Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 7:36:39 GMT
ittok and ekos both too good for that pos lp12 lvx plus with k18 was the best combo i owned on the lp12 yep aro came out about 89.. i owned an ittok and ekos..both sold off within a few weeks of buying them.. What did you make of the Aro? I’d have loved one but no way would I cue manually. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 7:38:29 GMT
never had an aro mate
never liked the idea of having no cueing arm..on the lp12 you'de need to be too careful everytime u changed sides..
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2019 7:39:26 GMT
I thought the ARO came first and a few years before the Ekos, but memory being as it is I could be wrong. Only really worked on a later Lp12 as the decks at the time weren't good enough. Javelin is in a different world to operate despite looking similar and being a pain to set up. FAR less wobble when playing and that's before the silicon oil drops added to the bearing which improve the sound further... Client I did the deck for is apparently delighted with it!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 7:48:25 GMT
You don't hear the grain then? I heard a brand new Akito a couple of months back and the similar price (I think ) Javelin wiped it's nose comfortably.. The LV II can sound clanky on the wrong deck, but as with all these things, you choose the cartridge carefully I suppose. Some of the modern non AT MC's don't seem so fussy these days it appears. The short lived LV III may be similar to the first Ekos's (so the story goes), but I really loved that one (the Ekos was at least 50% more expensive) and I don't think the bearings became clogged on that one compared to the early Ekos either. Well, I suppose four weeks is long enough to condemn a Croft Series V, but I loved the ones I heard and I think the Pro-Ac Response 2's were good enough to show what it could do. Preamp was always a Croft model, either a Micro 4SA, 4PP like the ones I had or the two box Mega Micro, so maybe there was a synergy thing going on there... Javelin looks interesting. I doubt you will find many people who think an Akito is beaten by an LVX Plus though. I don’t personally hear any grain, but I’ve only used it on Basik, Axis and LP12 decks so maybe not revealing enough as a workout. I dunno what it is with the Ittok. Our shop one sounded “nice” in a stylised sort of way. The three I bought after that were just meh. I doubt all three had issues and I sold two of them to Arthur K, so I’m sure he’d have let me know if they were duff. My Ekos was one of the first and I loved it. I replaced an lvx plus with it and it’s still the biggest improvement I’ve heard from a single component change. I even remember the album and track, as well as the wonderful feeling it brought. On a handful of tracks, LP12/Ekos/OC9 has emailed unbeaten. I’m still completely in the dark with Croft . I’ve had so many near misses on preamps and I even bought a 7r very cheaply. The seller apparently posted it twice only for the courier to return it to him undelivered. I was in Cyprus and it went to a mates house where there was always someone in. No card was ever left and I’ve no idea what happened but I ended up with a refund, |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 7:50:42 GMT
I thought the ARO came first and a few years before the Ekos, but memory being as it is I could be wrong. Only really worked on a later Lp12 as the decks at the time weren't good enough. Javelin is in a different world to operate despite looking similar and being a pain to set up. FAR less wobble when playing and that's before the silicon oil drops added to the bearing which improve the sound further... Client I did the deck for is apparently delighted with it! I seem to remember Ekos first, but I’m not 100% sure. Considering how many people love the Aro, I think Tiger Paw will do well. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 7:52:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 7:58:04 GMT
lvx plus was a good match for the valhalla deck back then..in fact my lp12 with that arm was pretty good and by far the best lp12 combo i had.. the ekos lingo arkiv was shite.
then foolishly i went on the so called upgrade path..wont fall fo that crap again
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 7:59:59 GMT
yep i bought one circa march 89..couldn't afford the ekos at the time..ittok oc7 was a dreadful combo..lvx plus k18 was far better |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2019 8:25:54 GMT
No such arm as an LVX Plus. You all claim to have owned them but don't remember the exact monika of the thing - I ask ya 
There was also Linn instructed (to me anyway) maintenance for the Ittok but I doubt many people apart from Peter Swain at Cymbiosis would know what was needed, let alone what to do. Reason is that in intervening years, amateur numpties have got their greasy paws on them, fitting and removing cartridges and probably overtightening everything as we Linn dealers were prone to do (they're far better educated now and Linn now provide proper tools to do the job and not just an allen key which we all used wrongly to overtighten pillar nuts despite Linn's explanation on how the arm pillar and bas were actually locked together in an 'engineer's clamp' needing actually little force from the locking bolt to hold it all firmly).
Some of these preferred and disliked products often swing from one extreme to the other, almost as if each item was used to balance errors elsewhere (we all blame the bit not often at fault, me included).
See, I can add the Harbeth SHL5 to my disliked list, but I can't because it's the room and too-close proximity to the back wall causing the issues. AS has posted definitively about this and linked to an earlier post regarding my exact speaker model, so they were designed to do what they do and act just as described when 'only' eighteen inches away from the back wall - I suppose Harbeth owners all have large barely furnished rooms and looking at Facebook pics I rather think they do... Links below if any of you can be bothered to read them -
Post #7 -
Use SBL's that way and they'd scream to high heaven...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 8:42:12 GMT
always thought it was the lvx..linns basic arm back in the late 80's
what was the exact name then?
my lp12's were always set up by raleigh hifi in chelmsford or doug bradeys in covent garden..i used to work mostly in the west end so used to pester them when i had time lol
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2019 8:50:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 9:16:25 GMT
mine was black..lvx it is then lol  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 9:27:37 GMT
No such arm as an LVX Plus. You all claim to have owned them but don't remember the exact monika of the thing - I ask ya There was also Linn instructed (to me anyway) maintenance for the Ittok but I doubt many people apart from Peter Swain at Cymbiosis would know what was needed, let alone what to do. Reason is that in intervening years, amateur numpties have got their greasy paws on them, fitting and removing cartridges and probably overtightening everything as we Linn dealers were prone to do (they're far better educated now and Linn now provide proper tools to do the job and not just an allen key which we all used wrongly to overtighten pillar nuts despite Linn's explanation on how the arm pillar and bas were actually locked together in an 'engineer's clamp' needing actually little force from the locking bolt to hold it all firmly). Some of these preferred and disliked products often swing from one extreme to the other, almost as if each item was used to balance errors elsewhere (we all blame the bit not often at fault, me included). See, I can add the Harbeth SHL5 to my disliked list, but I can't because it's the room and too-close proximity to the back wall causing the issues. AS has posted definitively about this and linked to an earlier post regarding my exact speaker model, so they were designed to do what they do and act just as described when 'only' eighteen inches away from the back wall - I suppose Harbeth owners all have large barely furnished rooms and looking at Facebook pics I rather think they do... Links below if any of you can be bothered to read them -
Post #7 - Use SBL's that way and they'd scream to high heaven...
“Claim” to have owned them? Come on Dave. Do you really doubt that? Loads of people call it the LVX plus. Edit, I should add that I’ve owned both LVX and. “Basik Plus”: Both poor and the fixed headshell was just lipstick on a pig for me.YMMv and that’s fine cos it’s only hifi. |
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Post by macca on Jul 20, 2019 9:37:33 GMT
Post #7 -
Use SBL's that way and they'd scream to high heaven...
Q 'I want some Harbeths but they don't work in my room, too much mid bass.' A 'Get an amp with tone controls and turn the bass down. They do it in the recording studio so that means it is okay to do at home.' Or he could try buying some speakers that do work in his room even if they are not Harbeths. And since when have recording and playback had anything to do with each other? Totally different things. What a load of bollox. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 20, 2019 9:44:28 GMT
I remember being advised by Hamish (Sound Org York) the Ittok was better than the Aro although when we did the dem, it was quite clear to both of use the Aro was the better. I did eventually plump for the Ekos though. In the early 2000's I did go to another dealer for another dem between the two an still preferred the Ekos.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 10:02:50 GMT
I remember being advised by Hamish (Sound Org York) the Ittok was better than the Aro although when we did the dem, it was quite clear to both of use the Aro was the better. I did eventually plump for the Ekos though. In the early 2000's I did go to another dealer for another dem between the two an still preferred the Ekos. I don’t know exactly what it was, but I never took to Hamish. David was a young guy back then and I always preferred to deal with him. He had the same sort of enthusiasm I had. We didn’t always like the same things but I always respected his opinions and he had a sincerity I liked. Good shop IMO. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2019 10:19:37 GMT
Apologies westie, but I tend to take a set when some products are, for me, unfairly maligned when I'm convinced they can do better. Today, I still think a Basik Plus has much to offer and as it always worked well imo with the AT based Linn cartridges, I feel a modern 500 model should be great, even the 540 as it seems to flesh the music out a bit more than the cheaper models if the Lowbeats sound-bites are anything to go by  Forgive me again here, but liking a CDS, CDI 'and' a CDX, which I remembering sounding nothing like the other two? I loved the CDI at the time for its basic musicality, but for me anyway, this was chucked away in the CDX model (CDX2 sort of got it back I remember). Maybe different systems, I don't know, but unlike Linn, I don't think Naim tinkered internally much during a product's life (three board changes in 94-95 in the Numerik for example and the first Ikemi we had for dem was nothing like as good as a later one we directly compared it to for some reason). I'm obviously listening for different things 'first' in my audio gear choices. As for the Harbeth links, the typical owners in the far east have large bare rooms with bass traps and damping panels in and around the back wall with most often, loads of space to show off their stereo's which are often set up as a kind of shrine to the gear. It's a successful balance for these people. My dealer pal has suggested I flog 'em and consider something like one of the new Neat models - neatacoustics.com/ekstra/although in the past, I've found the mix of (albeit doped in this case) cone and ribbon not an ideal blend - we shall see when I get the chance to visit him. When I heard the Iota, which has at least three rave reviews to its name, all I could hear was a slow, slightly 'phat' but highly musical mid bass and midrange, but with a slightly sharp 'tinsel' masquerading for highs, totally different in character to the sound lower down. It just must be me I'm sure... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 10:55:30 GMT
Apologies westie, but I tend to take a set when some products are, for me, unfairly maligned when I'm convinced they can do better. Today, I still think a Basik Plus has much to offer and as it always worked well imo with the AT based Linn cartridges, I feel a modern 500 model should be great, even the 540 as it seems to flesh the music out a bit more than the cheaper models if the Lowbeats sound-bites are anything to go by Forgive me again here, but liking a CDS, CDI 'and' a CDX, which I remembering sounding nothing like the other two? I loved the CDI at the time for its basic musicality, but for me anyway, this was chucked away in the CDX model (CDX2 sort of got it back I remember). Maybe different systems, I don't know, but unlike Linn, I don't think Naim tinkered internally much during a product's life (three board changes in 94-95 in the Numerik for example and the first Ikemi we had for dem was nothing like as good as a later one we directly compared it to for some reason). I'm obviously listening for different things 'first' in my audio gear choices. As for the Harbeth links, the typical owners in the far east have large bare rooms with bass traps and damping panels in and around the back wall with most often, loads of space to show off their stereo's which are often set up as a kind of shrine to the gear. It's a successful balance for these people. My dealer pal has suggested I flog 'em and consider something like one of the new Neat models - neatacoustics.com/ekstra/although in the past, I've found the mix of (albeit doped in this case) cone and ribbon not an ideal blend - we shall see when I get the chance to visit him. When I heard the Iota, which has at least three rave reviews to its name, all I could hear was a slow, slightly 'phat' but highly musical mid bass and midrange, but with a slightly sharp 'tinsel' masquerading for highs, totally different in character to the sound lower down. It just must be me I'm sure... If you want to save the Linn Basik arms rep, you’d need to look wider than me because it’s looked down on pretty widely  CDX to me is more like a Xerxes presentation. A bit “up front” and “brassy” but stirring, It has pace and rtnythm but it’s a start stop kinda sound rather than bouncy and rounded. It might rattle some folk but I embraced it and found it a thrilling player. The CDS and CDI are more “rounded” and “bouncy” and also a bit rolled for to me, a bit more like an LP12 and also lacking some resolution like many examples of the Linn. I found them enjoyable for the rhythm and bounce, I never said the things I liked had to be the same. I liked those player for different reasons. Hope that explains it. Edit: Forgot to ask, but don’t you find the Jelco arms (SA250 variants or rebadged) sold by Misison and Revolver) to be better than the Linn Basiks? I certainly do. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 10:58:32 GMT
although in the past, I've found the mix of (albeit doped in this case) cone and ribbon not an ideal blend - we shall see when I get the chance to visit him. When I heard the Iota, which has at least three rave reviews to its name, all I could hear was a slow, slightly 'phat' but highly musical mid bass and midrange, but with a slightly sharp 'tinsel' masquerading for highs, totally different in character to the sound lower down. It just must be me I'm sure... Nope, not just you. Whenever I've heard Neats I've wondered what all the fuss was about. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2019 11:12:11 GMT
I’m on the fence, I started out liking them, then I went right off them. They do have a bit of a family sound, or at least some family traits. The petite 3s I bought recently are good and enjoyable but they don’t compete with my favourite speakers.
One thing they do seem to be popular for is folk in small rooms wanting to thrash them on rock music. They do entertain when used in this way but as I don’t like small rooms, near field listening or rock music, I think it’s more a case of the shoe not fitting in my case,
I like the designer and I respect his efforts. He is a musician and owns a recording studio, so he has useful insight. He’s also,an honest and helpful bloke, which goes a long way for me. I haven’t heard any of the very expensive speakers so I live in hope of liking them more.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 11:25:55 GMT
monitor audio speakers
wtf is going on there...we demoed a set costing 10 grand here in sweden and they were easily beaten by some 600 quid bose acoustimas 3 ..
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2019 13:21:09 GMT
Basik Plus vs jelco Missions and so on. Actually, I didn't rate the latter arms much *at the time* as they sounded even scrappier (if that's a critique of the LVX and Basik Plus).
I don't know why I'm defending the Basik LVX and Plus models as most now will be knackered in various ways - they don't take clumsy handling for example. The rubbery insert in the counterweight, which should allow the assembly a firm feeling rotation (oo-er missus) back and forth, turned to goo after fifteen years or so and the counterweight then spins almost freely, this really ruining the sound. I believe Audio Origami may have a 'fix' for this with a suitable rubbery tube used instead? (two Basik Pluses supplied by Cymbiosis and seemingly overhauled by AO over the last couple of years have been fine here) but this is one area a Jelco 250 and so on would be far better.
Linn have come full circle, so to speak, and the Majik deck now has a shortened version of the 250 arm fitted. The pipe looks to be larger diameter but this could easily be a visual aspect of the shorter length (around an inch I think if other Jelco's are anything to go by).
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