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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:28:29 GMT
Interesting, thanks Jez. You've only got to read forums to realize why it's a good idea to stick a grand or two on what would otherwise be a reasonable price generating a reasonable profit. The practice of judging sound quality by price is still pretty widespread. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast these days. The market for hi fi gear is constantly shrinking and there are so many "greedy" middlemen who want a share of the cake... from landlords of factory space, staff wages, distributors mark up, advertising costs and dealers mark ups. Dealers often expect about half the money you pay just for having stocked it and for demonstrating it to you! A guesstimate of material costs for the Orton could be transformers £40-50, Casework £50-80 and everything else in it another £50.... Showroom and livingroom appeal mean that it is the norm for a disproportionate amount of money being spent on the appearance of gear and for all sorts of compromises to be made where the eye can't see it in order to pay for this... I'm not on a downer on the Orton specifically here BTW as it is merely typical of the market and happens to be the model that started this drift off topic... One will often see 1/2" thick anodised aluminium front panels and then find that the rest of the casework is rather flimsy! Huge turned brass gold plated vol knobs turning a £2 vol control exactly as would have been fitted to a NAD 3020 or a music centre is another very common one. Years ago my own plan for world hi fi dominance (LOL) was to make gear that sounded like say £3000 but only cost £1000... much of the saving being in rather utilitarian casework and aesthetics... "sounds amazing but looks like it was made in a shed" if you like... but it seems the hi fi buying public won't go for that and that the marketing bods know what they are doing... Another major factor is all the foo bullshit that has become widely believed by much of the non technical hi fi buying public! Certain visible aspects of a typical amplifier now have to built in a way the public expects to see even though they have zero effect on sound quality and take up money from places where it should have been spent! Try selling anything without gold plated sockets these days for example... or with speaker connectors that are not turned from solid, over-sized and gold plated... Such things were not present on amps in the 60's and 70's because they are simply not necessary. Come 'ere, there's more. Transformers that are actually way bigger than required are often fitted these days... now it can't do any harm for sure, and it does cost the manufacturer a good bit extra, but the "feel the weight of this! It MUST be great!" customer appeal is worth it to them in sales... In spite of my having problems with Musical Fidelity in terms of the way staff, dealers and customers were treated by them, I have a sneaky regard for many of their 80's and 90's products in that there was genuinely innovative and "high end" circuit topologies and ideas used in many of the products even at the budget end of the market and money would be saved elsewhere such as the rudimentary but attractive casework of the likes of the A1, the only just big enough mains transformers, the cheap parts used where nothing better was needed, cheap binding posts and phono sockets etc... It came back to bite them in the A1 and MA50's for example as the money saving on heatsinking and lack of fans meant they didn't last much longer than the guarantee! Many of their other models (this thread really is drifting!) were superb and it always puzzles me why there is constant talk of eg Naim and Quad when all sorts of SH bargain MF amps will piss on them from a great height and for a third of the price!! IE P140, P150, P170, P180, P270, A370, B200.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:48:02 GMT
Very good post, Jez. This is why I stick with my daft Denon amp. The Denon is nothing special but sounds OK enough through my ears.
S.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:52:29 GMT
My daughter bought a Denon amp new for about £250 a couple of years ago. And it's bloody amazing!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 16:05:01 GMT
At the end of the day the elektrickery doesn't know if it's going through a £250 or £2500 amplifier...
FWIW a Naim NAP250 has VERY similar circuitry to the power amp section of the A&R A60 for example....
Unfortunately, as with so many things in life, branding is everything in hi fi!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 16:17:56 GMT
I often wonder what the cost (in parts) are for the Harbeth P3ESR Speakers?
S.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 16:33:54 GMT
I often wonder what the cost (in parts) are for the Harbeth P3ESR Speakers? S. £342.87
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 16:35:16 GMT
I often wonder what the cost (in parts) are for the Harbeth P3ESR Speakers? S. Not defending overpriced products but cost of parts tells you nothing. There is assembly labour and time, plus overhead costs such as rent and rates. Also development costs and packaging / marketing. The biggest issue is just charging what they can get away with and dealer and distributor markups. Putting a fancy facia is not the real reason that some products are more expensive but it may be an excuse to charge for the look. Good industrial design can ensure products that look great and don't cost the earth. The problem is buyers don't use their ears otherwise Naim and others would not still be in business. I don't know if the hi-fi market is still shrinking but there appear to be more brands than ever with fewer specialised dealers that sell them. A lot of them will disappear from the UK market rendering long term warranty and repair an issue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 16:43:56 GMT
I often wonder what the cost (in parts) are for the Harbeth P3ESR Speakers? S. Not defending overpriced products but cost of parts tells you nothing. There is assembly labour and time, plus overhead costs such as rent and rates. Also development costs and packaging / marketing. The biggest issue is just charging what they can get away with and dealer and distributor markups. Putting a fancy facia is not the real reason that some products are more expensive but it may be an excuse to charge for the look. Good industrial design can ensure products that look great and don't cost the earth. The problem is buyers don't use their ears otherwise Naim and others would not still be in business. I don't know if the hi-fi market is still shrinking but there appear to be more brands than ever with fewer specialised dealers that sell them. A lot of them will disappear from the UK market rendering long term warranty and repair an issue. I already know that! S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 16:53:55 GMT
At the end of the day the elektrickery doesn't know if it's going through a £250 or £2500 amplifier... FWIW a Naim NAP250 has VERY similar circuitry to the power amp section of the A&R A60 for example.... Unfortunately, as with so many things in life, branding is everything in hi fi! I’m glad I heard that from you because folk have denied it when I said so.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 17:04:47 GMT
Classic is dead right in buyers not solely using their ears and it’s often kinda accepted but somehow never applies to us. It’s always other folk. I fully admit to being influenced by visuals. I first realised when every pair of black kans sounded worse than teak ones. I just don’t like the presence of black kit and it sometimes affects my perception.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 17:08:27 GMT
Interesting, thanks Jez. You've only got to read forums to realize why it's a good idea to stick a grand or two on what would otherwise be a reasonable price generating a reasonable profit. The practice of judging sound quality by price is still pretty widespread. Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast these days. The market for hi fi gear is constantly shrinking and there are so many "greedy" middlemen who want a share of the cake... from landlords of factory space, staff wages, distributors mark up, advertising costs and dealers mark ups. Dealers often expect about half the money you pay just for having stocked it and for demonstrating it to you! A guesstimate of material costs for the Orton could be transformers £40-50, Casework £50-80 and everything else in it another £50.... Showroom and livingroom appeal mean that it is the norm for a disproportionate amount of money being spent on the appearance of gear and for all sorts of compromises to be made where the eye can't see it in order to pay for this... I'm not on a downer on the Orton specifically here BTW as it is merely typical of the market and happens to be the model that started this drift off topic... One will often see 1/2" thick anodised aluminium front panels and then find that the rest of the casework is rather flimsy! Huge turned brass gold plated vol knobs turning a £2 vol control exactly as would have been fitted to a NAD 3020 or a music centre is another very common one. Years ago my own plan for world hi fi dominance (LOL) was to make gear that sounded like say £3000 but only cost £1000... much of the saving being in rather utilitarian casework and aesthetics... "sounds amazing but looks like it was made in a shed" if you like... but it seems the hi fi buying public won't go for that and that the marketing bods know what they are doing... Another major factor is all the foo bullshit that has become widely believed by much of the non technical hi fi buying public! Certain visible aspects of a typical amplifier now have to built in a way the public expects to see even though they have zero effect on sound quality and take up money from places where it should have been spent! Try selling anything without gold plated sockets these days for example... or with speaker connectors that are not turned from solid, over-sized and gold plated... Such things were not present on amps in the 60's and 70's because they are simply not necessary. Come 'ere, there's more. Transformers that are actually way bigger than required are often fitted these days... now it can't do any harm for sure, and it does cost the manufacturer a good bit extra, but the "feel the weight of this! It MUST be great!" customer appeal is worth it to them in sales... In spite of my having problems with Musical Fidelity in terms of the way staff, dealers and customers were treated by them, I have a sneaky regard for many of their 80's and 90's products in that there was genuinely innovative and "high end" circuit topologies and ideas used in many of the products even at the budget end of the market and money would be saved elsewhere such as the rudimentary but attractive casework of the likes of the A1, the only just big enough mains transformers, the cheap parts used where nothing better was needed, cheap binding posts and phono sockets etc... It came back to bite them in the A1 and MA50's for example as the money saving on heatsinking and lack of fans meant they didn't last much longer than the guarantee! Many of their other models (this thread really is drifting!) were superb and it always puzzles me why there is constant talk of eg Naim and Quad when all sorts of SH bargain MF amps will piss on them from a great height and for a third of the price!! IE P140, P150, P170, P180, P270, A370, B200. Jez and I were chatting about the MF A370. He rates them and they go for a good bit less than a Krell. Could be a good buy for someone. One went cheaply recently.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2019 17:12:23 GMT
BTW folks, thread drift is perfectly fine by me. Half the fun of many threads is the digression and diversion, so please “drift away”......but don’t drift away or I’ll be talking to myself!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 17:41:46 GMT
At the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating!
I guess that reading between the lines something I was trying to get across in earlier posts is that just as there is seemingly no limit on how many different ways 8 notes can be rearranged into tunes, there are vast numbers of detail changes possible in using say £10 worth of components per channel (not including PSU, casework etc) to make a power amp, and some will play better tunes than others.....
It's a pity that big picture differences between the archetypal SS class A/B amps are so rare though! The generic SS power amp has an input stage, a voltage amplifier stage, usually a driver stage and then an output stage and then a whole heap of negative feedback to make it all behave and measure well... No wonder then that so many have a similar sound and with similar shortcomings to that sound... ie a certain sterility, greyness, lack of space and air and also that quiet details tend to be masked by the louder more up front sounds, making it all a bit "wall of sound".... It is often only when you hear something like a good example of a Radford valve amp or one of the better Krell class A amps that you realise how much more there is to come from "the power amp" as a generic breed... all IMHO... and I'm not suggesting that members here have not heard sufficient amplifiers to have noticed this for themselves!
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Post by macca on Nov 8, 2019 17:53:43 GMT
It took me many years to realise the amplification is the most important part of a system. I'd heard great systems but when it is someone else's it's easy to think it is the speakers, or the source that are making it great. I mean it is all three to some extent but if the amp is excellent you can get away with a cheap digital source and budget speakers and it will still sound great but if the amp is mediocre it doesn't matter if you have the best speakers and source in the world it will still sound mediocre.
Doesn't help that you have people saying all amps sound the same if they are not clipping. I so wish that were true!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 18:03:00 GMT
Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast these days. The market for hi fi gear is constantly shrinking and there are so many "greedy" middlemen who want a share of the cake... from landlords of factory space, staff wages, distributors mark up, advertising costs and dealers mark ups. Dealers often expect about half the money you pay just for having stocked it and for demonstrating it to you! A guesstimate of material costs for the Orton could be transformers £40-50, Casework £50-80 and everything else in it another £50.... Showroom and livingroom appeal mean that it is the norm for a disproportionate amount of money being spent on the appearance of gear and for all sorts of compromises to be made where the eye can't see it in order to pay for this... I'm not on a downer on the Orton specifically here BTW as it is merely typical of the market and happens to be the model that started this drift off topic... One will often see 1/2" thick anodised aluminium front panels and then find that the rest of the casework is rather flimsy! Huge turned brass gold plated vol knobs turning a £2 vol control exactly as would have been fitted to a NAD 3020 or a music centre is another very common one. Years ago my own plan for world hi fi dominance (LOL) was to make gear that sounded like say £3000 but only cost £1000... much of the saving being in rather utilitarian casework and aesthetics... "sounds amazing but looks like it was made in a shed" if you like... but it seems the hi fi buying public won't go for that and that the marketing bods know what they are doing... Another major factor is all the foo bullshit that has become widely believed by much of the non technical hi fi buying public! Certain visible aspects of a typical amplifier now have to built in a way the public expects to see even though they have zero effect on sound quality and take up money from places where it should have been spent! Try selling anything without gold plated sockets these days for example... or with speaker connectors that are not turned from solid, over-sized and gold plated... Such things were not present on amps in the 60's and 70's because they are simply not necessary. Come 'ere, there's more. Transformers that are actually way bigger than required are often fitted these days... now it can't do any harm for sure, and it does cost the manufacturer a good bit extra, but the "feel the weight of this! It MUST be great!" customer appeal is worth it to them in sales... In spite of my having problems with Musical Fidelity in terms of the way staff, dealers and customers were treated by them, I have a sneaky regard for many of their 80's and 90's products in that there was genuinely innovative and "high end" circuit topologies and ideas used in many of the products even at the budget end of the market and money would be saved elsewhere such as the rudimentary but attractive casework of the likes of the A1, the only just big enough mains transformers, the cheap parts used where nothing better was needed, cheap binding posts and phono sockets etc... It came back to bite them in the A1 and MA50's for example as the money saving on heatsinking and lack of fans meant they didn't last much longer than the guarantee! Many of their other models (this thread really is drifting!) were superb and it always puzzles me why there is constant talk of eg Naim and Quad when all sorts of SH bargain MF amps will piss on them from a great height and for a third of the price!! IE P140, P150, P170, P180, P270, A370, B200. Jez and I were chatting about the MF A370. He rates them and they go for a good bit less than a Krell. Could be a good buy for someone. One went cheaply recently. They are indeed a fabulous sounding amp but I should mention that they have issues as a SH buy... They are not fan cooled and run very hot so you need to budget for a complete re-capping when considering one. There are 5 pairs of 22,000uF 63V caps... per channel! Luckily they are not the "computer grade" type used in Krells so are maybe £20-30 each rather than £100-160 each as in a Krell.... but there's a lot more of them than in most Krell's... The caps on the boards will also need replacing and although cheap enough the job is not easy as the 10 mosfets per channel have to come off/be lifted to do it.... IIRC final list price was around £3700 back in the 90's though so if you can get one cheap enough.... 1000VA transformer per channel (true dual mono)... all those smoothing caps... 10 mosfets per channel... polyprop signal caps... TdP designed.... It's some amplifier! I used one in uncased form (I got it one piece at a time and.. all sing along ) for many years and nothing it went up against was able to beat it, mind you I never got the opportunity to directly compare it with a Krell or Radford level amp in my own system. Of all the commercial amps I tried it against a pair of Albarry 1008 monoblocks gave it its closest run but ultimately it was still a fairly easy win for the MF.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 18:05:07 GMT
It took me many years to realise the amplification is the most important part of a system. I'd heard great systems but when it is someone else's it's easy to think it is the speakers, or the source that are making it great. I mean it is all three to some extent but if the amp is excellent you can get away with a cheap digital source and budget speakers and it will still sound great but if the amp is mediocre it doesn't matter if you have the best speakers and source in the world it will still sound mediocre. Doesn't help that you have people saying all amps sound the same if they are not clipping. I so wish that were true! very true! Good post.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 22:51:04 GMT
It took me many years to realise the amplification is the most important part of a system. I'd heard great systems but when it is someone else's it's easy to think it is the speakers, or the source that are making it great. I mean it is all three to some extent but if the amp is excellent you can get away with a cheap digital source and budget speakers and it will still sound great but if the amp is mediocre it doesn't matter if you have the best speakers and source in the world it will still sound mediocre. Doesn't help that you have people saying all amps sound the same if they are not clipping. I so wish that were true! Dunno mate, I would have agreed untill I heard what my speakers are doing. I stuck my cheap little Chinese amp through them tonight and the amp sounded cack. The Speakers showed up that little beast. I am of the opinion that I went the wrong way about building the system by starting with source first. I should have gone: 1) speakers 2) Amplifier 3) preamp 4) source 5) Peripherals If I had done it that way, who know what opinions of mine would have been. saying that, if the source wasn't any good, you can't retrieve it at the amp. Hmmmm, maybe I did do it right lol
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2019 1:53:00 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 7:35:27 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC. I don't think you need to be quite as careful with digital as you do with vinyl. Most CD players will do a cracking job straight out of the box but as always, if you want to get the best sound, there will be areas you need to consider.
For instance, if you expect an old DVD player to sound as good as everything else, I think that would be shown as a mistake.
Vinyl really does need a top class front end and phonostage to show it at it's very best and i'm afraid if you haven't got that, you'll never know how good vinyl can be.
in terms of a hierarchy, I am 100% sure that my opinion is that it is all equally as important and if I were to star over, id do it the same. the rest of the chain can only be as good as the source
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 7:57:23 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC. Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit.
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 8:05:35 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC. I don't think you need to be quite as careful with digital as you do with vinyl. Most CD players will do a cracking job straight out of the box but as always, if you want to get the best sound, there will be areas you need to consider.
For instance, if you expect an old DVD player to sound as good as everything else, I think that would be shown as a mistake.
Vinyl really does need a top class front end and phonostage to show it at it's very best and i'm afraid if you haven't got that, you'll never know how good vinyl can be.
in terms of a hierarchy, I am 100% sure that my opinion is that it is all equally as important and if I were to star over, id do it the same. the rest of the chain can only be as good as the source
You say that but then you were dead against digital at one time. Remember when I brought you round that Sony CD player just after you had got the Krell and DCB1 in play and you were amazed how good it sounded? Even though you were still using those Pioneers which on the whole were not much cop. And in the grand scheme of things that Sony is nothing like top notch as far as CD players go. And we were listening to Creedence, which are a long way from audiophile recordings. Creedence on a poor system will sound really rough and bad.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 8:24:00 GMT
I don't think you need to be quite as careful with digital as you do with vinyl. Most CD players will do a cracking job straight out of the box but as always, if you want to get the best sound, there will be areas you need to consider.
For instance, if you expect an old DVD player to sound as good as everything else, I think that would be shown as a mistake.
Vinyl really does need a top class front end and phonostage to show it at it's very best and i'm afraid if you haven't got that, you'll never know how good vinyl can be.
in terms of a hierarchy, I am 100% sure that my opinion is that it is all equally as important and if I were to star over, id do it the same. the rest of the chain can only be as good as the source
You say that but then you were dead against digital at one time. Remember when I brought you round that Sony CD player just after you had got the Krell and DCB1 in play and you were amazed how good it sounded? Even though you were still using those Pioneers which on the whole were not much cop. And in the grand scheme of things that Sony is nothing like top notch as far as CD players go. And we were listening to Creedence, which are a long way from audiophile recordings. Creedence on a poor system will sound really rough and bad. Oh yes, I was definitely dead against digital at the time.
That Sony CD player was, and still is a great performer but as you say, it's nowhere near top notch. But it does prove what I said to be right in that in the digital realm, it's far cheaper and easier to get a respectable sound than playing vinyl.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2019 8:34:15 GMT
I’ve been at it all these years and I still haven’t really seen a definitive hierarchy that applies in all situations. I still lean towards source first, especially with vinyl. But then you need an amp and speaker pairing to do it justice and you need a room that lets the speakers do their job. With efficient/easy to drive speakers, you don’t need a huge amp. The idea that you can just wire up any old CD player and get good sound is just plain wrong AFAIC. Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. I respect anyone who has loads of experience and isn’t afraid to say they don’t know. I’ve even heard professionals like Jez say it about exactly what makes a great sounding amp. I don’t know why so many CD players fail to make a decent sound to me, but my suspicion is cheapo power supplies. I haven’t heard any low-mid price CD player sound good and that’s the obvious thing I see when I look inside them, but it could well be 2+2=5
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 8:40:46 GMT
Yes it is far cheaper to get a great sound with digital, but only if the amplification is well sorted for digital. I stuck with vinyl for years after cd came out because cd was crap by comparison Or at least I thought it was, but it turned out it was the amplifiers I was using that were the problem. I should have sussed that out years ago but I didn't. I thought it was 'digital' that was the problem and the mags all said the same thing and I believed them. I hate the mags.
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 8:46:13 GMT
Not a huge amp just a good one. For digital the pre-amp seems to be the make or break. I've read that the 2 volt (or more) output from CD players and DACS overloads some amps from the off and that's why digital doesn't sound so good with a lot of amplifiers. Maybe that's the reason, I don't know for sure. It would make sense though as you can run a sorted vinyl system through the same amplification and it can sound amazing. I really don't know, it is still a mystery to me after 30 years and a ton of different kit. I respect anyone who has loads of experience and isn’t afraid to say they don’t know. I’ve even heard professionals like Jez say it about exactly what makes a great sounding amp. I don’t know why so many CD players fail to make a decent sound to me, but my suspicion is cheapo power supplies. I haven’t heard any low-mid price CD player sound good and that’s the obvious thing I see when I look inside them, but it could well be 2+2=5 Power supplies was my theory too but now I'm not even sure about that!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 8:59:12 GMT
Yes it is far cheaper to get a great sound with digital, but only if the amplification is well sorted for digital. I stuck with vinyl for years after cd came out because cd was crap by comparison Or at least I thought it was, but it turned out it was the amplifiers I was using that were the problem. I should have sussed that out years ago but I didn't. I thought it was 'digital' that was the problem and the mags all said the same thing and I believed them. I hate the mags. Well I don't have any concerns about the amplifier I have now.
You'll have to come and have a listen Martin.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 9:00:33 GMT
I respect anyone who has loads of experience and isn’t afraid to say they don’t know. I’ve even heard professionals like Jez say it about exactly what makes a great sounding amp. I don’t know why so many CD players fail to make a decent sound to me, but my suspicion is cheapo power supplies. I haven’t heard any low-mid price CD player sound good and that’s the obvious thing I see when I look inside them, but it could well be 2+2=5 Power supplies was my theory too but now I'm not even sure about that! I know it's a slightly different KOF but I am using a SMPS on the Pecan Pi and its stunningly good. A little "dry" on some material but I really like it. 9v and 2A is all it requires.
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2019 9:03:25 GMT
I am eager to, especially now you've got some serious loudspeakers too. Must be sounding amazing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 9:04:14 GMT
Power supplies was my theory too but now I'm not even sure about that! I know it's a slightly different KOF but I am using a SMPS on the Pecan Pi and its stunningly good. A little "dry" on some material but I really like it. 9v and 2A is all it requires. DC is just DC. If the quality is good and current adequate, SMPS or LPS should make no odds. And I don't want anybody going on about HF artifacts with SMPS, they don't occur if the filtering is there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 9:08:01 GMT
I know it's a slightly different KOF but I am using a SMPS on the Pecan Pi and its stunningly good. A little "dry" on some material but I really like it. 9v and 2A is all it requires. DC is just DC. If the quality is good and current adequate, SMPS or LPS should make no odds. And I don't want anybody going on about HF artifacts with SMPS, they don't occur if the filtering is there. Arent they just below the audible range in well designed kit?
BTW, the Pecan, the Neurochrome Pre and the Neurochrome Power amps are all using SMPS. Would never have thought I would have said that 1 year ago!
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