD amp design is as much of an art as it is a well developed science and it's my view that getting distortions well down without screwing the rest up needs some care. Each stage of a power amp needs care and balancing to match the next stage I gather, but I'm no engineer and it's a shame Jez couldn't have expanded on this a bit. Lengthy thread on ASR about a Pass designed fun-kit amp that a third party has rather capitalised on it seems. It's dead simple but distorts badly and there's very little power. Both sides of the air and space argument posted and it seems that, even with the dac reviews, that the higher the distortion 'spray' is, plus added noise, subtly rolled off highs and so on, the 'nicer' and more obviously 'musical' the sound can be to some audiophiles it seems - I've experienced this in recent years too... www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/pass-aca-class-a-power-amplifier-review.9741/ |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Nov 14, 2019 8:56:45 GMT
Measurements mean jack Sh#t in the real world. I totally disagree.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 9:27:23 GMT
Measurements mean jack Sh#t in the real world. Well have fun with your next amp build then. |
|
|
|
Post by sq225917 on Nov 14, 2019 14:46:53 GMT
Designing hifi without measurements is as likely to yield good results as giving monkeys typewriters is to deliver the complete works of Shakespeare
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 13:17:29 GMT
Well I bet Jez could build good Sh#t with not a monkeys measurement.
All ya need is an RS catalogue.
Job done.
Fuk even I could do it with 3 tenticals tied behind me back.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 13:48:27 GMT
Designing hifi without measurements is as likely to yield good results as giving monkeys typewriters is to deliver the complete works of Shakespeare Bet it took you ages to write that . 😕 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 13:51:09 GMT
Probably measured the spacing though Eng....😀
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 13:54:16 GMT
Comma before 'Eng' please. 😔
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:04:58 GMT
No no and thrice no.
Did you take English at school ?
You mixing colons, semi colons, and apostrophes up with dots n dashes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:14:34 GMT
I was being ....... sarky. 🤪👊
You ducked again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:25:23 GMT
...---...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:39:00 GMT
Too late .... mate.😙🖕
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 14:51:43 GMT
Okay then...
...--.-.--.-..
😂
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 21:30:47 GMT
I don't have a vast amount of experience with valve amps having only ever owned two but I have owned lots of valve radios and tuners (some with amplifiers) from small portables up to the large Pye Continental I now own and they are capable of reproducing some really enjoyable music and the most life like spoken word I've ever heard that wasn't live but like all reproduced sound I've heard from both solid state and valve amps they do add their own flavour which to my ears especially with human voices does add air and space.
I've never heard an original master tape but I've heard some excellent sounding records mastered from both analogue and digital masters I recently bought the all analogue remaster of Grant Green's Born to Be Blue on Blue Note and it sounds really good to my ears but I also own the same record digitally remastered and pressed on to vinyl which was equally as good so again it all boils down to personal preference Record, CD, Tape, Digital File, Solid State, Valve or D Class, one man's musical heaven is another man's ear ache. I have a good friend who just loves the Death Metal band Slayer which makes my ears bleed and he thinks Miles Davis sounds crap. Horses for courses.
|
|
