Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 19:44:59 GMT
Of course it’s not a fair fight on paper because the two are in different weight divisions, but I wanted to try and explain what the differences are.
First the Campion: It’s the most lyrical, serene and composed amp I’d come across. I’ve had a lot of amps through my doors and several have come after the Campion. Every one of them has had their pants pulled down by the Sonneteer, which has left them sounding like they didn’t belong in the same room.
I’ve also ran two Campions together before (the basis of the Orton), and the classiness and verve just ramps up. I’d expected the Orton to be much the same, albeit in a neat single box.
So to the Sonneteer Orton: It’s actually quite different. The first thing that strikes you about the Orton is the sense of power. It’s one of the beefiest amps I’ve had in a long time. It has the sort of qualities I’d expect from a big Exposure, but with more pizazz. It also shares the Exposure-like qualities of being more of a “front row” amp than the Sonneteer Campion. That surprised me and I’m not so sure it’s better.
When the music grows, it really does expand and swell, rather than get loud. It’s a surprisingly dynamic amp and I just can’t understand how a 33 watter can sound the way it does. My speakers are an easy load, so I don’t know how the amp will fare with tricker ones. All I can say is that it’s surprised me in terms of drive and dynamics, which I wasn’t expecting at all.
It’s also clearly “faster”. Naim fans will understand this notion. This is one aspect I’d rather not have. It’s the main area which I feel it loses to the Campion. The speed seems to come at the expense of note decay and vocal phrasing. I need to hear more to see how I ultimately feel about this aspect.
It still does most of the lovely things the Sonneteer Campion does, but the Sonneteer Orton offers a different dimension to the sound which I hadn’t heard anyone else comment on, or lead me to expect. I know my system and room very well. It’s grown dramatically in scale and presence since I installed the Sonneteer Orton. Moreso than in any other area.
Both the baby Campion and the daddy Orton are blindingly good amps AFAIC. Gaining the Orton hasn’t diminished my much loved “baby” in any way. It’s just given me another great amp and I need to figure out where and how to accommodate both. Now all I need is another Sonneteer CD player!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 20:25:48 GMT
So it's been worth all the aggro then!
Good stuff. Well done Jez for applying your expertise!
Glad you're enjoying it.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 20:34:20 GMT
Very much so, but it really has been a different amp to what anyone else has described. The remote volume is also very nice. I usually hate such things because they tend to overshoot and you end faffing up and down. This one is much more useable.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 13, 2019 11:29:19 GMT
I’m trying to update this as I begin to “unpick” the sonic differences between these two amps. I’m kinda getting used to the extra speed of the Orton and I’m appreciating its dynamics. Sonically it’s a tad (just a tad) better than the Campion. Where it loses out, is in the old “air and space” departmnent”. It’s still no slouch, but it’s more forward presentation inevitably means less depth. It’s also less happy at every volume level. The Campion has been unique in not changing with volume, and I’ve found myself listening more and more at lower volumes and still being satisfied. The Orton doesn’t do low level as well but it doesn’t change in nature once it’s above a certain level. I think it’s a bit like the old NAD soft clipping in that the Campion has less contrast between loud and quiet notes, making it happier at low volume. Conversely, the Orton is harder to balance in terms of sound level because getting the quieter pieces to a comfortable level means the louder parts are bigger and bolder than I’m used to. Note decay, vocal inflections and instrument timbre are also traded off a little in the Orton too, on order to give its quicksilver responsiveness. It’s a trade off I’d prefer not to have. It’s small but I’m a picky soul, so it’s there. None of this matters to me because I aim to keep both amps. If you’re sat with a Campion and you’re reading this, I’d like you to realise just how special your amp is to be able to compete with the Orton. The Sonneteer Campion is still my favourite amp of all time and it’s also what I regard to be the biggest bargain in hifi that I’ve come across in 30+ years of box swapping.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 14:06:40 GMT
I’m trying to update this as I begin to “unpick” the sonic differences between these two amps. I’m kinda getting used to the extra speed of the Orton and I’m appreciating its dynamics. Sonically it’s a tad (just a tad) better than the Campion. Where it loses out, is in the old “air and space” departmnent”. It’s still no slouch, but it’s more forward presentation inevitably means less depth. It’s also less happy at every volume level. The Campion has been unique in not changing with volume, and I’ve found myself listening more and more at lower volumes and still being satisfied. The Orton doesn’t do low level as well but it doesn’t change in nature once it’s above a certain level. I think it’s a bit like the old NAD soft clipping in that the Campion has less contrast between loud and quiet notes, making it happier at low volume. Conversely, the Orton is harder to balance in terms of sound level because getting the quieter pieces to a comfortable level means the louder parts are bigger and bolder than I’m used to. Note decay, vocal inflections and instrument timbre are also traded off a little in the Orton too, on order to give its quicksilver responsiveness. It’s a trade off I’d prefer not to have. It’s small but I’m a picky soul, so it’s there. None of this matters to me because I aim to keep both amps. If you’re sat with a Campion and you’re reading this, I’d like you to realise just how special your amp is to be able to compete with the Orton. The Sonneteer Campion is still my favourite amp of all time and it’s also what I regard to be the biggest bargain in hifi that I’ve come across in 30+ years of box swapping. I like the update approach, it drarws a better conclusion.
Sometimes companies hit the magic formula don't they. Then a new model comes along and cannot replicate what you had previously.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 13, 2019 14:15:46 GMT
Yeah, you get it. Haider struck pure gold with the Campion. Any move away from that magic recipe in pursuit of more sonics will somehow lose some of what made the original design great. The magic formula for me will likely be two Campions. I love the amp so much that different usually equals worse.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 21:57:54 GMT
I haven’t listened in a while as I’ve been feeling like crap. I’ll give it a few days and see what I hear after the break. I’m going to try and forget that the amp has changed and just listen to the music
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 21:59:56 GMT
I haven’t listened in a while as I’ve been feeling like crap. I’ll give it a few days and see what I hear after the break. I’m going to try and forget that the amp has changed and just listen to the music Hi Andrew, hope you feel more up to it soon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:04:37 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:12:09 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. Andrew, your old account is still active, you didn't need to rejoin!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:16:46 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. Andrew, your old account is still active, you didn't need to rejoin! I couldn’t sign in and when I asked Proboards they said I’d have to join again. Confusing.....or maybe I’m just easily confused right now lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:17:54 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. I know the feeling. I feel very crap in winter, whereas in summer I just feel moderately crap, but that's just 'cos I'm getting older.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:18:26 GMT
At least it means thee are two accounts with pics of Westies
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:23:21 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. I know the feeling. I feel very crap in winter, whereas in summer I just feel moderately crap, but that's just 'cos I'm getting older. No! You felt like crap since birth! You are genetically grumpy my ole lord!! S.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:42:44 GMT
At least it means thee are two accounts with pics of Westies How strange? OK, I like the fact you have a Westie pup3to gonwoth your new profile lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:55:57 GMT
I know the feeling. I feel very crap in winter, whereas in summer I just feel moderately crap, but that's just 'cos I'm getting older. No! You felt like crap since birth! You are genetically grumpy my ole lord!! S. This time of night you should be tucked up in bed with your teddy Shane.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2019 22:57:49 GMT
Can't sleep, lol.
S.
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Post by antonio on Nov 19, 2019 6:03:35 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. Looks like you're gonna have to put up with one more winter. I know how you feel having just returned from my hols, been back six days and haven't seen the sun. Worst still, going to work today and it's bloody frosty outside, I'm hoping to be off on my travels again in a couple of months.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 18:51:25 GMT
Cheers, Geoff. I had seemed to be picking up but my memory and cognition are up the spout again, so I’m guessing not. I’m headed off to Cyprus in the Spring with the intention of buying another place. Brexit or no Brexit, I can’t see me being able to tolerate another Winter in Britain. If only there was more daylight. Looks like you're gonna have to put up with one more winter. I know how you feel having just returned from my hols, been back six days and haven't seen the sun. Worst still, going to work today and it's bloody frosty outside, I'm hoping to be off on my travels again in a couple of months. There are many good things about Britain but the weather and the short days outweigh them for me. I’m dragging myself on a plane in the next few weeks in order to see if I can find the right place. I can’t stay in Britain
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Post by macca on Nov 21, 2019 19:00:36 GMT
Could you not just winter abroad, just rent a house somewhere light and warm for 12 weeks then come back here for the spring?
I suffer from SAD too so I empathise. I just sleep more and take Vit D, that seems to help.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 19:03:18 GMT
Looks like you're gonna have to put up with one more winter. I know how you feel having just returned from my hols, been back six days and haven't seen the sun. Worst still, going to work today and it's bloody frosty outside, I'm hoping to be off on my travels again in a couple of months. There are many good things about Britain but the weather and the short days outweigh them for me. I’m dragging myself on a plane in the next few weeks in order to see if I can find the right place. I can’t stay in Britain
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:26:03 GMT
Rhyl - Brill.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 22, 2019 9:30:14 GMT
How many Bigman accounts are there? The first posts are now Bigman posts when they're obviously not, other Bigman posts are 'deleted member' and then westoes old account pops up... Alright for those of us who 'know' you both I suppose
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 22, 2019 12:02:06 GMT
How many Bigman accounts are there? The first posts are now Bigman posts when they're obviously not, other Bigman posts are 'deleted member' and then westoes old account pops up... Alright for those of us who 'know' you both I suppose Yes Dave, a bit confusing but when Andrew transferred the forum to me, Proboards also transferred Andrews profile to me, hence him having to rejoin. My original Bigman Account has now been deleted and I have just taken on Andrews old account. Unfortunately that means some of Andrews old posts are now under my name but I can't do anything about it.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 22, 2019 16:45:01 GMT
OK
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 18:43:09 GMT
OK Haha I’m loving the fact some of my mad posts have been attributed to Oliver.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 18:55:28 GMT
OK Haha I’m loving the fact some of my mad posts have been attributed to Oliver. Maybe, but being credited with Oliver's posts could be worrying.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 22, 2019 22:34:28 GMT
OK Haha I’m loving the fact some of my mad posts have been attributed to Oliver. lol, i quite often read a post and think "i dont remember writing that" lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 14:49:51 GMT
My last post on this topic because I’m satisfied I’ve reached a final conclusion that won’t change.
I sat the two amps together a while back and I just wanted to live with them in my room. My suspicion was that my guard was up as soon as the Cyclops....err I mean Orton, was playing. It didn’t matter whether I listened or not to start with. I just wanted to be able to lower my defences and listen openly.
The proof today was when I was able to look at the Campion and imagine it was playing when it was in fact the Orton. The spaciousness came back every single time. It was glorious and it was EXACTLY the experience I’ve had when actually switching amps to my old favourite, the Campion.
I’ve gradually become less and less trustful of the very idea of listening “objectively”. I don’t believe this is possible and it’s little wonder lots of objectivists insist on blind listening. It may have its own flaws in affecting your level of relaxation, but at least it removes preconceptions, prejudices and the things we brung to the table when listening sighted.
I highly doubt I’m the only one affected in this way, although I realise many will not want to admit such a thing, even to themselves.
So where does that leave Campion and Orton? Both sound fabulous and I now have two rooms that will feature Sonneteer amplification. Orton definitely lets me hear tiny, tiny details I hadn’t before but it’s very subtle since the Campion has beaten all else for detail anyway. Other differences? I just don’t have the interest in comparing micro-differences anymore. It’s not a road to happiness or pleasure. I was always keeping both amps anyway. AFAIC I now own the best two amps I’ve heard, so it’s time to listen, enjoy and appreciate,
Over and out,
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Post by antonio on Nov 24, 2019 15:52:21 GMT
Pleased your happy with both amps, it does not surprise me the Orton had the edge.
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