optical
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Post by optical on Jun 18, 2022 15:29:10 GMT
I have to do something similar on top of my streamer as the lid vibrates very slightly due to the traffo, only audible from a couple of inches but with a nice granite coaster it is eliminated.
I'm quite a believer in weighting down 'lightweight' components as otherwise my subs and speakers will probably shake them about.
This DAC does not fall into that category however.....
A small amount of introduced downward force on top of a 'flimsy' thin top cover makes engineering sense to me.
Eddy currents anyone.....
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 18, 2022 15:38:39 GMT
I have to do something similar on top of my streamer as the lid vibrates very slightly due to the traffo, only audible from a couple of inches but with a nice granite coaster it is eliminated. I'm quite a believer in weighting down 'lightweight' components as otherwise my subs and speakers will probably shake them about. This DAC does not fall into that category however..... A small amount of introduced downward force on top of a 'flimsy' thin top cover makes engineering sense to me. Eddy currents anyone..... 🤣🤣
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Post by firebottle on Jun 18, 2022 15:51:04 GMT
Who's Eddy?
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Post by wackjob on Jun 18, 2022 17:48:29 GMT
Eddy Large
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Post by wackjob on Jun 18, 2022 18:58:40 GMT
Eddy the Eagle ?
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Post by wackjob on Jun 18, 2022 19:03:01 GMT
Eddy does Dallas ?
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Post by robbiegong on Jun 19, 2022 21:52:01 GMT
Most expensive cable I have ever bought.... It's not over yet either. Need to hear more from you about this one Olster. It's one area I'll address at some point ie: look to go from longstanding Sliver Litz to a top quality copper based tonearm phono cable, hence...
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 20, 2022 4:56:50 GMT
I'm not sure who he is, but I think he's in the space/time continuum.
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edward
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Still prospecting?
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Post by edward on Jun 20, 2022 11:29:50 GMT
As a boy that was me. I often played around with spacetime in my dressing gown. I preceded by a couple of decades my friend Zaphod, helped him getting the recipe of his gargle blaster tuned to perfection. Google is still trying to perfect what I did with the fish. So there!
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Post by electronumpty on Jun 20, 2022 11:30:15 GMT
Eddy Bull, the famous tv chef.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 20, 2022 17:13:35 GMT
Most expensive cable I have ever bought.... It's not over yet either. Need to hear more from you about this one Olster. It's one area I'll address at some point ie: look to go from longstanding Sliver Litz to a top quality copper based tonearm phono cable, hence... Hi Rob, I am not entirely sure what I can say about this arm cable that will help you decide what to do. As you know, I have never really been a big fan of Silver cables and apart from one (of a plethora) I have never had one here for any significant period of time. The other dedicated arm cables I have used have mainly been built by me, made of copper, and have been far superior to anything shop bought. In my opinion anyway. The reason I have chosen to buy this particular cable was down to the type of copper and the construction method of the cables conductors. I have been using SL-5000/XR-3000 cables from SAEC for some time now. They have impressed me greatly, in fact, so much so that I now have an entire loom through the system. The entire SAEC range seems to specialise in transparency, resolution and creating images with a vivid colour spectrum. They are very neutrally voiced, very even and poised quite nicely in tonal accuracy. Given enough hours the lucidity and plausibility of the music is simply unmatched, apart from the Acoustic Revive Cable which is very similar in a lot of ways. I could have just as easily filled my system with the AR FM1.0 LINE cable. One must note, that in modern day HiFi, to find a cable like this for the money is rare. The build quality and finish is unquestionable, until you get to the supplied RCA plugs. They are Phosphor Bronze, so a step-up from Brass, but not at the level I desire. With some surgery and better RCA plugs, these cables are quite simply brilliant. Which is why I bought the SCX-5000. For a long time I have been using the DIN to RCA splitter box. CMC sockets, Viborg pure copper DIN and PC-Triple C wiring. The performance of that box and the SL1980/SL5000/XR-3000 has been good enough to make all other arm cables a non-consideration. During a recent experiment I built a PC-Triple C arm cable. It was absolutely wonderful....except I couldn't rid it of noise. Try as I might, it wouldn't behave. So I bought the SAEC cable. The SCX-5000 is quite bulky at 11mm diameter. It's radius is quite big under the TT so i had to cut a channel out of my isolation plinth to get it to sit comfortably. Once i had done that, i sat back to listen. I sat there open-mouthed for about 30 minutes. Listening to Eva Cassidy - At Blues Alley..... The purity of her vocal was a new experience. The band sounding dynamic, rhythmically synchronised and ALIVE. There is acres of resolution and transparency, but it does not detract from engagement and connection. This is exactly what i have been getting from SAEC cables for months on end now. This is the most expensive cable i have ever bought. £338 + £63 VAT + £50 on two WBT plugs i haven't fitted yet, but this thing feels like a bargain. It has radically improved the fluidity, lucidity, organic texture, resolution, transparency....literally everything. It feels like a massive upgrade. However, as with all things HiFi, you may not agree in your system considering the time you have spent with Silver cable in that position. Having bought one, i have recommended it to a few people on the hunt for an arm cable.
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Post by rexton on Jun 20, 2022 18:21:53 GMT
Have you got a link for the tonearm cable?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 20, 2022 18:29:11 GMT
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Post by rexton on Jun 20, 2022 19:08:52 GMT
Thanks Oli, is this the top of the range?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 20, 2022 20:24:35 GMT
Thanks Oli, is this the top of the range? As far as I am concerned, yes. I think there is a 6000 cable, but it hasn't got the same construction. It's only solid core, but I'm not sure if they don't in a tonearm cable. I have deliberately chosen this cable for the construction.
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Post by robbiegong on Jun 20, 2022 21:30:43 GMT
Need to hear more from you about this one Olster. It's one area I'll address at some point ie: look to go from longstanding Sliver Litz to a top quality copper based tonearm phono cable, hence... Hi Rob, I am not entirely sure what I can say about this arm cable that will help you decide what to do. As you know, I have never really been a big fan of Silver cables and apart from one (of a plethora) I have never had one here for any significant period of time. The other dedicated arm cables I have used have mainly been built by me, made of copper, and have been far superior to anything shop bought. In my opinion anyway. The reason I have chosen to buy this particular cable was down to the type of copper and the construction method of the cables conductors. I have been using SL-5000/XR-3000 cables from SAEC for some time now. They have impressed me greatly, in fact, so much so that I now have an entire loom through the system. The entire SAEC range seems to specialise in transparency, resolution and creating images with a vivid colour spectrum. They are very neutrally voiced, very even and poised quite nicely in tonal accuracy. Given enough hours the lucidity and plausibility of the music is simply unmatched, apart from the Acoustic Revive Cable which is very similar in a lot of ways. I could have just as easily filled my system with the AR FM1.0 LINE cable. One must note, that in modern day HiFi, to find a cable like this for the money is rare. The build quality and finish is unquestionable, until you get to the supplied RCA plugs. They are Phosphor Bronze, so a step-up from Brass, but not at the level I desire. With some surgery and better RCA plugs, these cables are quite simply brilliant. Which is why I bought the SCX-5000. For a long time I have been using the DIN to RCA splitter box. CMC sockets, Viborg pure copper DIN and PC-Triple C wiring. The performance of that box and the SL1980/SL5000/XR-3000 has been good enough to make all other arm cables a non-consideration. During a recent experiment I built a PC-Triple C arm cable. It was absolutely wonderful....except I couldn't rid it of noise. Try as I might, it wouldn't behave. So I bought the SAEC cable. The SCX-5000 is quite bulky at 11mm diameter. It's radius is quite big under the TT so i had to cut a channel out of my isolation plinth to get it to sit comfortably. Once i had done that, i sat back to listen. I sat there open-mouthed for about 30 minutes. Listening to Eva Cassidy - At Blues Alley..... The purity of her vocal was a new experience. The band sounding dynamic, rhythmically synchronised and ALIVE. There is acres of resolution and transparency, but it does not detract from engagement and connection. This is exactly what i have been getting from SAEC cables for months on end now. This is the most expensive cable i have ever bought. £338 + £63 VAT + £50 on two WBT plugs i haven't fitted yet, but this thing feels like a bargain. It has radically improved the fluidity, lucidity, organic texture, resolution, transparency....literally everything. It feels like a massive upgrade. However, as with all things HiFi, you may not agree in your system considering the time you have spent with Silver cable in that position. Having bought one, i have recommended it to a few people on the hunt for an arm cable. Thanks for the detailed response and info Olster, very insightful and appreciated. As you know I like and have enjoyed the Yannis Tome silver Litz tonearm cable I have for a long time now, BUT, I do get an accentuation of certain upper mid/high frequencies on some tracks, which is hash/distortion so I have to try a good copper cable at some point to see what occurs and if this unwanted, occasional, fatiguing hash/distortion is eliminated.
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Bigman80
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Posts: 15,977
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 20, 2022 22:38:09 GMT
Hi Rob, I am not entirely sure what I can say about this arm cable that will help you decide what to do. As you know, I have never really been a big fan of Silver cables and apart from one (of a plethora) I have never had one here for any significant period of time. The other dedicated arm cables I have used have mainly been built by me, made of copper, and have been far superior to anything shop bought. In my opinion anyway. The reason I have chosen to buy this particular cable was down to the type of copper and the construction method of the cables conductors. I have been using SL-5000/XR-3000 cables from SAEC for some time now. They have impressed me greatly, in fact, so much so that I now have an entire loom through the system. The entire SAEC range seems to specialise in transparency, resolution and creating images with a vivid colour spectrum. They are very neutrally voiced, very even and poised quite nicely in tonal accuracy. Given enough hours the lucidity and plausibility of the music is simply unmatched, apart from the Acoustic Revive Cable which is very similar in a lot of ways. I could have just as easily filled my system with the AR FM1.0 LINE cable. One must note, that in modern day HiFi, to find a cable like this for the money is rare. The build quality and finish is unquestionable, until you get to the supplied RCA plugs. They are Phosphor Bronze, so a step-up from Brass, but not at the level I desire. With some surgery and better RCA plugs, these cables are quite simply brilliant. Which is why I bought the SCX-5000. For a long time I have been using the DIN to RCA splitter box. CMC sockets, Viborg pure copper DIN and PC-Triple C wiring. The performance of that box and the SL1980/SL5000/XR-3000 has been good enough to make all other arm cables a non-consideration. During a recent experiment I built a PC-Triple C arm cable. It was absolutely wonderful....except I couldn't rid it of noise. Try as I might, it wouldn't behave. So I bought the SAEC cable. The SCX-5000 is quite bulky at 11mm diameter. It's radius is quite big under the TT so i had to cut a channel out of my isolation plinth to get it to sit comfortably. Once i had done that, i sat back to listen. I sat there open-mouthed for about 30 minutes. Listening to Eva Cassidy - At Blues Alley..... The purity of her vocal was a new experience. The band sounding dynamic, rhythmically synchronised and ALIVE. There is acres of resolution and transparency, but it does not detract from engagement and connection. This is exactly what i have been getting from SAEC cables for months on end now. This is the most expensive cable i have ever bought. £338 + £63 VAT + £50 on two WBT plugs i haven't fitted yet, but this thing feels like a bargain. It has radically improved the fluidity, lucidity, organic texture, resolution, transparency....literally everything. It feels like a massive upgrade. However, as with all things HiFi, you may not agree in your system considering the time you have spent with Silver cable in that position. Having bought one, i have recommended it to a few people on the hunt for an arm cable. Thanks for the detailed response and info Olster, very insightful and appreciated. As you know I like and have enjoyed the Yannis Tome silver Litz tonearm cable I have for a long time now, BUT, I do get an accentuation of certain upper mid/high frequencies on some tracks, which is hash/distortion so I have to try a good copper cable at some point to see what occurs and if this unwanted, occasional, fatiguing hash/distortion is eliminated. You know my feelings on Silver, Rob. Only one pair of silver cables have crossed my path and have lasted more than a few days in the system. Saying that, they haven't lasted here as they were moved on pretty sharpish, but there were very decent cables. I can't deny that. Trouble is, people get accustomed to that HF emphasis and particular sound, and then struggle to get away from it. That's my concern with your situation. Youve have that cable for some time, and that may mean you too are indoctrinated with silver sound signature. Only way to know is to try.
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Post by rexton on Jun 21, 2022 7:21:06 GMT
The real problem is when you start mixing cu and ag in your system. I have a near full loom of silver but use seac cu cable. I used to take the piss out of people selecting components for “tone” . Now I’m not so sure. My system has never sounded as good but then again I have three systems each tuned to a specific music genre.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 15,977
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 21, 2022 8:55:03 GMT
The real problem is when you start mixing cu and ag in your system. I have a near full loom of silver but use seac cu cable. I used to take the piss out of people selecting components for “tone” . Now I’m not so sure. My system has never sounded as good but then again I have three systems each tuned to a specific music genre. For me, cables that provide a particular "flavour" have been the ones that haven't lasted. Much like my approach with the equipment, the ethos is that it should not be playing a part ..... Or as close to that as possible. Everytime I try a silver cable, it's drawn attention to itself. The Xangsane cable did this the least of any silver I have tried....but it still does it. It could also be that because I have used copper for so long, I am indoctrinated with its characteristics and can't adjust to anything else. However, I think the reported merits of silver Vs copper are bullshit, especially when you get to the really good copper. There isnt anything good copper can't do that silver can.
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Post by brian2957 on Jun 21, 2022 9:25:33 GMT
Part of the problem is that copper is relatively cheap so the manufacturer can use as much as they want. Silver is much more expensive, but you have to use plenty of it to get a good weighty sound. In lots of silver cables this doesn't happen, they never seem to use enough silver and many cables of that ilk seem to lack in heft/weigh/bass. I experimented many times with pure silver to make cables but ultimately always went back to copper using copper.
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Post by robbiegong on Jun 21, 2022 9:42:21 GMT
Thanks for the detailed response and info Olster, very insightful and appreciated. As you know I like and have enjoyed the Yannis Tome silver Litz tonearm cable I have for a long time now, BUT, I do get an accentuation of certain upper mid/high frequencies on some tracks, which is hash/distortion so I have to try a good copper cable at some point to see what occurs and if this unwanted, occasional, fatiguing hash/distortion is eliminated. You know my feelings on Silver, Rob. Only one pair of silver cables have crossed my path and have lasted more than a few days in the system. Saying that, they haven't lasted here as they were moved on pretty sharpish, but there were very decent cables. I can't deny that. Trouble is, people get accustomed to that HF emphasis and particular sound, and then struggle to get away from it. That's my concern with your situation. Youve have that cable for some time, and that may mean you too are indoctrinated with silver sound signature. Only way to know is to try. I woudnt use the word indoctrinated lol, but I get your gist. For me this is about a rightness of sound to my ears, and whilst what I' have does sound good a lot of the time, I'm aware of something, as I've mentioned, that I'm looking to address, so trying a good quality, copper only tonearm cable will be done, and with that area being such a critical point, it's a no brainer for me to try other cable there, and see what occurs.
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Post by misterc on Jun 21, 2022 9:57:13 GMT
Silver (pure) can provie one of the sweetest and most open sounds no question BUT is has to be PURE not silver plated. Although I find in excentuates the bass but quite a large margin, Kondo and audio note cables are prome examples of this.
Silver plated multi stranded copper imho are utterly PHISH and best used a low grade toe rope regardless of cost.
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Post by antonio on Jun 21, 2022 15:42:06 GMT
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Post by rexton on Jun 21, 2022 16:00:57 GMT
For me, cables that provide a particular "flavour" have been the ones that haven't lasted. Much like my approach with the equipment, the ethos is that it should not be playing a part ..... Or as close to that as possible. Everytime I try a silver cable, it's drawn attention to itself. The Xangsane cable did this the least of any silver I have tried....but it still does it. It could also be that because I have used copper for so long, I am indoctrinated with its characteristics and can't adjust to anything else. However, I think the reported merits of silver Vs copper are bullshit, especially when you get to the really good copper. There isnt anything good copper can't do that silver can. Oli, all cables provide a "flavour", otherwise you wouldn't be able to use descriptive lanuage to describe what your hearing when you use a new cable, such as your new tonearm cable.
I presume your going to review the cable (which I would like to hear your thoughts) and you;ll describe how / what impact it's had on your system. The SEAC speaker cable provides a flavour, one, for me which was more pleasing than the last cable I heard and overall produced a "tone", or "presentation" which I liked. I agree with the idea of indoctrination, I'm a little more sceptical about your comments regarding "silver v copper", to me silver has always trumped copper, remember when I disliked the gold plated copper in the phonostage I tested for you, I also hate silver plated copper i.e. Nordost, overpriced bollocks. I would have to say and agree with you that the more exotic pure copper processes down seem to bring very nice benefits to the listening experience and that's why I'm thinking of spending £400 (on a whim) for try this new cable. At the end of the day I'm happy to discuss and experiment with things like this as usually improvements can be found for modest outlay, so, I say continue experimenting!!
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Post by rexton on Jun 21, 2022 16:03:44 GMT
Silver (pure) can provie one of the sweetest and most open sounds no question BUT is has to be PURE not silver plated. Although I find in excentuates the bass but quite a large margin, Kondo and audio note cables are prome examples of this. Silver plated multi stranded copper imho are utterly PHISH and best used a low grade toe rope regardless of cost. Bloody hell, Tony, I couldn't agree more with respects to Kondo cabling, My SME V and SME V-12 are both wired with the stuff and produce prodigous bass levels. Secondly, I had a reasonable level Nordost tonearm cable (silver plated crud), I still own it, but compared to other "lesser" brands sounds she-hite.
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Bigman80
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Posts: 15,977
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 21, 2022 16:39:54 GMT
For me, cables that provide a particular "flavour" have been the ones that haven't lasted. Much like my approach with the equipment, the ethos is that it should not be playing a part ..... Or as close to that as possible. Everytime I try a silver cable, it's drawn attention to itself. The Xangsane cable did this the least of any silver I have tried....but it still does it. It could also be that because I have used copper for so long, I am indoctrinated with its characteristics and can't adjust to anything else. However, I think the reported merits of silver Vs copper are bullshit, especially when you get to the really good copper. There isnt anything good copper can't do that silver can. Oli, all cables provide a "flavour", otherwise you wouldn't be able to use descriptive lanuage to describe what your hearing when you use a new cable, such as your new tonearm cable.
I presume your going to review the cable (which I would like to hear your thoughts) and you;ll describe how / what impact it's had on your system. The SEAC speaker cable provides a flavour, one, for me which was more pleasing than the last cable I heard and overall produced a "tone", or "presentation" which I liked. I agree with the idea of indoctrination, I'm a little more sceptical about your comments regarding "silver v copper", to me silver has always trumped copper, remember when I disliked the gold plated copper in the phonostage I tested for you, I also hate silver plated copper i.e. Nordost, overpriced bollocks. I would have to say and agree with you that the more exotic pure copper processes down seem to bring very nice benefits to the listening experience and that's why I'm thinking of spending £400 (on a whim) for try this new cable. At the end of the day I'm happy to discuss and experiment with things like this as usually improvements can be found for modest outlay, so, I say continue experimenting!!
Yes, i recall the experimental gold plated copper, and its subsequent removal lol. I know cables have characteristics, but when those characteristics start to become intrusive i think that's a sign that the cable isn't a very good one. Thats where Silver and i have always come to blows. It has a particular presentation that i just don't like. Brian is right, you need masses of silver to get close to the weight and impact that Copper has. I suppose the better wording is that High quality copper is closest to being sonically invisible to me.
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Post by rexton on Jun 21, 2022 17:00:32 GMT
Yes, i recall the experimental gold plated copper, and its subsequent removal lol. I know cables have characteristics, but when those characteristics start to become intrusive i think that's a sign that the cable isn't a very good one. Thats where Silver and i have always come to blows. It has a particular presentation that i just don't like. Brian is right, you need masses of silver to get close to the weight and impact that Copper has. I suppose the better wording is that High quality copper is closest to being sonically invisible to me.
I think "ANY" bit of your system can become obtrusive I remember trying a AUDIO TECHNICA AT OC9/II ages ago the treble was so pronounced it made Rob Halford (in full scream mode) sound like a muted fart, really, really, glaring high treble. So, this lasted no more than 5 hours in the system and a bye-bye!
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 15,977
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 21, 2022 17:08:45 GMT
Yes, i recall the experimental gold plated copper, and its subsequent removal lol. I know cables have characteristics, but when those characteristics start to become intrusive i think that's a sign that the cable isn't a very good one. Thats where Silver and i have always come to blows. It has a particular presentation that i just don't like. Brian is right, you need masses of silver to get close to the weight and impact that Copper has. I suppose the better wording is that High quality copper is closest to being sonically invisible to me.
I think "ANY" bit of your system can become obtrusive I remember trying a AUDIO TECHNICA AT OC9/II ages ago the treble was so pronounced it made Rob Halford (in full scream mode) sound like a muted fart, really, really, glaring high treble. So, this lasted no more than 5 hours in the system and a bye-bye!
It can....I absolutely agree.
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Post by robbiegong on Jun 21, 2022 18:06:02 GMT
Thanks Dave, I'm currently trying to save for a future amp upgrade so all pennies will have to go towards that pot first
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 15,977
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 21, 2022 19:00:32 GMT
Thanks Dave, I'm currently trying to save for a future amp upgrade so all pennies will have to go towards that pot first Nasty plugs. I said I'd send you an arm cable to try, didn't I?. I'll build it up this week and post it down. Give it some play time and let me know what happens.
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