dabs
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Posts: 34
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:07:04 GMT
Good morning
I know it’s a tricky subject - but I’m having a move around in my room and need to lengthen my speaker wire! So I’m going to upgrade it. I’d like a recommendation of a warmer sounding cable as my system is quite bright sounding. I’m not looking to spend mega money but don’t want budget. My setup consists of a AT440MLB cartridge on a Audiomods tone arm and a gyro dec with marantz pm8005 amp and finally tannoy revolution xt 8f speakers.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
dabs
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Post by karma67 on Sept 18, 2022 8:13:06 GMT
i would recommend van damme hifi cable, the clear shotgun type.
not too expensive and great value.if you're near brighton i have various thicknesses you can try.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 18, 2022 8:16:17 GMT
Warmer is a relative term.
It would help if you said what speaker cables you are using at the moment!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 8:22:46 GMT
If the system is bright sounding, then I suggest to look at the tone arm cable, and check the capacitance.
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dabs
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:34:24 GMT
Warmer is a relative term. It would help if you said what speaker cables you are using at the moment! Hi there - sorry lol. I’m using van damme loudspeaker LC - OF6 263 504 -000 2x4.0 mm |
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dabs
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:35:49 GMT
Warmer is a relative term. It would help if you said what speaker cables you are using at the moment! This is basically what I’m using at mo. Clearly why I purchased this wire 10 years ago lol. Thank you j |
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dabs
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:36:29 GMT
If the system is bright sounding, then I suggest to look at the tone arm cable, and check the capacitance. Thank you. |
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dabs
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:39:15 GMT
Warmer is a relative term. It would help if you said what speaker cables you are using at the Hi there - sorry lol. I’m using van damme loudspeaker LC - OF6 263 504 -000 2x4.0 mm |
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dabs
Prospect
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 8:40:34 GMT
i would recommend van damme hifi cable, the clear shotgun type. not too expensive and great value.if you're near brighton i have various thicknesses you can try. This is basically what I’m using. Clearly why I chose it all them years ago. |
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Post by lurch on Sept 18, 2022 8:57:43 GMT
Check your vta as the cart may be riding a tad nose down. If the arm/cart is dead level then try running slightly tail down. For Rega geometry arms dropping the height at the pivot point by 1mm = a 0.3° change in the stylus rake angle. Making the cart slightly tail down would give a bit more body & richness, have a play to see what suits you. Also try moving your speakers back a bit towards the wall to reinforce the bass a tad. Another possibility to consider with mm carts is capacitance, it could be that you need to add some. To do so get a pair of rca splitters (for 2:1 needs) and plug them into the phono in on your PS, stick the phono leads into 1 branch and make up a couple of loading plugs (with say 50 & 100pf) and stick a pair in the spare branch, to see if that helps matters.  |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Sept 18, 2022 9:13:57 GMT
I spent years trying to tame the sound of bright sounding systems, and it isn't easy. You can go round in circles for a long time. Reviews of your speakers describe them as needing careful system matching as they are reasonably forward sounding. I have personally found Marantz kit slightly forward also.
You could try changing the speaker cables and I'm sure that would help, but (from my experience) you may not reach your desired sound.
How well damped is your room? You may be able able to soften the sound considerably by adding more soft furnishings and absorption. Do you have hard floors? Thick carpets/rugs are good. Wall hangings/heavy curtains etc. Any photos of the setup/room would help
Brightness can be hard to to pin down too. It can be excessive high frequencies, but, more often than not, it is an accentuation of a frequency in the speech range - this could somewhere in the 1-4kHz range.
Sorry, that's a terrible answer! I guess I'm trying to say be careful. You could spend a lot of time and money trying to solve the problem and not quite get there. I would start with the following:
- Check room is well damped enough and not too 'bright'. Add extra sound absorption and diffusion if required.
- try to home demo some other kit - your source, amp and speakers may be contributing to the problem. Free home demos (or borrow kit from friends) can be a great way to try other kit.
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dabs
Prospect
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 10:21:26 GMT
Check your vta as the cart may be riding a tad nose down. If the arm/cart is dead level then try running slightly tail down. For Rega geometry arms dropping the height at the pivot point by 1mm = a 0.3° change in the stylus rake angle. Making the cart slightly tail down would give a bit more body & richness, have a play to see what suits you. Also try moving your speakers back a bit towards the wall to reinforce the bass a tad. Another possibility to consider with mm carts is capacitance, it could be that you need to add some. To do so get a pair of rca splitters (for 2:1 needs) and plug them into the phono in on your PS, stick the phono leads into 1 branch and make up a couple of loading plugs (with say 50 & 100pf) and stick a pair in the spare branch, to see if that helps matters. Hi there, I’ve adjust the vta and can’t believe the difference that’s made. There is actually a vta micrometer I can upgrade my arm with. I’m so going to have that fitted with my next service. Also I’ve moved the speakers closer to the wall. Thank you for your help. |
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Post by macca on Sept 18, 2022 10:31:12 GMT
I spent years trying to tame the sound of bright sounding systems, and it isn't easy. You can go round in circles for a long time. Reviews of your speakers describe them as needing careful system matching as they are reasonably forward sounding. I have personally found Marantz kit slightly forward also. You could try changing the speaker cables and I'm sure that would help, but (from my experience) you may not reach your desired sound. How well damped is your room? You may be able able to soften the sound considerably by adding more soft furnishings and absorption. Do you have hard floors? Thick carpets/rugs are good. Wall hangings/heavy curtains etc. Any photos of the setup/room would help Brightness can be hard to to pin down too. It can be excessive high frequencies, but, more often than not, it is an accentuation of a frequency in the speech range - this could somewhere in the 1-4kHz range. Sorry, that's a terrible answer! I guess I'm trying to say be careful. You could spend a lot of time and money trying to solve the problem and not quite get there. I would start with the following: - Check room is well damped enough and not too 'bright'. Add extra sound absorption and diffusion if required. - try to home demo some other kit - your source, amp and speakers may be contributing to the problem. Free home demos (or borrow kit from friends) can be a great way to try other kit. This is what I was going to post (except I don't agree that amps can be intrinsically bright or forward) but the speakers certainly are. You won't fix that with cables. Look at damping down the room some more. Does not need to be professional treatment. Carpet, rugs, curtains, cushions, shelves of books and records. large potted plants. lamps with fabric shades - basically all the stuff people used to have in their rooms until Swedish furniture, hard flooring and minimalism became fashionable. Angle the speakers so they do not point directly at you (if not already). Put something absorbing behind the listening position - pillow, cushion. That alone will calm things down. Failing that, use analogue or digital EQ. Last resort - change the loudspeakers. |
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Post by macca on Sept 18, 2022 10:44:42 GMT
Actually I was thinking of the XT6 not the XT8, which I can't find any measurement for. But if you look at the FR of the XT6 you see the problem right away:  The HF peaks up about 7db from 2Khz upwards. A peak of 3dB would mean those frequencies will sound twice as loud as the frequencies below 2Khz so you can imagine the effect of a 7dB peak. Super-bright. If the XT8 is the same - and I bet it is very similar - that's your problem right there. No cable can sort that out. |
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Post by lurch on Sept 18, 2022 10:53:27 GMT
Check your vta as the cart may be riding a tad nose down. If the arm/cart is dead level then try running slightly tail down. For Rega geometry arms dropping the height at the pivot point by 1mm = a 0.3° change in the stylus rake angle. Making the cart slightly tail down would give a bit more body & richness, have a play to see what suits you. Also try moving your speakers back a bit towards the wall to reinforce the bass a tad. Another possibility to consider with mm carts is capacitance, it could be that you need to add some. To do so get a pair of rca splitters (for 2:1 needs) and plug them into the phono in on your PS, stick the phono leads into 1 branch and make up a couple of loading plugs (with say 50 & 100pf) and stick a pair in the spare branch, to see if that helps matters. Hi there, I’ve adjust the vta and can’t believe the difference that’s made. There is actually a vta micrometer I can upgrade my arm with. I’m so going to have that fitted with my next service. Also I’ve moved the speakers closer to the wall. Thank you for your help. Glad my advice on vta & speaker adjustment has helped matters. When you quote next time go to the very end of the text + hit return to drop a line, so your response isn't buried with original text. It's now in bold so others can see it. Took me a while to spot your response. 🤣 |
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Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,006
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Post by Arke on Sept 18, 2022 10:56:28 GMT
Actually I was thinking of the XT6 not the XT8, which I can't find any measurement for. But if you look at the FR of the XT6 you see the problem right away: The HF peaks up about 7db from 2Khz upwards. A peak of 3dB would mean those frequencies will sound twice as loud as the frequencies below 2Khz so you can imagine the effect of a 7dB peak. Super-bright. If the XT8 is the same - and I bet it is very similar - that's your problem right there. No cable can sort that out. Great detective work. That's what I'd suspected - too much energy where the ear is very sensitive. |
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dabs
Prospect
Posts: 34
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 10:57:53 GMT
I spent years trying to tame the sound of bright sounding systems, and it isn't easy. You can go round in circles for a long time. Reviews of your speakers describe them as needing careful system matching as they are reasonably forward sounding. I have personally found Marantz kit slightly forward also. You could try changing the speaker cables and I'm sure that would help, but (from my experience) you may not reach your desired sound. How well damped is your room? You may be able able to soften the sound considerably by adding more soft furnishings and absorption. Do you have hard floors? Thick carpets/rugs are good. Wall hangings/heavy curtains etc. Any photos of the setup/room would help Brightness can be hard to to pin down too. It can be excessive high frequencies, but, more often than not, it is an accentuation of a frequency in the speech range - this could somewhere in the 1-4kHz range. Sorry, that's a terrible answer! I guess I'm trying to say be careful. You could spend a lot of time and money trying to solve the problem and not quite get there. I would start with the following: - Check room is well damped enough and not too 'bright'. Add extra sound absorption and diffusion if required. - try to home demo some other kit - your source, amp and speakers may be contributing to the problem. Free home demos (or borrow kit from friends) can be a great way to try other kit. I’ve actually adjusted the vta this morning as lurch suggested and it’s made miles of difference, and I’ve moved the speakers closer to the wall. you’re absolutely right my amp and speakers aren’t the best team for softer sounding music, I am actually thinking of changing my amp at some point. As you mentioned my room doesn’t do me any favours either as you’ll see in the photo. Thank you for you sound advice. ![]() |
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Post by stryder5 on Sept 18, 2022 11:34:50 GMT
I seem to have a bit of a thing about the At 440 mlb, no matter what I tried with loading, capacitance, setup. It always sounded bright and thin.
I’ve had many cartridges that don’t exhibit these trends.
Currently have a AT vm540 l that I’m trying, changing all settings gets me to a place where it sounds veiled .
Gary
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Post by lurch on Sept 18, 2022 11:42:19 GMT
Picked up a RigB VM95ML of pfm in the week for 2nd system (now have 4 carts for it) it sounds absolutely stonking for very little money.
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dabs
Prospect
Posts: 34
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Post by dabs on Sept 18, 2022 16:45:57 GMT
Thank you everyone for all your help. I think I’m going to look at purchasing a new amp that will go better with my speaker. Thank you for all your input.
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