Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 24, 2019 10:36:10 GMT
Too many to list in the title such as fancy mains leads, demagnetisers, mains filters, CD pens etc etc. I’m sure you get the picture. Are they all in the same camp for you? Are some more valid than others?
I’ve had differing experiences over the years, but I’ve gradually moved from an inveterate tweaker to someone who can’t be arsed. The differences are sometimes thee but you just tend to adjust to the new “normal” and the improvements don’t make you any happier. If you’re generally happy with your system and how it plays music, I don’t see much value in enhancement accessories, but I’m happy to be proved wrong.
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Post by macca on Jul 24, 2019 12:02:27 GMT
I can see that isolation devices under certain 'vibration vulnerable' components (turntables, anything with valves in) might help. A mains filter might do something *if* there's a problem to fix.
Cable lifters, green pens, cd demagnetisers are all utter bollocks. Some of the worst-sounding systems I've ever heard - at shows - used cable lifters and mains regenerators. Strictly for the enthusiast who already has absolutely everything else but still has money left over I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 12:43:49 GMT
Hmm. Isolation cones? Don't think I've ever seen any. I've got support cones and spikes, but they don't isolate, they couple!  |
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Post by macca on Jul 24, 2019 14:00:17 GMT
The whole thing is a grey area though isn't it? As long as someone believes that the tweak they are doing will change the sound then it's going to change the sound. That's why my 'banana atop the pre-amp' tweak doesn't work for anyone - it has no technical credibility. Whereas something like the green pen does work for some as their is a faux technical explanation for it and they believe it.
So it doesn't matter to the typical punter whether the cones are isolating or coupling or whatever. They just need to believe that some sort of benefit will result from deploying them, and hey presto! An upgrade!
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2019 14:15:15 GMT
I got heavily into the green pen on CD's thing and honestly thought I could hear a difference. When I heard similar things when green-penning an LP, alarm bells began to ring. I maintain our brains are SO easily fooled, so if these add-ons make a non-scientific subjective difference for you, then so be it I did smile when a pic of the recent German show had a display with expensive hose-pipe cables all on risers and then then some touching the wall as the mains cables were looped round too plug in the wall. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 24, 2019 15:23:17 GMT
Well they do something, you'd have to be deaf not to hear a difference between rubber/sorbothane isolation and cones between my Cube 3's. I'm not getting fooled into buy cables risers though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 15:26:47 GMT
I got heavily into the green pen on CD's thing and honestly thought I could hear a difference. When I heard similar things when green-penning an LP, alarm bells began to ring. I tried green penning the wife's lips, but she still sounded as annoying as ever.  |
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Post by macca on Jul 24, 2019 17:06:31 GMT
Well they do something, you'd have to be deaf not to hear a difference between rubber/sorbothane isolation and cones between my Cube 3's. I'm not getting fooled into buy cables risers though. Yes I agree that speakers will be affected, even if it is just due to a slight change in the height. Under solid state electronics? No chance of doing anything. |
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Post by macca on Jul 24, 2019 17:27:44 GMT
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Post by antonio on Jul 24, 2019 17:32:19 GMT
Certainly not the height, there's only a gnat's cock hair between sorbothane blob and small cones. I wish I had the inclination to buy bamboo chopping boards for every electrical component and site them on sorbothane or some such squishy thing placed on my rack. Then place spikes between electrical component and bamboo board, thereby isolating and also giving a exit route for any minute vibrations from electrical equipment.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 24, 2019 19:41:23 GMT
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2019 7:19:01 GMT
'Foo if You Think It's Over':
v2.stereotimes.com/post/kemp-elektroniks-maxiimus-p16-shunt-conditioner/
According to the review the improvements it brings are on a par with spending ten thousand dollars on magic beans. Sorry, I mean stones. And don't forget the importance of the mains cable!
Why are otherwise well-educated people so gullible and will it ever change?
This bit is great:
Ron Kemp, a consummate tweaker, founded Kemp Elektroniks in 1999 in Amsterdam. He regards himself as more of music lover than an audiophile and after getting to know him during a review of his products years ago, I would be the first to agree.
Kemp is constantly working to improve existing products through tweaks, rather than proffering expensive, new products that, let's face it, only a few of us can afford. Just take a look at all the tweaks on Kemp's website and you will agree that he is totally wedded to the idea of helping music lovers achieve better sound with the equipment they already own.
Nothing to do with making money out of nothing of course. This bloke is in it for the love of music, he's there to help us. Sure he makes a big profit but that's not why he's doing it. No-one is in the hi-fi industry to make a living after all. They are all just 'music lovers' living in a fluffy world of rainbows and unicorns. F#ck capitalism. We don't do that in hifi.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2019 7:32:20 GMT
I just keep seeing Ross Kemp every time I read this. Never trust a Mitchell bruvver, I say |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2019 7:36:30 GMT
Well Phil Mitchell's catchphrase was always 'I can't believe I'm hearing this', which is weirdly appropriate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 7:38:33 GMT
Yes. And remember, any cable more than 10mm thick is 'Foo'! Oh, and the fancier the braid covering, the higher the price! |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2019 8:07:11 GMT
I’d give him 10/10 for looks though. Those things look like something you’d expect Giorgio A Tsoukalos to be taking into The Great Pyramid to open a portal to another dimension.
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2019 11:22:17 GMT
Yep he clearly knows his market. If you read the review it explains that one of his early upgrades to the product was to add anti-vibration feet.
I still can't work out if the reviewer is utterly cynical or just a bit thick. I have the uncomfortable feeling that they all gather round the coffee machine at breaktime and have a good laugh about the bollocks they have just written.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 11:39:11 GMT
Do not believe in any of this cobblers. Only things in my view that need isolation are Turntables because of the nature of the things ie: Styli moving in a groove.
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2019 12:11:20 GMT
And maybe stuff with valves in. If you want absolute peace of mind. But it probably makes no odds. Soviet aircraft were full of valves and you've got to imagine there's quite a lot of vibration in a jet fighter.
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Post by antonio on Sept 4, 2019 12:48:59 GMT
CD players/transports?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 13:09:51 GMT
In my humble opinion if you mess around with cables, isolation devices, fuses, cable risers, power conditioners etc; you have money to burn, you are bored, you like playing around, you have no idea what you want, or you are simply an audiophile junkie chasing the next high. Remember the first decent system you heard that got you on the merry go round. That was your first high, and you have been chasing that high ever since, hence junkie.
That being said if I did happen to have enough money to burn I would be stroking, fiddling with, and masturbating my kit, with all the tricks in the book, have to admit those thick cables realy do it for me visually. Have heard if you find yourself a Butchers Block it makes isolation products redundant. The only time I have found these to be practical is when some piece of tube gear is Micro- phonic. And if it is, it is cheaper to shift it cause it is junk. Have to admit isolating a CDP does bring out a tad more sparkle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 13:12:53 GMT
In my humble opinion if you mess around with cables, isolation devices, fuses, cable risers, power conditioners etc; you have money to burn, you are bored, you like playing around, you have no idea what you want, or you are simply an audiophile junkie chasing the next high. Remember the first decent system you heard that got you on the merry go round. That was your first high and you have been chasing that high ever since hence junkie. Its utter muppetry imho. Hi-Fi enfoosiast need a Clinic |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 13:17:22 GMT
I think in the long run chucking money at your kit might be a safer bet than falling into the clutches of a mental health professional, it will be cheaper as well, they realy will screw you up, worse than before.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 13:28:37 GMT
You buy a turntable worth £500 & add another £300 is bits of crap You will still get £500 for it. Mental illness does play a big part in Audio enthusiasts  |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2019 17:27:33 GMT
Not unless the vibration is so bad it is causing it to skip. Nobody worries about vibration in a CD/ROM drive on a computer and yet they still read the data perfectly well and run the program without a problem. I've also imagined differences when messing about with weights and platforms and such like. Our brains are very good at imaging differences. They actually try to do it whether we want them to or not. Hence the whole snake oil industry has sprung up to milk people who are unaware of that fact. That review I linked to up above is a classic example. Nothing has changed in regards to the signal reaching his speakers yet given a little time to warm up he starts to perceive improvements in the sound - always improvements of course. Now if the bloke had told him 'This will make your system sound like Sh#t' he'd more than likely come to that conclusion instead. Whereas if he tried my banana on the pre-amp trick he'd perceive no difference because he firmly believes, like most of us, that you can't change the sound with a banana. Hypnotism works on a similar principle. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 17:36:32 GMT
That made me think of the programme where they go into a family house & try get to budget their money thro swapping food for none descript labels. The amount of people that said they did not like it as an alternative or it was better to find out they said it was the same as what they always been using lol.
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 4, 2019 19:55:36 GMT
Those who can do, those who cant, foo.
It's that simple really, it you can build your own electronics you seldom bugger about with foo.
If all you can do is swap cables and plugs and stick stuff in, under or on your kit, have at it. But one's time would be better spent learning how stuff really works and building gear.
Ime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:16:25 GMT
If you are capable of being so fantastic at making stuff of you own why are you even bothering buying Equipment? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 15:05:28 GMT
Those who can do, those who cant, foo. It's that simple really, it you can build your own electronics you seldom bugger about with foo. If all you can do is swap cables and plugs and stick stuff in, under or on your kit, have at it. But one's time would be better spent learning how stuff really works and building gear. Ime. Do you think that you might be able to sound a tad more supercilious if you tried,rhetorical question natch. |
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Post by macca on Sept 5, 2019 15:50:49 GMT
He's right though. And I say that as someone who is capable of building F#ck-all.
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