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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 11:59:11 GMT
It looks a pretty basic design (over 20 yrs old) in a large box though with a good transformer. You might find a Rega Fono or budget Musical Fidelity phono stage sounds better today. Maybe look for a used NVA MC amp? I doubt the caps will be shot.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 12:20:43 GMT
Why? They're film caps so *shouldn't* drift in a circuit like this, although I've obviously not measured them - Marantz classic TDA1541 CD playerrs were full of 'em as is my related Micro Seiki and that sounds much as it used to I think. The little bank of supply electrolytics could be looked at although in a cool running low demand phono stage I doubt they've gone off unless they were deliberately under-specified (highly unlikely with this maker). I still think a chat with the manufacturer is called for as they'd know the circuit compromises better than anything, including those green film caps remember, not every circuit does an Alps Blue pot down Oh Dave...... "Film" caps are not all equal. In fact, some are just shite. I'm pretty sure I know what those Green caps are and I can tell you, they can be massively improved on from a SQ perspective for about 39p difference, each. I usually see WIMA as the basic standard of caps and these are not at that level.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 12:21:45 GMT
It looks a pretty basic design (over 20 yrs old) in a large box though with a good transformer. You might find a Rega Fono or budget Musical Fidelity phono stage sounds better today. Maybe look for a used NVA MC amp? I doubt the caps will be shot. Caps arent shot....just doubt they are good enough.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:22:09 GMT
It looks a pretty basic design (over 20 yrs old) in a large box though with a good transformer. You might find a Rega Fono or budget Musical Fidelity phono stage sounds better today. Maybe look for a used NVA MC amp? I doubt the caps will be shot. I had a few of the old NVA Preamps with MC phono, inc the 4 PSU jobbie. I thought the phono stages were rubbish tbh. It always put me off trying the separate phono stages even when I had the amps. I was told by the man himself that the circuit was unchanged, so I doubt I’d like them. to put the Sedley into context, I’ve found about 90% of phono stages unacceptably crap. It just joins a long list and is nowhere near the bottom. hell, I didn’t even like the Iso when I added the Hera. It sounded like a lead weight had been added and it screwed up the timing. lots of contenders would also be ruled out on other grounds, so I am limited: MF I’d never give a penny to after a long history of them building sub standard crap that barely worked. Not to mention dubious practices. Rega are as interesting as cardboard and their stuff looks like plastic toys. The company epitomises mediocrity. Slee stuff is in trashy tin boxes with what looks to be about 50p worth of components. I couldn’t own anything like that. Trichord I’ve tried and would say it’s just about tolerable. Not good enough to go up the range though. low level stuff like Cambridge, project and Glldring would make me sell my vinyl. anything DIY I’d never touch, likewise anything in an off the shelf case built in a bedroom. Just no pride of ownership. I think I’m probably headed back to the Iso for now and then I will have a benchmark. Sometimes I feel vinyl isn’t worth the cost and hassle. I also still feel most phono stages are a rip off at their prices.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:26:10 GMT
Thanks, Dave, my experience has also been that these settings never give night and day changes. I will give the 220pf a shot, but I think the truth is that I just don’t rate the Sedley very highly. Or maybe it’s just not a good match for the OC7 and OC9. If this was a 100 metres race, I’d say it’s a good two yards behind the Dino which I’d probably say was not quite good enough to make the British relay team. I’m not going to close that sort of gap with a small setting change. Pity, as I would’ve loved an all Sonneteer setup. it’s not that it’s weedier. If I can describe the malaise, it’s a bit like the veiling and lack of clarity and extension I found with Audiolab amps. To me that means it’s just not good enough. Tbh it’s a bit like taking my deck out and repacing it with a stock Rega and MM cartridge. Might look for another Iso or Iso HR. Or maybe something different. It would have to be single box and no DIY or hair-shirt/garden shed kit. The problem is in that bank of green capacitors, I'm telling ya! However, I doubt changing the caps would raise its performance anywhere near enough to make you happy. If it's a couple of steps behind the Dino, I'd bin it. Shame that. I’m not doubting you, but even with the Dino, my vinyl outstrips CD. With the Sedley it can’t even compete. I can’t see the caps overturning that deficit. Still, at least I’m sitting enjoying CD incidentally the biggest failing is in spatial presentation. Didn’t you have a problem with that very thing recently? Can’t remember what it was though.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 12:47:09 GMT
The problem is in that bank of green capacitors, I'm telling ya! However, I doubt changing the caps would raise its performance anywhere near enough to make you happy. If it's a couple of steps behind the Dino, I'd bin it. Shame that. I’m not doubting you, but even with the Dino, my vinyl outstrips CD. With the Sedley it can’t even compete. I can’t see the caps overturning that deficit. Still, at least I’m sitting enjoying CD incidentally the biggest failing is in spatial presentation. Didn’t you have a problem with that very thing recently? Can’t remember what it was though. Ooooh, well now You're asking!? Cant remember but as I say, when something goes missing, you notice
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Post by firebottle on Feb 22, 2020 12:54:03 GMT
Why you ask, it's nothing to do with drift. Possibly the values aren't optimum but capacitor dielectrics make a huge difference to the performance. As Oli guesses I would think those green caps are polyester, you want polypropylene or polystyrene in there.
If you'd like me to fettle it to get the best out of it just give me a shout.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:54:19 GMT
I’m not doubting you, but even with the Dino, my vinyl outstrips CD. With the Sedley it can’t even compete. I can’t see the caps overturning that deficit. Still, at least I’m sitting enjoying CD incidentally the biggest failing is in spatial presentation. Didn’t you have a problem with that very thing recently? Can’t remember what it was though. Ooooh, well now You're asking!? Cant remember but as I say, when something goes missing, you notice I think it was at some point you were contemplating getting shot of vinyl. Then I think you heard a better phono stage?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:58:50 GMT
Why you ask, it's nothing to do with drift. Possibly the values aren't optimum but capacitor dielectrics make a huge difference to the performance. As Oli guesses I would think those green caps are polyester, you want polypropylene or polystyrene in there. If you'd like me to fettle it to get the best out of it just give me a shout. Cheers, Alan. To any logical, reasonable person, that would be a godsend. I’m just one of those stubborn and thoroughly unreasonable gits who won’t ever take any product away from stock. If I see anything that’s been modded I just wont have it. It’s nothing to do with doubting the mods will work. I’d be the same with a car restoration. It would have to be back to factory standards, even if better parts were now there.
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Post by firebottle on Feb 22, 2020 13:09:08 GMT
You'd better bin it then.
Virtually everything can be improved with suitable mods. All commercial stuff is built to a price.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 13:12:48 GMT
Ooooh, well now You're asking!? Cant remember but as I say, when something goes missing, you notice I think it was at some point you were contemplating getting shot of vinyl. Then I think you heard a better phono stage? Oh yes, it was the SIMaudio Moon.. The Bigbottle saved my vinyl addiction.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 13:13:51 GMT
You'd better bin it then. Virtually everything can be improved with suitable mods. All commercial stuff is built to a price. Hahaha, brutal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 13:26:03 GMT
You'd better bin it then. Virtually everything can be improved with suitable mods. All commercial stuff is built to a price. I get that but not everyone is a modder or hot-rodder. I’d far rather move something on if I don’t like it than mess with it. As long as you buy used there’s no loss. Just means going through a few bits until you find something that works for you. Compared to my thoughts on headphones, I’ve been kind to the phono stages I’ve tried lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 13:28:21 GMT
You'd better bin it then. Virtually everything can be improved with suitable mods. All commercial stuff is built to a price. Hahaha, brutal. It’s absolutely true. If you’re not a modder, you need to bin off the stuff that doesn’t float your boat. Thankfully your “junk” is usually someone else’s “just right” and buying used means you have no loss other than any pain inflicted on your ears!
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 13:53:49 GMT
It’s absolutely true. If you’re not a modder, you need to bin off the stuff that doesn’t float your boat. Thankfully your “junk” is usually someone else’s “just right” and buying used means you have no loss other than any pain inflicted on your ears! Yup...I cant see you losing much at all. They dont seem to come up all that often so somewhere s Soneteer guy may just be looking for a Black Sedley
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 14:04:33 GMT
Well I’d have to try every single viable setting before I landed on the only one that works.
Best by far is 100pf 100ohm. Soundstage is far better. Still too soft on all leading edges though. Same thing I disliked about the NVA phonostages in their preamps. It’s like someone came along and fitted those baby-safe corner guards on all the edges of the music. Others might like a bit of softness but impact is a biggie for me. It’s why I’ve always loved the Xerxes so much. Also what I probably like so much about the OC9.
Incidentally my Dino was set to the same dip switch positions. I think it came that way so I guess I was lucky.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 14:40:29 GMT
It looks a pretty basic design (over 20 yrs old) in a large box though with a good transformer. You might find a Rega Fono or budget Musical Fidelity phono stage sounds better today. Maybe look for a used NVA MC amp? I doubt the caps will be shot. I had a few of the old NVA Preamps with MC phono, inc the 4 PSU jobbie. I thought the phono stages were rubbish tbh. It always put me off trying the separate phono stages even when I had the amps. I was told by the man himself that the circuit was unchanged, so I doubt I’d like them. to put the Sedley into context, I’ve found about 90% of phono stages unacceptably crap. It just joins a long list and is nowhere near the bottom. hell, I didn’t even like the Iso when I added the Hera. It sounded like a lead weight had been added and it screwed up the timing. lots of contenders would also be ruled out on other grounds, so I am limited: MF I’d never give a penny to after a long history of them building sub standard crap that barely worked. Not to mention dubious practices. Rega are as interesting as cardboard and their stuff looks like plastic toys. The company epitomises mediocrity. Slee stuff is in trashy tin boxes with what looks to be about 50p worth of components. I couldn’t own anything like that. Trichord I’ve tried and would say it’s just about tolerable. Not good enough to go up the range though. low level stuff like Cambridge, project and Glldring would make me sell my vinyl. anything DIY I’d never touch, likewise anything in an off the shelf case built in a bedroom. Just no pride of ownership. I think I’m probably headed back to the Iso for now and then I will have a benchmark. Sometimes I feel vinyl isn’t worth the cost and hassle. I also still feel most phono stages are a rip off at their prices. You are going back a while when MF were sort of slung together. The stuff actually became more professional when most manufacture went to Taiwan. It's now owned and run by Project who do a good job on higher end stuff even if their budget TTs are crap. Rega have put some serious engineering into more recent products but I have to say the lightweight design doesn't sit well with the asking price for me. SME have priced themselves out of the market for all but the uber rich. Can't say there is any really good phono stages I know off much less than a grand. The Rega Fono isn't bad and probably better than the Sedley. How about a used Aria? Have you tried Lehmann, Edwards Audio or Clearaudio? You are going back a while when MF were sort of slung together. The stuff actually became more professional when most manufacture went to Taiwan. It's now owned and run by Project who do a good job on higher end stuff even if their budget TTs are crap. Rega have put some serious engineering into more recent products but I have to say the lightweight design doesn't sit well with the asking price for me. SME have priced themselves out of the market for all but the uber rich. Can't say there is any really good phono stages I know off much less than a grand. The Rega Fono isn't bad and probably better than the Sedley. How about a used Aria? Have you tried Lehmann, Edwards Audio or Clearaudio? All these should be plentiful second hand.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 14:59:39 GMT
I’m leaning more to waiting for a used LFD but will probs go for an Iso first as a benchmark. Unless I spot something “left field”. The 100 ohms 100pf has done more than I thought possible but I really do want something with more bite, clarity and starkness to it. At 100 ohms/100pf it’s probably a toss up with the Dino but I was already looking for more than that. I realise you’re right about MF but I guess it takes time to lose my Michaelson phobia . Edwards Audio and Angle Audio etc are just not the sort of things I could own. They just look so inferior in build to things like the Breeze Audio amp that cost £16 inc delivery from China. I just can’t see the value in them. I’d be amazed if the Rega Phono was even close to the Sedley (for me at least). The stages in their amps are pretty much unusable for me. Just so woooly......and that’s coming from someone with a black sheep! Lots of this is so much down to personal tastes, and I think phono stages are like cartridges in that you can often love or hate things others feel the opposite way about. Lots of people say the Iso was only any good with the Hera yet I thought it was a big hindrance. I still don’t get that one but nothing in hifi seems to be as it would first appear.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:11:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:14:57 GMT
Thanks for that. It’s not something I’ve seen before but it looks both interesting and good value. Will do some reading. I’ve already put a watch on it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:32:30 GMT
Andrew, Have you tried one of those Arkless modded phono-stages?
S.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
Andrew, Have you tried one of those Arkless modded phono-stages? S. I did a comparison with MF cheapest and NVA. Came 3rd.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:38:57 GMT
Andrew, Have you tried one of those Arkless modded phono-stages? S. No. I was curious and I have a lot of respect for Jez’s capabilities. It was a case of it being a modded Cambridge that stopped me. “Modded” is a stretch because there’s so little of tne original left, but I couldn’t own something in that trashy case and bearing a Cambridge Audio logo. It’s probably like a car enthusiast refusing to drive a hot rodded Kia. Some people don’t give two hoots about the looks. Others could live with tne if the sound warranted it. I just know I couldn’t do that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:42:22 GMT
Each to their own!
How are you getting on with the Schiit Asgard 2? I was watching a Graham Slee ULDE Headphone amp. But I thought the price of £670 is too much. The parts inside looks, well meh!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:48:19 GMT
Each to their own! How are you getting on with the Schiit Asgard 2? I was watching a Graham Slee ULDE Headphone amp. But I thought the price of £670 is too much. The parts inside looks, well meh! S. It’s a funny one: You compare Asgard and Magni 2 Uber directly and the Asgard is clearer and more extended. An easy winner. You can probably guess what I wil say next though....... Since I wired in the Asgard, I’ve almost completely stopped bothering with headphones. It just doesn’t seem as enjoyable as the baby one. Oliver will be jumping up and down with joy when I say this, but I honestly think it’s the Alps Blue in the Asgard that spoils it. Of course I have little foundation for that but many Alps Blue equipped products seem to have a signature I’m picking up on. A bit like an artificial additive that you don’t pick up on initially in veggie food, but which becomes obvious over time. I also feel that the 10k pots are far less intrusive than tne 50k ones. The only 100k one I was subjected to, replace a 75p guitar pot in an Audio Innovations 300 and killed the amp’s sound stone dead. the Slee stuff always looks to me as though it should be sub-Schiit prices. Maybe a competitor for low-end Project stuff. I’m only basing this on perceived build and value. I’ve never heard any of it and it may be wonderful for all I know. I just know I wouldn’t buy or own any of it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 16:23:40 GMT
Never heard the Schiit Magni 2 Uber. Does it sound good? Do you use the gain switches on it, Andrew?
S.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 18:54:46 GMT
Yeah it’s a lively wee thing. Like a “puppy” version of the Asgard. I always set gain to high on everything.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 19:43:23 GMT
Each to their own! How are you getting on with the Schiit Asgard 2? I was watching a Graham Slee ULDE Headphone amp. But I thought the price of £670 is too much. The parts inside looks, well meh! S. You still need to hear one. Like most HiFi, the parts inside can be a bit of a disappointment, but don’t forget you are paying for a U.K. made product, and not something assembled in China.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 20:33:42 GMT
I’ve spent more time faffing than listening, Another cable issue led to me having to tear everything apart and put it all back. I ended up with a far better result and that softness and lack of space has improved no end. I will have to listen more to tell more but it’s quite some way from where I started. I still want a vinyl sound that beats what I’ve had, so I will likely be buying again, but I can’t honestly say the sound is bad or displeasing anymore. This Sedley is probably a bit better than my last one but I need more.
Only 3 possible causes for the improvement, as far as I can see:
1. I took the lid of the Sedley because the earth terminal was loose. I soon discovered that the solid wire rising up from the PCB which joins to this terminal had snapped. No idea why I wasn’t getting any hum? Could that have affected the sound? 2. I have 11 bits plugged into 2 multi blocks. Nothing is plugged where it was, including the router. All the cabling has also been moved. Did the Sedley not like something on the mains? Or maybe some cabling route. I use screened cables by and large. 3. I reset the tracking weight by ear. I had only roughly set the arm back up when it came back from Johnnie. It’s tracking lighter now, but maybe only 0.2-0.3
I had forgotten how faffy vinyl can be. I will be faffing more over the coming days but thank god I don’t have to mess around with bloody dip switches on the back of an item again.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 22, 2020 20:56:37 GMT
I’ve spent more time faffing than listening, Another cable issue led to me having to tear everything apart and put it all back. I ended up with a far better result and that softness and lack of space has improved no end. I will have to listen more to tell more but it’s quite some way from where I started. I still want a vinyl sound that beats what I’ve had, so I will likely be buying again, but I can’t honestly say the sound is bad or displeasing anymore. This Sedley is probably a bit better than my last one but I need more. Only 3 possible causes for the improvement, as far as I can see: 1. I took the lid of the Sedley because the earth terminal was loose. I soon discovered that the solid wire rising up from the PCB which joins to this terminal had snapped. No idea why I wasn’t getting any hum? Could that have affected the sound? 2. I have 11 bits plugged into 2 multi blocks. Nothing is plugged where it was, including the router. All the cabling has also been moved. Did the Sedley not like something on the mains? Or maybe some cabling route. I use screened cables by and large. 3. I reset the tracking weight by ear. I had only roughly set the arm back up when it came back from Johnnie. It’s tracking lighter now, but maybe only 0.2-0.3 I had forgotten how faffy vinyl can be. I will be faffing more over the coming days but thank god I don’t have to mess around with bloody dip switches on the back of an item again. There could be absolutely any number of reasons for the Initial underwhelming sound. Personally, 11 items in multiplug connectors is a big red flag. A broken wire is also never a good thing but even if you arent getting any hum, it can effect hiw the signal behaves. Keep fiddling with it.
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