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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 12:15:35 GMT
Things have been rather dull these past few months due to this virus. I am high risk, high blood pressure and chronic bronchitis, have kept me indoors with the cat and dog since the beginning of March. Took a venture out in the country to visit a friend and re-evaluate his system and to hear the PS Audio M700 class D power amps vs the Audio Research ref 210's. I am familiar with this system the last time I heard it he had the bass bins as actives. On my suggestion due to the cursed miss timing of an active bin, I have yet to hear one that works for my ears. they are now not active. the System. Audio Research Ref 3 preamp Audio Research Ref 210 monoblocks Ps Audio M700 monoblocks. Pathos endorphin CDP Bel Canto DAC3.5VB cables nothing silly expensive no power conditioning. A beautiful Technics SP 10 which is never used and which he will not part with. Now that the bass is sorted, probably the best most musical system I have heard; one where you sit down and enjoy the music and forget about the system, it is so dynamic and real. I have no other comment that will do it justice. It needs a bigger room, then don't we all want a bigger room. He built the speakers himself. Faital pro compression driver tweeter 1 inch with faital pro tatrix horn. Mid is a BMS compression driver with a take on the Klipsch tractrix horn Bass Faital Pro PR400 15 inch. Comparison between the PS Audio amps an the Audio Research. PS Audio's are very good, but after hearing the sublime mid range of the valve amps compared to the hint of grain and comparatively less transparency with the PS Audios the Audio Research gets the prize. The Ref 210's have been sold to be soon replaced with Ref 610T's. Somewhat of an over kill, cant wait to hear them. Some pictures. ![]()   |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 17, 2020 16:39:25 GMT
That's an impressive setup. Unusual to have top brand electronics with DIY speakers! Did he have known brand speakers before he built his own? Worth a bigger pic.  |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 17, 2020 20:38:08 GMT
Nice amps
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 12:57:19 GMT
That's an impressive setup. Unusual to have top brand electronics with DIY speakers! Did he have known brand speakers before he built his own? He did flirt with a few known brands like B&W 800's and ATC since I have known him, most of his speakers have been DIY. The cost to performance ratio of brand speakers does not come anywhere close to DIY. Sure you sacrifice the looks and finish, he like myself has a dedicated listening room which does away with the furniture aspect of a pair of speakers plus the dreaded WAF does not count, only the music counts. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 18, 2020 15:14:10 GMT
It would be really interesting to hear them.
Are they made from a commercial kit, or the guy's own design?
My take on DIY speakers is that they are very difficult indeed to get right. I've heard quite a few, and while the owner/builders are pleased as punch with them, tbh they sounded crap except on the limited range of music they were explicitly designed around and even then they can be 'orrible.
Ime the same goes for "cottage industry" speakers, they are often deeply flawed imo.
Speaker design is an art as well as a science, sure, but the science is really important!
Still, maybe your friend knows what he is doing. And as long as he is pleased with them that's all that matters, and you are obviously impressed as well!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 17:24:44 GMT
The only response I have is this.
I have heard and spent time with systems costing north of 50,000 pounds and I have to say this system realy out shines all I have heard.
I am not alone on my opinion every person who has heard this system considers it absolutely top notch. This includes the blokes with said 50,000 pound systems. Would those guys go that route? Well if you are an equipment junkie, box swopper tweaker hooked on audiophile tomfoolery, who put's sound effects over pure dynamic live sounding real music, then no, it does not look impressive enough and it don't cost the price of a Ferrari.
I use DIY speakers and after experience with a lot of high end speakers like B&W, Spendor, Harbeth, ATC, Sonus Fabers, Clario, Audio Physic, Zingali, Focal, Dynaudio, Wilsons, Thiels, Vandersteen, Vivid, Revel, various electro and ribbon speakers, for example amongst others; for the cost difference no contest. I guess like all things audio it is all a matter of choice.
In fact a friend who runs top of the line Levenson and Sonus Faber Amati Homage, is now going the DIY route, after hearing these speakers.
These are not single driver reverse loaded horns or some miss mash 3 way with a crossover designed in hell. And honestly blokes who listen to this system cannot believe they are horns.
These are not Avantgarde's which shout and tear your ears off.
The closest commercial competitor to the two way horn I use design wise, would be the Unison Research Max 1 which I have played with. Sorry no contest, that is an opinion also shared by all who heard the shoot out. Also the Klipsch Cornwall as a comparison, cost 6,500 pounds, the universal opinion on the Klipsch forum is that the Cornscala in all its types is a better speaker. I have heard the Cornwall IV, very good if I could afford it, but then it would only be because of the veneer wood finish, not because they sound any better; can't afford to go there.
Unison Research Max 1 5,500 pounds, Cost of my build using the best affordable drivers a seamless crossover point of 500Hz, 18mm Norwegen birch ply, CNC cut cabinets, Van den Hul internal wiring 2,300 pounds. Guess you have yet to hear a propper Diy speaker designed and built by somebody who knows their oats.
One last question why in the world of audiophiles is different considered better? Surely it is how you connect with the music on an emotional level is what a good system should do, with the ability to play well with whatever you throw at it good or bad, at any volume, especially at low volumes with out loosing dynamics, detail, transparency, musicality, separation and punch. Also a speaker you can listen to for hours and the only thing you feel is that it is supper time, but you think you will give supper a miss. I honestly can't say that for a hell of a lot of commercial speakers.
If your system constantly demands from you some tweak, some bling, gets you searching for the holy grail of audio, leading you down a rabbit hole, and chasing your tail. Then that is your preference.
If this alternate choice disqualifies me from being an audiophile, then I wear that badge with pride.
Would love to hear your MBL's, guess distance and two continents apart makes that impossible.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 19, 2020 18:29:55 GMT
Sounds like you and your DIY speaker friend have done it right.
Most don't, you might agree.
So, are yours an established/published/commercial design?
A link would be interesting. Not that I'm techie enough to understand it.
I agree with your comments on single driver horn loaded speakers, generally they just sound broken to me.
I had Avantgarde Unos for 5 years, they didn't screech at all. The ones further up the range with compression drivers could, though. Ouch.
Yes, the MBLs are worth a listen.
I'd love to hear your speakers.
But as you say, not likely to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 18:45:44 GMT
I certainly agree with you about most DIY efforts I have heard. A link to the speakers I use. I had built for me the Cornscala D two way. critesspeakers.comClick on Crites speaker styles then CS Style D. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 19, 2020 19:13:22 GMT
That horn driver looks astonishing!
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