Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 17:05:55 GMT
Just asking out of curiosity. Not chasing after anything specifically.
Have some of you chaps had integrated amps that stay composed at very high volume levels? Those type of amps that don't clip easily.
Care to name some amps?
S.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 17:17:30 GMT
Luxman L-509X
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,062
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 15, 2019 17:50:33 GMT
I guess it also depends on what sensitivity and load the speakers are. The Mcintosh amp I had was powerful and super relaxed.
I recall the Audiolab 8000a keeping its composure at volume. Not the most revealing amp though.
I’d tend to go for a separate power amp if I needed loud tbh.
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 16, 2019 12:08:44 GMT
XTZ A100D3
Although you have to remember that perceived loudness is a function of distortion. High SPL with no distortion doesn't sound 'loud'.
I behave myself now but quite often in the past I'd turn the system off for the night and only then I'd notice that my ears were ringing.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 16, 2019 12:14:37 GMT
There was an Emotiva amp which may have been related to the XTZ I think. Some powerful integrateds weren't very good sonically I recall. NAD did one or two which were ok. not sure the Luxman Roy refers to is powerful as such? Sansui did a fantastic one decades ago (9900?) but they're rare and expensive used. Oh hell Shane, if you only have one source, just buy an effin' Crown or yamaha pro power amp and feed your CD player straight into it - gain controls become your volume levels and you'll have hundreds of Watts per channel to play with and a spec better than most domestic crap we audio bods rave over 
P.S. if you wanted a bit of Luxury-Fi to go witht e power in one box, ATC used to make a powerful integrated which was liked and Macintosh have been making this kind of thing for a very long time I gather...
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 16, 2019 12:18:44 GMT
Oh hell Shane, if you only have one source, just buy an effin' Crown or yamaha pro power amp and feed your CD player straight into it - gain controls become your volume levels and you'll have hundreds of Watts per channel to play with and a spec better than most domestic crap we audio bods rave over
...
The problem with that, and I've tried it both with the Sony TAN55ES and the Behringer A500, is that it sounds crap. You have to get the impedance matching right and that still seems to be a black art. |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 16, 2019 12:28:57 GMT
My geriatric Crown D-60s sound amazing with a CD playing straight into them (25k nominal input impedance) and even not level-matching, I found the Croft 4PP preamp softened things too much even after Glenn authorised some mods (the current Micro 25 is far better here) and the AVI preamp with 1m interconnects sounded 'pushy' for want of a better term. A passive with either 47k or 10k log pots caused hum increasing with volume. The IC-150 with more modern op-amps fitted didn't change the sound at all that I could hear, so I use them instead despite increasing old age crabbiness on the sockets and volume pots now...
Yamaha have designed some good cheap pro power amps with an endearing reputation I believe and I bet one of them for a few hundred quid could happily be used with a domestic CD player (not a Rega Planet or Apollo as these need 50k according to Rega)
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,062
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 16, 2019 13:10:21 GMT
Is that using the 1520s variable output, Dave? I remember it being pretty good. The 1520 was the first player I was able to live with. A lovely thing to own too.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 16, 2019 14:37:21 GMT
The crowns all have gain controls on the front and in normal use, I set them half way or so and push the driving preamp harder to minimise any noise effects in the cables and preamp as instructed by the manufacturer at the time (the manuals are available to download and they're a real education even today imo.
I used the superior (to me) Micro Seiki fixed output into the different pre's and then the D-60's. The 1520 (or the Micro, I couldn't really decide which) seemed to invert the phase, so in the main system, the 1520 on its own never 'projected' the sound as the Micro Seiki does. I use it's remaining life as a transport, but in fairness, the analogue side was very well designed internally and I agree it does sound very good by today's standards and just fine in the workroom system - and it's very heavy and solidly made. My main system is limited by the positioning of the speakers in the room, and like the last listening room I had, has bass issues which dominate too much (maybe I'll learn next time? - by then it'll be a smaller house and a rather smaller stereo I reckon, much as I'd love a pair of bigger ATC's again). As a transport, the later 1015 I was given is just as good sonically, if not as slick to use or as substantially built. The 1520 variable out does seem fine although I don't use it. I use the fixed outs into each preamp I build, taking the outs from these into the workroom system proper where I can test using speakers or headphones. I'm starting to wonder if the sonically warmer tinged 'better' players from the late 80's to mid 90's weren't actually more than a little coloured sounding, including my Micro Seiki, the version after mine (CD-M100) having a perceptable extra weight and 'power' I'm not sure should be there in comparison with the master source. I'll never know now and since objectively excellent dacs can be got for a couple of hundred quid or less, that's where my energy will lie when the time comes. |
|
|
|
Post by pauld on Aug 16, 2019 15:13:16 GMT
I am sure you know I am going to say this, but it would be worth trying out Belles amplifiers, particularly the Aria that I use if you want to hear something special for not a lot of money. They go very loud without being any fatigue whatsoever.
The challenge would be finding a second hand one.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,062
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 16, 2019 15:32:25 GMT
I am sure you know I am going to say this, but it would be worth trying out Belles amplifiers, particularly the Aria that I use if you want to hear something special for not a lot of money. They go very loud without being any fatigue whatsoever. The challenge would be finding a second hand one. I’ve usually found your taste to be superb (I mean it often matches mine lol), so I will indeed be looking out for something from Belles. I had heard a few years ago that the designs were a bit special, so I’m not at all surprised to hear your views. Of course, I will be taking up the challenge if buying second hand cos I’m a cheapskate. Like Sonneteer, you just don’t see very many being sold on, which say it all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 15:50:30 GMT
not sure the Luxman Roy refers to is powerful as such? It's rated at 120 watts into 8 ohms. All I can say is it can drive my Tannoys to insane levels whilst still allowing you to be able to pick out every instrument, I've had many 'loud' amplifiers but never one that can do this effectively. www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=26 |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 16, 2019 16:30:12 GMT
Yeah, but you have Tannoys which can sound 'loud' at any volume  I do know how good the current Luxmans are as pal (HiFi) Dave W has them to play with - and yep, I've played and played and played......... The matching CD player ain't no slouch either I remember. Powerful to me at present is 200WPC+ but then I'm still an animal where audio is concerned Heck, and back in my day a DC300A was an animal of an amp - it's a bloody pussy cat nowadays and sounds it...Quite velvety like the Luxman and Quad 606 family and not at all sterile or hard toned when the 'overload' lights came on going flat out into Harbeth 40.1's one memorable afternoon - it didn't sound 'loud' at all until we tried to speak and then we almost had to shout - that's my kind of amp... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 17:27:18 GMT
I am sure you know I am going to say this, but it would be worth trying out Belles amplifiers, particularly the Aria that I use if you want to hear something special for not a lot of money. They go very loud without being any fatigue whatsoever. The challenge would be finding a second hand one. If I ever spot one going locally (unlikely) I'll give it a go! S. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 17:27:43 GMT
Well ok, the original question was 'Have some of you chaps had integrated amps that stay composed at very high volume levels?' & in my system the Luxman does, not really concerned with wattage etc. I've used 2 Crown amps (not domestic crap..) bridged producing (supposedly) 1000 watts per channel into 8 ohms & they were nowhere near as 'composed'.  |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 16, 2019 17:33:39 GMT
The speakers are a factor and a big one. Even a 10 watt amp will sound composed into a single driver horn loaded speaker with 103dB efficiency, you'll give out before the amp does. I know because I've tried it.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 17:36:35 GMT
If anyone is wondering. My speakers are Dali Spektor 1. Lovely little things. But quite low at around 83dB.
S.
|
|
|
|
Post by pauld on Aug 16, 2019 17:58:03 GMT
I am sure you know I am going to say this, but it would be worth trying out Belles amplifiers, particularly the Aria that I use if you want to hear something special for not a lot of money. They go very loud without being any fatigue whatsoever. The challenge would be finding a second hand one. I’ve usually found your taste to be superb (I mean it often matches mine lol), so I will indeed be looking out for something from Belles. I had heard a few years ago that the designs were a bit special, so I’m not at all surprised to hear your views. Of course, I will be taking up the challenge if buying second hand cos I’m a cheapskate. Like Sonneteer, you just don’t see very many being sold on, which say it all. That's a nice compliment and I would agree. I have heard Sonneteer and really enjoyed them but do think that Belles have a slight edge. Dave Belles has been designing amplifiers for different markets since the 1970's and the latest amps are really quite impressive, even by his usual standards. They are exceptionally open and detailed but without ever sounding at all harsh. They work out cheaper than some because they don't have the market presence that some of the larger brands have, oh and they are an American brand. |
|
I do know how good the current Luxmans are as pal (HiFi) Dave W has them to play with - and yep, I've played and played and played......... The matching CD player ain't no slouch either I remember.