Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,093
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2022 17:07:31 GMT
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Post by antonio on Aug 31, 2022 17:11:33 GMT
There's a long thread on pfm on this subject. Course you've been duped, won't happen to me now since all my LP playing days are over  |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Aug 31, 2022 18:31:56 GMT
Depends on whether MoFi's marketing spiel is what persuaded you to buy their stuff. If you buy based on their reputation for producing high quality albums then maybe not. It's not unusual for manufacturers to include a certain amount of bollox in their sales guff, what's important (as with most things) is that if it sounds good then it is. And how much you're prepared to pay for that quality is a personal thing. That article wouldn't dissuade me from buying their products. Their unaffordability does that... |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Aug 31, 2022 18:37:18 GMT
There's a long thread on pfm on this subject. Course you've been duped, won't happen to me now since all my LP playing days are over MoFi have already moved into the turntables market. Maybe their next thing will be eyewateringly priced DACs, which "Use the same technology employed in the making of our all-analogue recordings" |
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Post by myles on Aug 31, 2022 19:33:50 GMT
In other news.......dinosaur steps on caveman's foot.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,093
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2022 21:02:00 GMT
In other news.......dinosaur steps on caveman's foot. Technically not? |
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Post by sq225917 on Aug 31, 2022 21:25:44 GMT
Nope I've not been duped, I never buy them.
Just records for suckers
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Sept 1, 2022 6:29:22 GMT
Nope I've not been duped, I never buy them. Just records for suckersIn some cases yes, but there are also those who will have spent thousands on their t/t and arm, even thousands on carts, the benefits of which can be ruined by modern pressings, some of which frankly take the piss. I don't see a problem with these folk chucking big money at vinyl that best exploits the quality of their kit. Although I wouldn't spend that kind of money on records, no way...  |
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Post by mikeyb on Sept 1, 2022 6:55:51 GMT
Mofi are finished, the sue sue sue mentality in the USA will ensure they spend the next few years in court and it'll bankcrupt them.
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edward
Regular
Still prospecting?
Posts: 194
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Post by edward on Sept 1, 2022 9:50:27 GMT
I'm gonna be a contrarian here. I think that doing a DSD capture from the master tape (rather than a tape to tape transfer) and from there going back to analog (for eq etc) seems a very sensible route to take. It lowers the noise floor, yields more consistent results and thus gets 'closer' to the original sound.
For sure in the past a digital capture (using low quality PCM settings) and then mastering the heck out of them (loudness wars anyone?) always produced a crappy quality version of the original. This led to the dichotomy of analog good, digital bad.
But times have moved on. For one DSD is a far superior format than PCM (although DSD can't be directly edited as I understand things) and the industry now understands it can no longer do weird stuff to audio it it wants to survive.
Of course MoFi should have mentioned that they do the DSD step when they first starting doing it and explaining why they believe it yields superior results.
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 1, 2022 15:24:47 GMT
The problem with that theory is dsd doesn't allow for remastering, it has to be converted to analogue or pcm fir remastering. So it's fine for a new dsd disc, but can't be used without further transcription to make a new record.
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edward
Regular
Still prospecting?
Posts: 194
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Post by edward on Sept 1, 2022 16:03:32 GMT
Well yes, that is why I caveated by saying that dsd files can't be edited.  Anyway MoFi don't do any digital work once they have captured the tape output to DSD. They take the dsd file captures back to the analog domain and from there do any eq. etc and then do the vinyl process. see here
Judging from the furore around the interweb on this issue I think many people have assumed that MoFi do everything between the capture and the lathe cutting in the digital domain. This is not the case. Anyway all this is moot for me - I ain't rushing out buying MoFi stuff at £100 a pop. I'm saving my pennies for the winter heating bills.  |
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Post by lurch on Sept 1, 2022 17:14:23 GMT
I personally don't give a rats foreskin how they do their mastering. I'm more than happy with the superb SQ of the 6 Mofi LPS I have (2x half speed mastered 45rpm & 4x UDs). The SQ is just extraordinary and worth every penny of what I paid.
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Post by myles on Sept 1, 2022 17:41:05 GMT
I personally don't give a rats foreskin how they do their mastering. I'm more than happy with the superb SQ of the 6 Mofi LPS I have (2x half speed mastered 45rpm & 4x UDs). The SQ is just extraordinary and worth every penny of what I paid. I've got a few older ones for which SQ is differing, but the newer ones that are under the 'experts' microscope are excellent. Electric Warrior I, Robot Love Over Gold Communique The Cars Breakfast In America All very good indeed. |
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2022 17:57:46 GMT
. For one DSD is a far superior format than PCM That's a surprising claim. Testing shows a small minority of people can tell the difference - sometimes - but the difference is only very slight. If you have heard obvious differences that will most likely be due to different mastering or even mix. DSD actually has higher distortion than PCM, although it is way below audible level on both formats. Regards the Mo-Fi -Transferring the precious analogue master onto a noisy, lossy format with audible distortion and then complaining that it's been ruined because it went through a digital stage? Just so funny,. I'd be more concerned as to what generation the master tape was since that might actually make an audible difference, every generation on from the studio master doubles noise. Mofi don't mention that of course and none of the disgruntled punters seem to have asked the question. Probably because they don't have the first idea. I mean they seriously thought MoFi were pressing tens of thousands of records from the same master tape? If people could be bothered to learn about their hobby then they wouldn't keep getting ripped off like this. But they'd rather believe Michael Fremer and Co. |
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edward
Regular
Still prospecting?
Posts: 194
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Post by edward on Sept 1, 2022 18:33:19 GMT
Martin, well I've personally not done measurements on DSD vs PCM - after all my name is not Amir. lol. Just going on the general point of the very high bandwidth that DSD can capture and a good medium for such tape capturing. I would guess that 24 bit / 96KHz PCM would be fine as well.
Very much go along with your comments on how punters have fooled themselves that going purely digital must have degraded the sound.
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 1, 2022 18:47:19 GMT
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2022 20:09:08 GMT
Martin, well I've personally not done measurements on DSD vs PCM - after all my name is not Amir. lol. Just going on the general point of the very high bandwidth that DSD can capture and a good medium for such tape capturing. I would guess that 24 bit / 96KHz PCM would be fine as well. Very much go along with your comments on how punters have fooled themselves that going purely digital must have degraded the sound. From memory a couple of blind test studies have been done at universities, and both showed up a few individuals who could tell the difference consistently. A lot of SACDs also went through a PCM stage at some point because as you say doing any sort of EQing in DSD is not easy although apperantly not impossible. But the reality is that 16/44.1 is more than enough for making a copy of an analogue tape since tape has less bandwidth and dynamic range. MoFi use DSD because they can so why not, but it's massive overkill. Tape is nasty stuff really with all sorts of problems and even the best formulations degrade with time. Personally I think that the myth of tape coms from high frequency compression, makes the transients slightly softer and so it all sounds a bit sweeter. But I can't back that up it's just speculation. I like listening to RTRs as long as they are set up right and the tape is in decent nick. Relaxing sound but they have the clarity still. |
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edward
Regular
Still prospecting?
Posts: 194
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Post by edward on Sept 1, 2022 21:15:53 GMT
Indeed.
I have a couple of RTRs (both serviced/calibrated recently) and the sound is very sweet - probably as you say due to HF compression.
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Post by stevew on Sept 2, 2022 6:41:39 GMT
I personally don't give a rats foreskin how they do their mastering. I'm more than happy with the superb SQ of the 6 Mofi LPS I have (2x half speed mastered 45rpm & 4x UDs). The SQ is just extraordinary and worth every penny of what I paid. Exactly this. A very happy ‘sucker’. |
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Post by rexton on Sept 2, 2022 7:15:34 GMT
In other news.......dinosaur steps on caveman's foot. Dinosaurs and cavemen, two different epochs. |
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Post by stevew on Sept 2, 2022 9:26:18 GMT
In other news.......dinosaur steps on caveman's foot. Dinosaurs and cavemen, two different epochs. The camera never lies.  |
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Post by myles on Sept 2, 2022 18:50:27 GMT
In other news.......dinosaur steps on caveman's foot. Dinosaurs and cavemen, two different epochs. No-one said the news was accurate. Seems to be true for prehistoric times and MoFi. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 9:52:47 GMT
Which is better, the MOFI or the Abbey Road version of Brothers in Arms?
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Post by stevew on Sept 3, 2022 14:09:05 GMT
At least the abbey road version is readily available on Amazon (£45). Whether it’s better or not … who would win in a fight?
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