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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 17:29:40 GMT
Nice to see pics of your Sonneteer gear as always, Andrew. Everyday I'm getting more curious about the Alabaster. Must get round to trying one next year. I read that the Alabaster is a damn fine musical amp with good enough power. But according to some folks, the Alabaster lacks some of the magic of the Campion? S. It’s. A question I’d like to know the answer to, myself, you hear conflicting views but Art K had both and seemed equally happy with them. Having run two Campions in single channel mode.I have a hankering for an Orton too. Hardly anything has CI eup I ages, bu two Ortons went on EBay for under £900 a year ago. Wish I’d snapped one up. New price for Alabaster is £1,500. Would you say that is still good value or a tad overpriced? I've seen a pic of the inside and all looks well laid out etc. I'm no expert or anything, but the parts inside don't look that very expensive. But happily stand corrected If I'm talking Sh#t. S. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 13, 2019 17:49:35 GMT
These days it’s probably par for the course. I’d be looking for a used one at £600-650 and a used Orton for £900 upwards. I’ve seen such prices before so no reason why I won’t see them again, I guess.
Alabaster looks very similar to Campion inside with a slightly bigger transformer. Used prices tend to make any new prices look too high, AFAIC, but at least with Sonneteer you’ve got a higher chance of not sellling on. So many owners seem to want to keep their purchases. I’ll never sell any of mine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 18:05:08 GMT
If I ever buy an Alabaster. I'm hoping it will be my endgame amp, or maybe even a forever keeper!
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 13, 2019 18:32:13 GMT
If I ever buy an Alabaster. I'm hoping it will be my endgame amp, or maybe even a forever keeper! S. You seem to like that extra weight and bigger transformer so it’s probbaly the right choice from the range. If you could try one first, even the new price isn’t bad for something you would be keeping. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 20:48:45 GMT
Do you have more respect for the Nait 1 now, westie? You enjoyed it more than ever than before.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 13, 2019 23:46:13 GMT
Do you have more respect for the Nait 1 now, westie? You enjoyed it more than ever than before. S. Yes definitely. It’s my first experience outside a flat earth system and the Nait had more detai and spatial capability than I’d expected. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 13:09:05 GMT
Westie, sorry for the dumb question. How does the Naim 42/110 sound compared to the Nait 1?
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 14, 2019 13:37:15 GMT
Westie, sorry for the dumb question. How does the Naim 42/110 sound compared to the Nait 1? S. Weightier but a bit shut in. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 15:49:29 GMT
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 15:51:19 GMT
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Post by macca on Apr 15, 2019 17:06:32 GMT
Your penchant for dinky little speakers is a mystery to me. Wouldn't you rather have a big speaker that delivers the sound effortlessly? Maybe this is why you are so keen on semi omnis? Foe me all small speakers start 'shouting' at me when you try putting a bit of volume through them to get some bass and dynamics going.
Those Penaudios do look very pretty though. I like the deep cabs so you don't get too much rear wave reflection, a bit of thought has gone into them it seems.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 17:16:05 GMT
I have had a few few larger speakers and I did like some of them. It might have a lot to do with musical tastes though, as I’m not a rocker and I don’t like large scale classical,either Semi omnis do tend to give massive space and larger scale than lots of big speakers I’ve tried.
I think I’d feel different with a massive room, but I don’t usually enjoy big speakers either close to me, close to each other or close to room boundaries. I still remember the bloke from that Maxell advert being blasted by his system. It’s my idea of hell. I don’t really want that sort of volume or loudness in a normal size room.
That said I think the Penaudios will be too small in scale for me. With conventional speakers, a sweet spot size is the Snell J. Smaller usually don’t cut it and larger (especially floorstanders) are usually sluggish and muddy.
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Post by macca on Apr 15, 2019 17:37:54 GMT
It's not about volume it's about effortlessness. And the bigger the speaker the less loud you have to play it to get that 'presence' going on.
Doesn't matter what the type of music is. A big speaker will give you that sense of the sound hanging in the air that you get with semi-onmis but without faking it.
When I say big I mean big. 50 litre cabs and up. And not some mid-market tat from Mission, MA, or the other usual suspects.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 17:48:16 GMT
It's not about volume it's about effortlessness. And the bigger the speaker the less loud you have to play it to get that 'presence' going on. Doesn't matter what the type of music is. A big speaker will give you that sense of the sound hanging in the air that you get with semi-onmis but without faking it. When I say big I mean big. 50 litre cabs and up. And not some mid-market tat from Mission, MA, or the other usual suspects. That’s been the opposite of my experience. Big speakers (horns excepted) don’t get going unless you play them loud IME. They also usually fail miserably at the “sound hanging in the air” effect compared to more modest sized speakers. I’m not sure why our experiences have been so different but the very worst example was those god-awful Tannoy Cheviots. Two separate boxes screaming at me and the sound never escaping the boxes. The only big speakers I’ve really liked were either horns, ribbons or semi omni. Big normal boxes just don’t do anything I’ve liked so far. Of course there’s always the chance I will hear some I like, but I doubt it would be in a normal sized room. |
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Post by macca on Apr 15, 2019 18:03:45 GMT
Didn't you put up a list of all the speakers you have owned somewhere? I'll have a look for it and see if you've ever had any big ones I've rated.
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Post by macca on Apr 15, 2019 18:16:40 GMT
Here we go
Videoton minimax
MA252 (3 pairs)
MA352 (2 pairs)
Cambridge R50
Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs)
LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs)
Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs)
Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs)
Linn Keilidh
Linn Isobarik
Rega Ela (4 pairs)
Rega Alya
Rega Kyte
Royd Eden
Royd Sapphire
Royd A7
Royd Minstrel (2 pairs)
Proac Super Tablette
ProacTablette 2000
Proac Tablette 50
Epos ES14 (4 pairs)
MF MC4
Ariston QLN1
Alexander 566
Alexander SE2
Mordaunt Short Carnival 2?
Celestion 3
JPW P1 (3 pairs)
JPW AP2
JPW AP3
JPW Sonata
Eltax Liberty 3
Townshend Glastonbury 2
Naim IBL (6 pairs)
Naim SBL (5 pairs)
Naim Credo
Triangle Comete
Heco Celan 300
Snell K (3 pairs)
Audio Note AN-K
Snell J3
Snell J2
Apogee Centaur
Linn nexus
Spica TC50
Spica Angelus
Usher S520
Fullers Audio Sultan
Aplhason Amphion
Arcam 2 (2 pairs)
Dean Alto (2 pairs)
MA652
MA R100
DCM timeframe
DCM Time Window
Rogers LS7
Proac Studio 1
Heybrook HB1
Wharfedale Doamond 9
Impulse H6
Impulse H7
Impulse Lali
NVA cube 1
NVA Cubette
Gale 301 (4 pairs)
Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs)
Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs)
Neat Petite 3
Neat Gravitas
REL storm
Linn Tukan
MA R852 (2 pairs)
Mission 70 mk2
Mission 700le (2 pairs)
Akai SW275?
Klipsch tangent 100
Ruark sabre (2 pairs)
Ruark swordsman
Ruark wordsman plus
Dynaco A25x
Shan Shimna
Only the Isobariks could really be described as big. And at best they are only an okay speaker. There's a lot of quirky designs on that list!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 18:18:52 GMT
Always did have a little soft spot for smaller speakers.
S.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 18:36:27 GMT
Here we go Videoton minimax MA252 (3 pairs) MA352 (2 pairs) Cambridge R50 Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs) LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs) Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs) Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs) Linn Keilidh Linn Isobarik Rega Ela (4 pairs) Rega Alya Rega Kyte Royd Eden Royd Sapphire Royd A7 Royd Minstrel (2 pairs) Proac Super Tablette ProacTablette 2000 Proac Tablette 50 Epos ES14 (4 pairs) MF MC4 Ariston QLN1 Alexander 566 Alexander SE2 Mordaunt Short Carnival 2? Celestion 3 JPW P1 (3 pairs) JPW AP2 JPW AP3 JPW Sonata Eltax Liberty 3 Townshend Glastonbury 2 Naim IBL (6 pairs) Naim SBL (5 pairs) Naim Credo Triangle Comete Heco Celan 300 Snell K (3 pairs) Audio Note AN-K Snell J3 Snell J2 Apogee Centaur Linn nexus Spica TC50 Spica Angelus Usher S520 Fullers Audio Sultan Aplhason Amphion Arcam 2 (2 pairs) Dean Alto (2 pairs) MA652 MA R100 DCM timeframe DCM Time Window Rogers LS7 Proac Studio 1 Heybrook HB1 Wharfedale Doamond 9 Impulse H6 Impulse H7 Impulse Lali NVA cube 1 NVA Cubette Gale 301 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs) Neat Petite 3 Neat Gravitas REL storm Linn Tukan MA R852 (2 pairs) Mission 70 mk2 Mission 700le (2 pairs) Akai SW275? Klipsch tangent 100 Ruark sabre (2 pairs) Ruark swordsman Ruark wordsman plus Dynaco A25x Shan Shimna Only the Isobariks could really be described as big. And at best they are only an okay speaker. There's a lot of quirky designs on that list! Interesting list. The only ones on there that I'd really, really like to try are the DCM Time Windows. That's possibly about as many speakers as I've had, including 22 pairs of Tannoy dual concentrics. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 20:02:40 GMT
Here we go Videoton minimax MA252 (3 pairs) MA352 (2 pairs) Cambridge R50 Linn Kan (0ver 40 pairs) LinnKan 2 (5 or 6 pairs) Linn Sara (7 or 8 pairs) Linn Sara 9 (2 pairs) Linn Keilidh Linn Isobarik Rega Ela (4 pairs) Rega Alya Rega Kyte Royd Eden Royd Sapphire Royd A7 Royd Minstrel (2 pairs) Proac Super Tablette ProacTablette 2000 Proac Tablette 50 Epos ES14 (4 pairs) MF MC4 Ariston QLN1 Alexander 566 Alexander SE2 Mordaunt Short Carnival 2? Celestion 3 JPW P1 (3 pairs) JPW AP2 JPW AP3 JPW Sonata Eltax Liberty 3 Townshend Glastonbury 2 Naim IBL (6 pairs) Naim SBL (5 pairs) Naim Credo Triangle Comete Heco Celan 300 Snell K (3 pairs) Audio Note AN-K Snell J3 Snell J2 Apogee Centaur Linn nexus Spica TC50 Spica Angelus Usher S520 Fullers Audio Sultan Aplhason Amphion Arcam 2 (2 pairs) Dean Alto (2 pairs) MA652 MA R100 DCM timeframe DCM Time Window Rogers LS7 Proac Studio 1 Heybrook HB1 Wharfedale Doamond 9 Impulse H6 Impulse H7 Impulse Lali NVA cube 1 NVA Cubette Gale 301 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 1 (4 pairs) Neat Petite 2 (2 pairs) Neat Petite 3 Neat Gravitas REL storm Linn Tukan MA R852 (2 pairs) Mission 70 mk2 Mission 700le (2 pairs) Akai SW275? Klipsch tangent 100 Ruark sabre (2 pairs) Ruark swordsman Ruark wordsman plus Dynaco A25x Shan Shimna Only the Isobariks could really be described as big. And at best they are only an okay speaker. There's a lot of quirky designs on that list! Interesting list. The only ones on there that I'd really, really like to try are the DCM Time Windows. That's possibly about as many speakers as I've had, including 22 pairs of Tannoy dual concentrics. The time windows sounded huge and really expansive, but I was left with the impression that they neeeded more space. Just woken up after a long afternoon sleep, so will catch up on posts, but Geoff managed to pick out the most successful speaker on scale out of the ones I’ve owned. Impulse H2 sounded bigger again, but they were y mates and he wanted more than I would pay. They were the closest I’ve come to gigantic sound succeeding in an normal size room. |
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Post by savvypaul on Apr 15, 2019 20:06:42 GMT
It's not about volume it's about effortlessness. And the bigger the speaker the less loud you have to play it to get that 'presence' going on. Absolutely this... |
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 20:19:39 GMT
Other biggies out of that list were:
Cambridge R50.....OK actually, but not as responsive as I usually need.
Isobariks (semi omni)
Glastonbury’s (horn)
Apogee Centaur (Ribbon hybrid)
Neat Petite/Gravitas..... Intersting, this one because it’s a capable small speaker tirmed into an isobaric big one.....and IMO utter shite.
My mates have tried a few biggies in their average sized rooms and not one has sounded any good to me. Worst of all we’re Martin Logan hybrids and those Tannoys.
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 20:24:43 GMT
It's not about volume it's about effortlessness. And the bigger the speaker the less loud you have to play it to get that 'presence' going on. Absolutely this... Never experienced that from a big conventional speaker. Only the opposite. I remember DSJR saying that ATC SCM50s only came to life when played loud and that’s been my experience of. large speakers. Big speakers played loud in a small room isn’t something I’d want. The sound really seems to collapse if it’s played quieter from a big speaker. Just my nexperience and I’m not sure if we are simply hearing different things or talking about different results. |
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Post by savvypaul on Apr 15, 2019 20:26:14 GMT
Other biggies out of that list were: Cambridge R50.....OK actually, but not as responsive as I usually need. Isobariks (semi omni) Glastonbury’s (horn) Apogee Centaur (Ribbon hybrid) Neat Petite/Gravitas..... Intersting, this one because it’s a capable small speaker tirmed into an isobaric big one.....and IMO utter shite. My mates have tried a few biggies in their average sized rooms and not one has sounded any good to me. Worst of all we’re Martin Logan hybrids and those Tannoys. Big and efficient are what you need. Get the LaScalas. You know you want to... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 20:30:26 GMT
I’d love La Scalas and big horns seem to work for me. They don’t have the same drawbacks as big conventional speakers for me. Horns seem to drive a room differently. They always seem to have a presence and they grow in sound and scale in a different way. Big conventional boxes have never worked for me......so far.
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Post by savvypaul on Apr 15, 2019 20:45:25 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 20:54:24 GMT
If only they were cheaper. That’s a helluva lot but the condition is outstanding for La Scalas. One of the best pairs I’ve seen. If anyone is starts a system from scratch they could get a TPA3116 amp and a pair of these! |
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Post by macca on Apr 15, 2019 20:55:25 GMT
Never experienced that from a big conventional speaker. Only the opposite. I remember DSJR saying that ATC SCM50s only came to life when played loud and that’s been my experience of. large speakers. Big speakers played loud in a small room isn’t something I’d want. The sound really seems to collapse if it’s played quieter from a big speaker. Just my nexperience and I’m not sure if we are simply hearing different things or talking about different results. DSJR is right about ATC but they are designed like that for pro use and they are inefficient. Whereas a big Tannoy or JBL -or a Klipsh I imagine as I've not heard a big one - are all high efficiency and all have presence at low volume. There not as accurate as ATC, that's your trade off. As for the Cheviots sounding rubbish it could be the cabs or the drivers or both. It's a lottery with old Tannoys. I've heard them sounding both rubbish and excellent. If they were brand new out the showroom they would have sounded at least quite impressive so I can't imagine they were. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 21:04:53 GMT
Ap2’s are nice mid sized speakers. I’ve heard them sound good in a small room (uni digs) at a range of volumes
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 15, 2019 21:16:02 GMT
The only shared experience Macca and I have are his old Akais. I was trying to reflect on them to see if there was anything I could learn about our different experiences. They seemed pretty efficient and didn’t suffer the sluggishness I dislike. Maybe big and efficient would work for me. I do love the spaciousness of semi omnis though and I’m not sure I can live without it,
I’m pretty sure the Penaudios will sound too small, unless they completely defy their size in some way I’ve not experienced before, They remind m of ProAc Tablettes size-wise, and they were one of my hifi mistakes. Mind you, I’ve concluded that I don’t like any Proacs so maybe I’m being a bit unfair.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2019 21:52:27 GMT
Another small speaker that defy their size is the Acoustic Energy AE1. They pack plenty of punch.
S.
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