Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2019 16:33:21 GMT
I don't like stepped attenuators. Don't like the feel, don't like being told which steps I can have.
Why are they meant to be so superior to film pots? Is the difference objectively provable and if so, how much of an improvement over a pot? I've used preamps with fancy attenuators yet my current amp with a humble Alps blue pisses on them all. I'm figuring it can't be that important. Am I wrong?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2019 16:35:02 GMT
BTW the £2 Omeg pot used in NVA is a cracker afaic, so the price of an SA seems unjustified to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 16:53:11 GMT
I don't like stepped attenuators. Don't like the feel, don't like being told which steps I can have. Why are they meant to be so superior to film pots? Is the difference objectively provable and if so, how much of an improvement over a pot? I've used preamps with fancy attenuators yet my current amp with a humble Alps blue pisses on them all. I'm figuring it can't be that important. Am I wrong? I like and use stepped attenuators and decent pots and get the impression that stepped attenuators 'seem' to sound better in some circumstances, but I'm not convinced there's anything in it really.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 31, 2019 16:57:46 GMT
Let's assume they use 1% or better resistors in the SA. Many common pots cant manage 5% channel matching, some are even worse at lowest setting. So a SA pretty much guarantees channel matching better than you can hear, that's my primary reason for liking them.
You could then get into arguments for linearity and audibility of different resistor films and foils. But you're chasing vastly diminishing returns at this point.
Some people like fixed steps too.
I've just gone back to a vol pot from a 64 step remote control khozmo. Luckily the vol pot is superbly matched and the taper is friendly enough to the listening levels I use.
Theres good and bad examples of both types.
I lean towards there being quality differences in the sound of some pots, though I felt no loss in going g with my current ko-on tkd pot.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 17:10:31 GMT
My Pre is stepped it drives me daft.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 18:08:07 GMT
Is TVC a rude word here? Mine seems to have maybe a hundred volume steps.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 19:17:31 GMT
Still got a Passive Pre amp i bought from RATA in the 90's..
Sfernice 'P11VYN' Linear Pot with Vishay Bulk Foil Resistors [LFR]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 20:26:03 GMT
I don't like stepped attenuators. Don't like the feel, don't like being told which steps I can have. Why are they meant to be so superior to film pots? Is the difference objectively provable and if so, how much of an improvement over a pot? I've used preamps with fancy attenuators yet my current amp with a humble Alps blue pisses on them all. I'm figuring it can't be that important. Am I wrong? I'm a huge fan of the Stepped attenuator and afaic, pots leave a lot to be desired. I've not tried the tkd one but anything else I have tried, has moved me a step back from the level of transparency a good SA offers. TVC and AVC have been varying In performance. Personally, the ringing often found in either forms of the device puts me off but the Nick Gorham one is a cracker. I bought the relay based Khozmo 64 step off Simon, actually by mistake as I didn't read an advert for it, just knew he had a remote control Khozmo for sale. Wrong type. Doh, But, I am severely impressed by it. I had an alps blue in and the difference between the two isn't subtle. I know there's a large price difference but I've said it a million times, the volume pot is a huge bottleneck. I recently saw the innards of a EAR preamp. It was fitted with a £9 Alps Blue. The preamp cost £10k. Apparently Tim DP doesn't place much value on the components in his gear. His only concern is if its the correct value.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 18:19:27 GMT
Another fan of stepped attenuators here. Much better channel matching and they seem to sound very noticeably more transparent than an Alps Blue Velvet.
I will at some point be making myself a relay based attenuator of 256 steps to replace the Alps Blue passive I use now. "Why are you using the Alps if you don't rate it?" I can't afford anything better! Hence if I want better I have to make it.... 30 hours labour is vastly more doable than spending say £250 for me. I've dug out some old boards with mil spec relays in sufficient quantity for it some time back.... just need a mil spec round tuit now!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 4, 2019 18:23:36 GMT
256 steps would at least solve the problem of not having freedom of choice over volume levels. Things like 24 steps are just too limited for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 18:44:14 GMT
256 steps would at least solve the problem of not having freedom of choice over volume levels. Things like 24 steps are just too limited for me. I bought the 64 step Khozmo of Simon and I couldn't fathom how it wouldn't have enough adjustment for anyone?
super clean and transparent. I am a happy boy!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 18:54:38 GMT
A trick I've used with one of my Alps Blue passives is to wire it as a variable resistor rather than a potentiometer and use it with a fixed resistor as the upper arm of a pot with the Alps as the lower arm. This makes for a good improvement in SQ but at the expense of limited control range... you can't turn it up beyond say 2/3rd's of max volume as even with the Alps fully turned up there is still the fixed resistor in the chain. This no issue if you have plenty of gain from your power amp of course. My modded Leak Stereo 20 is really sensitive so even with the reduced vol control range I can't turn it up beyond about 9 o clock anyway!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 4, 2019 19:42:19 GMT
256 steps would at least solve the problem of not having freedom of choice over volume levels. Things like 24 steps are just too limited for me. I bought the 64 step Khozmo of Simon and I couldn't fathom how it wouldn't have enough adjustment for anyone?
super clean and transparent. I am a happy boy!!
I had a Khozmo and tbh I can’t remember how intrusive the steps were. I preferred the £1 pot in the basic NVA preamp by a mile though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 19:44:09 GMT
I bought the 64 step Khozmo of Simon and I couldn't fathom how it wouldn't have enough adjustment for anyone?
super clean and transparent. I am a happy boy!!
I had a Khozmo and tbh I can’t remember how intrusive the steps were. I preferred the £1 pot in the basic NVA preamp by a mile though. What?!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 4, 2019 19:49:25 GMT
Yep, I know. I really rate that wee pot and I didn’t like the Khozmo at all. Sound wise that is. Build wise it was lovely.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 20:01:41 GMT
I had a Khozmo and tbh I can’t remember how intrusive the steps were. I preferred the £1 pot in the basic NVA preamp by a mile though. What?! The 50p carbon track pot in the Little Bear passive pre-amp (volume control) does a good job. No nasties there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 20:03:24 GMT
The 50p carbon track pot in the Little Bear passive pre-amp (volume control) does a good job. No nasties there. It's not about nasties mate, the Alps blue has no nasties, it's just a filter for all the little details which scupper real transparency.
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