Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 8, 2021 15:59:41 GMT
Well who would have thought that?? To my understanding an AES/EBU cables’ strength is when there’s long distances to be covered but it should certainly not be worse than coax. You never know before you’ve tried a cable how it will perform do you? Frustrating says I! Yup, I have managed to make a very decent sounding AES cable. It shouldn't make a bit of difference but it absolutely does here.
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Post by zleepy on Oct 8, 2021 16:02:50 GMT
Well what’s that cable?
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Post by zleepy on Oct 8, 2021 16:05:08 GMT
Nevermind, posted before I read your previous post!
How strange isn’t it. That DH labs cable is supposed to be the 🐝:s knees of AES cables.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 8, 2021 16:22:01 GMT
Nevermind, posted before I read your previous post! How strange isn’t it. That DH labs cable is supposed to be the 🐝:s knees of AES cables. Well is isn't. I beat it easily with three wires out of a HDMI cable. Muddy, murky and low resolution. I will stick some decent plugs on it and whack it on eBay.
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Post by firebottle on Oct 8, 2021 16:47:18 GMT
It really was quite a shocker. For all the cable disbelievers out there, particularly those that think digital cables make no difference, it was as different as a souffle and a cheesecake.
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Post by misterc on Oct 8, 2021 18:27:21 GMT
DH labs, best yorkshire accent on 'Like wading through pig muck lad'
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 9, 2021 14:00:47 GMT
Oli, yes, caps are on the psu boards, 88,000uf per channel now. It feels like they have a tiny bit more headroom when wicked up.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 9, 2021 14:30:20 GMT
Oli, yes, caps are on the psu boards, 88,000uf per channel now. It feels like they have a tiny bit more headroom when wicked up. Yes, I recall you saying. I looked at upping the capacitance on mine, but it is REALLY cramped in there already. I can see it being transplanted into another case to be honest.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 9, 2021 18:33:25 GMT
Been a busy bee over the last couple of days.
First of all I made a combination of 7 AES cables and finally gave up.
Being somewhat let down by the DHLabs cable and Monosaudio plugs, I put a piece of Chinese OCC between the Monosaudio XLR plugs and instantly heard a massive improvement....however, I'm still not entirely convinced.
There something missing from the Low frequency end. Like it's lost some of the detail. It's far better than the DHlab stuff, but still not quite where I think it could be.
I left it playing from around 16:00 yesterday and I will give it 100 hours before I go back to it, but a thought struck me....I wonder if it's the plugs?
Being a magpie for anything copper with gold plating, I remembered having some Monosaudio RCA sockets in the draw.
I nipped down to the garage with the Avalon in tow and set about removing my CMC pure copper plugs and installed the Monosaudio.
Well I'll be!
There was that nondescript, almost monotone bass again. Almost identical type of effect on the Phonostage that I have experienced with the XLR plugs and AES cable.
I played a few tracks and gave up. Back down to the garage and refitted the CMCs.
High resolution of the LF returned with a far better balance across the sound.
I am a little dissapointed as I have vouched for the Monosaudio stuff to a few people and my Banana plugs are absolutely perfect, but something is going on here.
I have ordered some MPS XLR plugs to do a direct plug comparison. They are Copper alloy, so not quite what I'd go for usually, but I want to see what happens.
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Post by brucew268 on Oct 10, 2021 8:52:46 GMT
Being somewhat let down by the DHLabs cable and Monosaudio plugs, I put a piece of Chinese OCC between the Monosaudio XLR plugs and instantly heard a massive improvement....however, I'm still not entirely convinced. There something missing from the Low frequency end. Like it's lost some of the detail. It's far better than the DHlab stuff, but still not quite where I think it could be. I left it playing from around 16:00 yesterday and I will give it 100 hours before I go back to it, but a thought struck me....I wonder if it's the plugs? Being a magpie for anything copper with gold plating, I remembered having some Monosaudio RCA sockets in the draw. I nipped down to the garage with the Avalon in tow and set about removing my CMC pure copper plugs and installed the Monosaudio. Well I'll be! There was that nondescript, almost monotone bass again. Almost identical type of effect on the Phonostage that I have experienced with the XLR plugs and AES cable. I played a few tracks and gave up. Back down to the garage and refitted the CMCs. High resolution of the LF returned with a far better balance across the sound. I am a little dissapointed as I have vouched for the Monosaudio stuff to a few people and my Banana plugs are absolutely perfect, but something is going on here. I have ordered some MPS XLR plugs to do a direct plug comparison. They are Copper alloy, so not quite what I'd go for usually, but I want to see what happens. Right, so RCA & XLR Viborg's seem to have an issue, but banana plugs don't? I wonder if this also calls into question the Viborg IEC plugs?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 8:55:41 GMT
Being somewhat let down by the DHLabs cable and Monosaudio plugs, I put a piece of Chinese OCC between the Monosaudio XLR plugs and instantly heard a massive improvement....however, I'm still not entirely convinced. There something missing from the Low frequency end. Like it's lost some of the detail. It's far better than the DHlab stuff, but still not quite where I think it could be. I left it playing from around 16:00 yesterday and I will give it 100 hours before I go back to it, but a thought struck me....I wonder if it's the plugs? Being a magpie for anything copper with gold plating, I remembered having some Monosaudio RCA sockets in the draw. I nipped down to the garage with the Avalon in tow and set about removing my CMC pure copper plugs and installed the Monosaudio. Well I'll be! There was that nondescript, almost monotone bass again. Almost identical type of effect on the Phonostage that I have experienced with the XLR plugs and AES cable. I played a few tracks and gave up. Back down to the garage and refitted the CMCs. High resolution of the LF returned with a far better balance across the sound. I am a little dissapointed as I have vouched for the Monosaudio stuff to a few people and my Banana plugs are absolutely perfect, but something is going on here. I have ordered some MPS XLR plugs to do a direct plug comparison. They are Copper alloy, so not quite what I'd go for usually, but I want to see what happens. Right, so RCA & XLR Viborg's seem to have an issue, but banana plugs don't? I wonder if this also calls into question the Viborg IEC plugs? I don't know. I have one of theirs and used it ages ago but never had any issue with it. I'm not happy though, as there's about £140 worth of bits here that I won't use now.
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Post by brucew268 on Oct 10, 2021 9:03:50 GMT
Right, so RCA & XLR Viborg's seem to have an issue, but banana plugs don't? I wonder if this also calls into question the Viborg IEC plugs? I don't know. I have one of theirs and used it ages ago but never had any issue with it. I'm not happy though, as there's about £140 worth of bits here that I won't use now. Yeah, I feel that.
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Post by macca on Oct 10, 2021 9:07:34 GMT
shame you dismantled the cable, it would have been interesting to get to the bottom of what's going on.
First stage should really have been to blind test vs another cable and confirm that the perceived difference was real. Yes I know you are saying 'night and day' but the brain can create night and day differences where none exist. I appreciate that's hard to believe but it's not as hard to believe as digital cables sounding different.
If there's still a difference blind then proceed to the next step which would be to measure every aspect of both the good and bad cable and see where the differences lie. Then a theory can be established and tested further.
The trouble with sighted comparisons is we will all perceive a difference whether it is real or not. It's how perception works. Then this is held up as some sort of proof that physics is wrong (at least when it comes to hi-fi) and that therefore anything, no matter how bizarre, is possible.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 15:36:14 GMT
Had the pleasure of Angus's company today, and it it was my birthday he brought with him a little gift for me. A PMAT1010 MK8b tomearm! Angus and I had been talking about the next steps for the MK6 and the addition of some special bearings for the vertical AND the horizon plane. Another of the ideas we had discussed was the removal of the brass connections between removable headshell and arm collet. Looking at the possibility of replacing the brass pins with copper, Angus quickly realised that it was going to be incredibly tough to do. Discussion continued, and I asked if we could just remove the connection all together. Turn out Angus thought that was going to be a lot easier and probably would sound better. Another "must have" was the addition of OCC copper. We've been avid fans of the KAB superflex stuff, but every move from OFC to OCC has yielded a positive result. Turns out Neotech make a cable that has inner cores very close to ideal, so lengths of the cable were ordered. Today, the result of those ideas were presented to me and I can tell you, I was BOSTING to get it into action. I'll post my thoughts on the performance later, but as an indicator.....my head has still not recovered. Photo shows the silicone in the arm tube. A bit rough around the finish, but this is only a prototype....the final version will be far more polished.
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Post by stevew on Oct 10, 2021 15:40:57 GMT
STOP!! I’m trying to reach a zen state of blissful content. Just STOP
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Post by karma67 on Oct 10, 2021 15:49:02 GMT
is the whole arm tube filled with silicone or is it just to fill the hole at the front?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 15:49:47 GMT
STOP!! I’m trying to reach a zen state of blissful content. Just STOP You can achieve that by taking no notice if what I say 🤣
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 15:50:04 GMT
is the whole arm tube filled with silicone or is it just to fill the hole at the front? Not entirely sure. I'll ask
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Post by rexton on Oct 10, 2021 16:01:25 GMT
I removed the brass cartridge tags from my SME V years ago. I've been doing this with all my tonearms for some time.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 16:09:03 GMT
I removed the brass cartridge tags from my SME V years ago. I've been doing this with all my tonearms for some time. We've removed all the brass. That includes the 5 pin din in the arm base!
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Post by karma67 on Oct 10, 2021 16:13:48 GMT
is the whole arm tube filled with silicone or is it just to fill the hole at the front? Not entirely sure. I'll ask cool,i would think a nicely turned delrin disc with 4 holes would look much better.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 16:15:34 GMT
Not entirely sure. I'll ask cool,i would think a nicely turned delrin disc with 4 holes would look much better. Yes, I agree, but remember this was an experiment to see if we were on the right track. The finesse will come at a later date.
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Post by karma67 on Oct 10, 2021 16:17:38 GMT
cool,i would think a nicely turned delrin disc with 4 holes would look much better. Yes, I agree, but remember this was an experiment to see if we were on the right track. The finesse will come at a later date. we all best form an orderly queue then
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
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Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 16:18:52 GMT
Yes, I agree, but remember this was an experiment to see if we were on the right track. The finesse will come at a later date. we all best form an orderly queue then Yes, you really should because what happened here today was mind bending.
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Post by gninnam on Oct 10, 2021 16:25:29 GMT
Interesting - how much does Angus charge for these arms?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 16:31:19 GMT
Interesting - how much does Angus charge for these arms? Last time I asked they were £1500 but just to put that into perspective, I know folk have sold SME V's to buy a PMAT MK7 after comparing them. This MK8 is better in every respect, and it's not small changes....it turned the Ortofon Vienna into a Windfeld, and we had both available to compare.
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Post by rexton on Oct 10, 2021 16:51:59 GMT
I removed the brass cartridge tags from my SME V years ago. I've been doing this with all my tonearms for some time. We've removed all the brass. That includes the 5 pin din in the arm base! Yep been there and done that as well!
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 10, 2021 16:53:00 GMT
We've removed all the brass. That includes the 5 pin din in the arm base! Yep been there and done that as well! Good man. What wiring is in it?
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Post by gninnam on Oct 10, 2021 16:53:44 GMT
Interesting - how much does Angus charge for these arms? Last time I asked they were £1500 but just to put that into perspective, I know folk have sold SME V's to buy a PMAT MK7 after comparing them. This MK8 is better in every respect, and it's not small changes....it turned the Ortofon Vienna into a Windfeld, and we had both available to compare. £1500 sounds reasonable to me - especially with all the mods carried out (plus the R&D).Thanks
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Post by rexton on Oct 10, 2021 17:20:43 GMT
Yep been there and done that as well! Good man. What wiring is in it? Kondo Silver.
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