Shaman of AoS visits Bigman80!

Regarding RIAA, you need to look at old 'Choice' reviews before digital took over. The phono stage was the main input then and the deviation from true flat is remarkable in so many cases.

The Croft RIAA should be +/- 0.25db over most of the range apart from the 20k region, which I *believe* depends on the test gear loading. I don't know what Nick G uses to measure his stuff, but of todays techies, I think I'd trust him more than anyone as he seems to know what the gear is and what it needs to 'measure' it properly. I have to add slightly huffily (sorry) that feeding ANY lf squarewave into a phono stage is going to show a tilted result - it's called RIAA equalisation and can't possibly be flat, unless what was fed into said phono stage was pre equalised accordingly. Kind of makes me realise why test measurements should only be done by qualified people who know what they're doing and who are able to patiently explain to the rest of us what the eff they mean

I mentioned the Linn Lk1 as a potentially dirt cheap MC phono stage - the RIAA errior is shown here - www.stereophile.com/content/linn-LK1-preamplifier-amp-lk280-power-amplifier-measurements -1db at 25hz (a bit severe perhaps) and -1db at 30kHz, which is quite acceptable, to me anyway...

Just checking Oli.
I wouldn't be comfortable saying that the bass on a phonostage was 'wrong' unless I had the numbers to hand to back it up. In such a case I'd stick to impressions of the sound. +/- 0.5db, either way, isn't an issue for me, moving my head a few inches either side makes way more difference than that.

That you find so many phonostages bass heavy leads me to think there's something up with the balance or RT60 of your room and set-up. They just don't vary that much these days IME.

Yup, fair point BUT what's happens when the same "impression" of sound performance happens in the different systems, in different houses?

Wouldn't RT60 have that effect on everything inside? The room doesn't change so why would some bits sound so difference?



My room is very sensitive to bass, I know this and have done a fair bit to try and calm it down and have mentioned it elsewhere frequently. There isn't a great deal I can do about it currently but as I said, the ones on the list that I have commented on were measured and verified.

Apologies that i didn't get printouts or screen shots but at the time it seemed pretty normal that two phonostage sounded different and the interest was in WHY, rather than collection of evidence for future reference.

I'm no scientist or electronics guru, I'm just someone who got these things measured and began to notice when something didn't sound "right" to my ears.

What anyone makes of my findings or opinion is ok. I don't need validation as they are all in my past now and won't be going back again.

yes, was just pointing out that noise, distortion, mono bass etc , means the vinyl version is quite a distance from the master tape even before you get to dodgy RIAA performance.

You're okay with 78s they were from before RIAA was invented 

Maybe I've been unlucky then because every time I've heard one of those wind-up things with 78s it really has been the worse sound ever.

Yes I agree it is possible to coax more out of modern vinyl, I've read about at least one specialist place where they cut the bass in stereo right the way down. But the vast majority of stuff you are going to play is mono below 100Hz. Not necessarily a bad thing because it gives the bass a bit more 'presence'. Which is something a lot of people remark on when comparing digital and vinyl.

Plus 100Hz is pretty low, a lot of bass is way above that so your ears are not deceiving you. Plus the lower the frequency the more difficult it is for us to tell where it is coming from.


Most of vinyl's shortcomings actually translate out as subjective advantages, and the rest don't really matter that much (or at all) in terms of enjoying the music.

Hell I was about 4 years old, pop would not let me near his radiogram, he did however give me all his Annie Get Your Gun 78's to play with and the wind up.
Who cared what it sounded like at 4 years old, remember it was 1954.

Not always, lived in Northern Rhodesia on the copper belt 15 miles from the Congo border as the crow flies, as a kid 2 till 13 years old, had a great childhood, every day in the bush with my pals and the dogs. Was there when the Congo blew up remember the UN being there and all the white refugees making a dash for it. Dag Hammarskjold's plane went down two towns away from us.  We Left a year after independence and moved to Cape Town, we had to my pop was one to lift his hands. If you even looked at a local the wrong way then you had 24 hours to get out, and had to leave empty handed. I did High School in Cape Town, my national service in Kimberley, and served my apprenticeship in Cape Town.
Got itchy feet and set off for Durban and worked there for two years. Got the wonder lust again and found a job in Salisbury Rhodesia, I refuse to use the new names. That country was a paradise, so I would much prefer to live in the past memories. The war was still on this was the late 70's. exciting times. I up and left when that swine Mugabe took charge something about him repulsed me, and was I right. Moved to Johannesburg because that is where all the jobs are. I was born in Johannesburg. Been in Johannesburg since 1980, now retired, worked in print. I am just hoping I can hold out to my death before the country goes the way of; now I can say it Zimbabwe.
Robbing South Africa blind they are, on and on it goes.

Africa is totally unique, nobody understands it. I am afraid I am now going to be totally politically incorrect. The people in general, that is the black people have no sense of real national identity, they put tribe before country, they put their own good before society. They are deeply superstitious, they have absolutely no sense of personal responsibility. These are the main things holding them back, not racism and the slavery inflicted on them in the past.

They have to learn to stand on their own feet; will it ever happen, will they ever stop fighting and killing who knows. All aid to Africa must cease it does no good it never goes where it supposed to go.

Africans have to tough it out just like every other society had to in making a better life for all.
They are far from stupid believe you me, they just have to learn.

The place gets in your blood it is tough if you can survive in Africa you will survive anywhere. The people when left undisturbed by politics are great, they are friendly helpful with a sense of humor second to none. If your car happens to break down here it is always a black man that stops to help, the white women especially the young ones flash rude signs at you, and the white men curse you.

Understand it never, love it for ever, it gets in your blood I call my self a white African. I have every right to, I can trace ancestors that first came here back to the 18th Century on my dads side, and on my moms to the early 19th Century. So yes I am African this is my home. Do I like what is happening no. But it is all our own fault for not allowing the black people to go it alone. Some still come up to me with cupped hands and bow their heads when addressing me. It makes me so angry, I always say please you think it might be respectful to me, I do not want that, I want you to respect yourself first, then I can fully respect you, I do not care who you think are, you are a man just like me, and there is a light in their eyes, sometimes they get it.

I have some South African and Rhodesian (I won't use the new name either) friends and they all say pretty much the same as Lemos.


Whilst the right-on virtue-signalling crowd hold sway you'll never get any progress. Remember the film 'The Wild Geese'? Primarily an action film but the underlying message was that things in Africa were never going to improve until white and black Africans started to recognise their common interests and work together to realise them. Of course the point was missed entirely and the film was condemned as 'racist' by the knee-jerk idiots.