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Post by dsjr on Nov 9, 2019 12:09:42 GMT
Neither would I. The ASR tests do seem to indicate that good modern dacs pay attention to the DC inputs and it seems a few casual recommendations for 'clean' smps supplies filter out from time to time... It actually seems that larger linear types can be worse for hum induction or summat...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 12:28:32 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC. Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. It;s generally only equipment designed before CD that can have problems with input overload. And then of course only gear that has amplification before the vol control. A passive or an integrated or pre amp that has the vol control as the first thing the signal see's is inherently overload proof. I regard a pre amp as the least important part of the chain. They are difficult to get wrong and a passive is both virtually perfect and has hardly any parts in it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 12:35:03 GMT
Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. It;s generally only equipment designed before CD that can have problems with input overload. And then of course only gear that has amplification before the vol control. A passive or an integrated or pre amp that has the vol control as the first thing the signal see's is inherently overload proof. I regard a pre amp as the least important part of the chain. They are difficult to get wrong and a passive is both virtually perfect and has hardly any parts in it. Yup, cant argue with your thoughts on the passive.
Just wish they had a bit of drive.
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 12:38:34 GMT
Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. It;s generally only equipment designed before CD that can have problems with input overload. And then of course only gear that has amplification before the vol control. A passive or an integrated or pre amp that has the vol control as the first thing the signal see's is inherently overload proof. I regard a pre amp as the least important part of the chain. They are difficult to get wrong and a passive is both virtually perfect and has hardly any parts in it. I don't understand then why there can be such a difference between pre-amps, even between passive pre-amps?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2019 13:33:19 GMT
Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. It;s generally only equipment designed before CD that can have problems with input overload. And then of course only gear that has amplification before the vol control. A passive or an integrated or pre amp that has the vol control as the first thing the signal see's is inherently overload proof. I regard a pre amp as the least important part of the chain. They are difficult to get wrong and a passive is both virtually perfect and has hardly any parts in it. Well that’s something I’ve learned. As my electronics knowledge is almost nil, Jez has probably just increased it by 25%! I really do need to learn more, but understanding physics or electronics just seems “uphill” for me at every turn. I guess I’m just not wired that way.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2019 13:39:27 GMT
WARNING! THE IMAGES YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE ARE TOO CUTE! upload png imageWhat a lovely little thing! I’m assuming it works although it may take me a while to be bothered trying it out. I bought it for the cuteness factor and I’m not disappointed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 13:56:41 GMT
I don't agree that there are any differences between passive pre amps of the switched attenuator variety and which are of the same value and topology. A £150 passive and £5000 passive will sound identical if of the same topology. They are literally perfect and have no lack of drive or dynamics. In fact technically they trounce any other pre for dynamics, as in the technical meaning of dynamic range. They are low noise and can't clip so have the widest dynamic range possible.... way more than any system could handle or need in fact.
Power amps are where the big differences are found!
The most popular pres seem to be the worst ones! IE ones that colour the sound through added 2nd harmonic distortion etc and make it all a bit more "rose tinted specs"... we're generally talking valve ones here... Although valves can give as low distortion as SS... but that seems to not be what people want!
All a pre has to do is control volume.... a passive will do that perfectly. if active then it's just a passive with a X 2-3 amplifier or a buffer added... there is bugger all to it, and at line level, and with either no gain or X 2-3 it is hard to generate much distortion, noise or worse that flat from 20Hz to 20KHz FR unless you are completely inept or trying to do just that...
A pot (or much better a stepped attenuator) plus a single dual op amp and 2-3 resistors per channel is all you need to make an active pre of state of the art specs. Obviously you need a PSU but it can be low spec.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 14:51:02 GMT
WARNING! THE IMAGES YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE ARE TOO CUTE! upload png imageWhat a lovely little thing! I’m assuming it works although it may take me a while to be bothered trying it out. I bought it for the cuteness factor and I’m not disappointed. It has considerable potential as something to be modded into a much better unit!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2019 17:38:29 GMT
I did wonder about that. I’m often reluctant to take stuff away from stock, but AI stuff was usually poorly built with sub-par components. In my head, that kinda justifies changing its internals. It’s like I’m painting something worthwhile over bad graffiti rather than defacing the Mona Lisa. After Xmas I am hoping to be picking up health-wise. I’d be interested in having it upgraded if you fancy taking a look at it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 21:26:34 GMT
I don't agree that there are any differences between passive pre amps of the switched attenuator variety and which are of the same value and topology. A £150 passive and £5000 passive will sound identical if of the same topology. They are literally perfect and have no lack of drive or dynamics. In fact technically they trounce any other pre for dynamics, as in the technical meaning of dynamic range. They are low noise and can't clip so have the widest dynamic range possible.... way more than any system could handle or need in fact. Power amps are where the big differences are found! The most popular pres seem to be the worst ones! IE ones that colour the sound through added 2nd harmonic distortion etc and make it all a bit more "rose tinted specs"... we're generally talking valve ones here... Although valves can give as low distortion as SS... but that seems to not be what people want! All a pre has to do is control volume.... a passive will do that perfectly. if active then it's just a passive with a X 2-3 amplifier or a buffer added... there is bugger all to it, and at line level, and with either no gain or X 2-3 it is hard to generate much distortion, noise or worse that flat from 20Hz to 20KHz FR unless you are completely inept or trying to do just that... A pot (or much better a stepped attenuator) plus a single dual op amp and 2-3 resistors per channel is all you need to make an active pre of state of the art specs. Obviously you need a PSU but it can be low spec. Well we definitely agree on the worst Ones being the most popular. Sometimes I feel like a passive doesn't quite have the grip over the LF that I think it should. That's my only gripe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 0:27:02 GMT
I did wonder about that. I’m often reluctant to take stuff away from stock, but AI stuff was usually poorly built with sub-par components. In my head, that kinda justifies changing its internals. It’s like I’m painting something worthwhile over bad graffiti rather than defacing the Mona Lisa. After Xmas I am hoping to be picking up health-wise. I’d be interested in having it upgraded if you fancy taking a look at it. Sure yeah but what I meant, just to be clear, was using it as the basis of a new 1 valve pre amp of my own design
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2019 4:46:36 GMT
I did wonder about that. I’m often reluctant to take stuff away from stock, but AI stuff was usually poorly built with sub-par components. In my head, that kinda justifies changing its internals. It’s like I’m painting something worthwhile over bad graffiti rather than defacing the Mona Lisa. After Xmas I am hoping to be picking up health-wise. I’d be interested in having it upgraded if you fancy taking a look at it. Sure yeah but what I meant, just to be clear, was using it as the basis of a new 1 valve pre amp of my That would also interest me. It’s the looks I’m fond of and I have no doubt you could easily better the existing design.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 7:41:18 GMT
DC is just DC. If the quality is good and current adequate, SMPS or LPS should make no odds. And I don't want anybody going on about HF artifacts with SMPS, they don't occur if the filtering is there. Arent they just below the audible range in well designed kit?
BTW, the Pecan, the Neurochrome Pre and the Neurochrome Power amps are all using SMPS. Would never have thought I would have said that 1 year ago!
I have a Musical Fidelity smps that cost me £60 nos on eBay and can drive 3 units and has improved the DAC not sure about the Phono stage as never tried it without. I’m not sure but can’t see why this can’t drive any electronically matched kit and I’ve so must be a bargain.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2019 10:52:30 GMT
I’ve been testing the AI preamp to make sure it’s working. Thankfully it’s fine, but it’s kinda surprised me. I don’t have a power amp and I didn’t wnat to use it into either Sonneteer amp or through my speakers in case of an issue, I ended up feeding my CD Player into it and then feeding isn’t outputs into the Schiit headphone amp with its volume whacked up.
Results? It sounds great! Perky, silky and great fun. I hope it retains those traits when used with a system. It’s s very quiet design which I hadn’t expected. I’m very pleased with my latest toy/trinket.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 11:09:00 GMT
After it sitting unused for about 3 months, I wired in my subwoofer today. It’s literally brought another dimension to my sound. Best of all, there are no downsides. I now own the best system I’ve ever heard. No going back for me. My TC-50s worked fabulously with a REL sub, but the 60s reach a bit lower and I think this sub is a better too. The cumulative effect is beyond magical. It takes a lot to shock me in hifi these days, but this one has.
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Post by karma67 on Nov 28, 2019 17:12:04 GMT
After it sitting unused for about 3 months, I wired in my subwoofer today. It’s literally brought another dimension to my sound. Best of all, there are no downsides. I now own the best system I’ve ever heard. No going back for me. My TC-50s worked fabulously with a REL sub, but the 60s reach a bit lower and I think this sub is a better too. The cumulative effect is beyond magical. It takes a lot to shock me in hifi these days, but this one has. i was thinking of getting a sub to try out with my ma 952 md's,how do you wire it in?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2019 17:17:29 GMT
After it sitting unused for about 3 months, I wired in my subwoofer today. It’s literally brought another dimension to my sound. Best of all, there are no downsides. I now own the best system I’ve ever heard. No going back for me. My TC-50s worked fabulously with a REL sub, but the 60s reach a bit lower and I think this sub is a better too. The cumulative effect is beyond magical. It takes a lot to shock me in hifi these days, but this one has. i was thinking of getting a sub to try out with my ma 952 md's,how do you wire it in? Both my amps have L&R preamp outs, so I just take the feed from there to the phono inputs on the sub. If you haven’t got preamp outs, you can take a feed from the speaker outputs to an XLR on most RELs.
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Post by antonio on Nov 29, 2019 6:05:43 GMT
Good to hear the sub is doing it for your system, but which sub did you go for in the end?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 6:26:25 GMT
It's a Mission M70AS. Only a 10" bass unit but I think it gels better then the RELs I've had, and they were very good. The sound reminds me very much of the best I was able to squeeze out of Townshend Glastonburys.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 6:46:45 GMT
Beware the novelty value. I tried two subs with a stand mount set up in the early noughties. At first , like you I thought it was amazing. Then the 'summat not quite right' feeling crept in. After another month of tweaking the potion as the polarity and delay or whatever , I got rid. It was an unnatural unconnected marriage of the two systems that I never got to sound as one . A gap somewhere in the sound and the timing. Hard to explain and I hope you don't suffer the same fate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 15:30:33 GMT
I now have the Campion in my upstairs system and it’s utterly gorgeous with an Arcam Apha Plus CD and Rega Elas. Giant step up from the Breeze T Amp. The Campion will always be my favourite ever piece of kit. The serenity it brings to whatever it’s linked to is a delight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 15:38:53 GMT
You was born to love the Campion!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 20:04:49 GMT
A somewhat disjointed update, I’m likely to be back and forth between Cyprus and Blighty for a bit as I look for another Cyprus pad. Flights are dirt cheap so it’s a good opportunity. I am also far healthier over there. In the meantime. I have bought the odd bargain, largely for amusement.
I bought a Denon TU260L mk2 tuner for £8 inc postage! I snapped up one of those blue LAD decks with the Jelco SA370H arm. Just too cheap to miss. I might keep the arm. Or it may sit unused for ages until I need space. I also bought more Grado RS2s this time the RS2i. Might keep them for a bit.
As I will be around less to listen to hifi and also to receive parcels, I may try and stay away from eBay bargain hunting. Or I might just send the bits to mates, depending on my mood.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 21:15:53 GMT
Let me know your thoughts on the RS2i.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 21:41:21 GMT
A somewhat disjointed update, I’m likely to be back and forth between Cyprus and Blighty for a bit as I look for another Cyprus pad. Flights are dirt cheap so it’s a good opportunity. I am also far healthier over there. In the meantime. I have bought the odd bargain, largely for amusement. I bought a Denon TU260L mk2 tuner for £8 inc postage! I snapped up one of those blue LAD decks with the Jelco SA370H arm. Just too cheap to miss. I might keep the arm. Or it may sit unused for ages until I need space. I also bought more Grado RS2s this time the RS2i. Might keep them for a bit. As I will be around less to listen to hifi and also to receive parcels, I may try and stay away from eBay bargain hunting. Or I might just send the bits to mates, depending on my mood. Those LAD turntables were supposed to be pretty decent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 22:03:47 GMT
A somewhat disjointed update, I’m likely to be back and forth between Cyprus and Blighty for a bit as I look for another Cyprus pad. Flights are dirt cheap so it’s a good opportunity. I am also far healthier over there. In the meantime. I have bought the odd bargain, largely for amusement. I bought a Denon TU260L mk2 tuner for £8 inc postage! I snapped up one of those blue LAD decks with the Jelco SA370H arm. Just too cheap to miss. I might keep the arm. Or it may sit unused for ages until I need space. I also bought more Grado RS2s this time the RS2i. Might keep them for a bit. As I will be around less to listen to hifi and also to receive parcels, I may try and stay away from eBay bargain hunting. Or I might just send the bits to mates, depending on my mood. Those LAD turntables were supposed to be pretty decent. I've always liked the look of them and fancied trying one.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 22:35:37 GMT
Those LAD turntables were supposed to be pretty decent. I've always liked the look of them and fancied trying one. Unlikely I'll try another TT now. Shame really but seems a bit pointless after an SP10. Unless a Totl Kuzma comes up cheap, I like the look of them.
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Post by antonio on Dec 17, 2019 5:42:05 GMT
Good luck with your property hunting Westie. I'm going away to warmer climes at the end of the month.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 22:08:15 GMT
Let me know your thoughts on the RS2i. S. They are supposed to be a bit more spacious than the RS2e, so I’m hoping they will suit me. Putting the valve Pre in as a buffer has really given a sense of space, so I’m hoping to take that a step further.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 22:09:11 GMT
Those LAD turntables were supposed to be pretty decent. I've always liked the look of them and fancied trying one. Me too. They look well made and I like Jelco arms.
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