Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 27, 2019 22:04:01 GMT
I’m back to this old chestnut once again.My room has a suspended wood floor with thick carpet and underlay. As ever, it’s a PITA to try and push spikes through. They also damage both carpet and floor. Most to the time they still wobble around.
I’ve previously driven Philips head screws through and sat the spikes in them. I can’t bring myself to do it on a brand new carpet and I’m also using different speakers which require different positioning, so it’s a non starter. Concrete bases etc look Sh#t and would damage the pile, so they are out too. Again, I’d be moving them and leaving imprints,
I see no workable solution so I’m hoping someone else may do. Any ideas?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 27, 2019 22:27:02 GMT
I’m back to this old chestnut once again.My room has a suspended wood floor with thick carpet and underlay. As ever, it’s a PITA to try and push spikes through. They also damage both carpet and floor. Most to the time they still wobble around. I’ve previously driven Philips head screws through and sat the spikes in them. I can’t bring myself to do it on a brand new carpet and I’m also using different speakers which require different positioning, so it’s a non starter. Concrete bases etc look Sh#t and would damage the pile, so they are out too. Again, I’d be moving them and leaving imprints, I see no workable solution so I’m hoping someone else may do. Any ideas? I should’ve added that my experience is that a speaker and stand fixed so that they can’t move at all will really improve my enjoyment. It’s like bringing focus to a camera image. Therefore I’d really like to crack this one.
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Post by nonuffin on Jan 27, 2019 22:48:37 GMT
I have some solid Oak blocks 45 x 35cm and 40mm thick that are ideal for putting stands on thick carpet you can have for a small fee. They are heavy mind so postage won't be cheap.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 27, 2019 23:15:41 GMT
Thanks for that, I will check my measurements tomorrow. My stands are 3 point jobs with a large-ish footprint. Oak would be more acceptable than slabs and less likely to squash the pile. I’ll also try to visualise what it will look like. The speakers are in a very prominent neat spot, so it all needs to look right as well as work. I like carpeted floors for comfort, but they really are hassle in so many ways. Suspended wood floors are not something I like,but they are a reality in most U.K. homes.
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Post by antonio on Jan 28, 2019 6:19:55 GMT
Am I correct in thinking they are three legged stands and if so they still wobble?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 28, 2019 19:12:16 GMT
Yes that’s right. I’ve measure the footprint and I’m unable to take dvh up on his kind offer. I’m looking for a cheaper alternative to the sorts of isolation feet Iso Acoustics and Duevel sell. I think decoupling is my only option.
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Post by macca on Jan 28, 2019 20:33:09 GMT
A couple of granite or oak chopping boards per side? Only about a tenner each.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 29, 2019 6:10:16 GMT
I’ve thought about that one but I’m not sure I could live with the looks. Heavier materials would probably squash the carpet pile and leave a mark?
These dats I want my system to look good, sound the way I like and give me no hassles. Isolation feet shouldn’t cost hundreds. Hopefully I can find a Chinese knock off. Some bouncy feet from Douk Audio look interesting but I’m really looking for the ball bearing type or even mag lev.
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Post by macca on Jan 29, 2019 8:05:22 GMT
You can restore the pile of the carpet afterwards by dampening it with a little water and then letting it dry out.
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Post by nonuffin on Jan 29, 2019 8:20:55 GMT
I’ve thought about that one but I’m not sure I could live with the looks. Heavier materials would probably squash the carpet pile and leave a mark? These dats I want my system to look good, sound the way I like and give me no hassles. Isolation feet shouldn’t cost hundreds. Hopefully I can find a Chinese knock off. Some bouncy feet from Douk Audio look interesting but I’m really looking for the ball bearing type or even mag lev. Solidair Audio produce a magnetic bridge which I reviewed a while back and they are really good sounding. link
Not sure though how they would behave on bare carpet as I used them on bamboo plinths on top of my thick-ish carpeting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 8:28:57 GMT
I was given a design for "roller feet" but couldn't find a company that would make a set cheap enough.
Might just have to go for the old spike to cup type
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 29, 2019 21:06:29 GMT
I’ve thought about that one but I’m not sure I could live with the looks. Heavier materials would probably squash the carpet pile and leave a mark? These dats I want my system to look good, sound the way I like and give me no hassles. Isolation feet shouldn’t cost hundreds. Hopefully I can find a Chinese knock off. Some bouncy feet from Douk Audio look interesting but I’m really looking for the ball bearing type or even mag lev. Solidair Audio produce a magnetic bridge which I reviewed a while back and they are really good sounding. linkNot sure though how they would behave on bare carpet as I used them on bamboo plinths on top of my thick-ish carpeting. That’s the sort of thing I’m after but it’s at least 4x what I’m willing to pay. I want sub £100 for isolating a pair of speakers. I need 6 feet and I think a tenner each is where I’d really like to be, although I’d go a bit higher if need be. Douk audio isolating feet are £29 for 4 and are as well made as many others, if they can do it and make a profit, so can others. Maybe I should be looking to design some nd getting a few made up.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 30, 2019 4:35:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 9:49:19 GMT
I have a solid floor, with thick underlay and carpet. My stands (Rega Ela Mk 1 - three point) used to wobble, so the following may be applicable:
Drill three holes on base of large (18" x 14" x 1 1/2" in my case) slab of stone. Araldite long spikes in to the holes.
The mass of the slab pushes the spikes through the weave of the carpet backing and through the underlay. Results in flat stone base to place speaker on to. Slab "floats"/is supported above the carpet, so no damage to pile. I have moved the bases several times, small holes left by spikes disappear after a quick vacuum.
Noticeable loss of bass vibrations in cabinet - I could feel them quite easily before making the stand. I guess that vibrations are now being grounded to flood.
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Post by antonio on Jul 15, 2019 9:56:25 GMT
Are you using these Westie, since I've recently purchased a set, although still waiting delivery. Forgot your post, I ordered them after reading Jandl's thread on AoS.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 15, 2019 9:58:45 GMT
Are you using these Westie, since I've recently purchased a set, although still waiting delivery. Forgot your post, I ordered them after reading Jandl's thread on AoS. Bought two boxes, looked them over and didn’t like them, so I sold them on, I’m afraid.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 15, 2019 10:00:05 GMT
I have a solid floor, with thick underlay and carpet. My stands (Rega Ela Mk 1 - three point) used to wobble, so the following may be applicable: Drill three holes on base of large (18" x 14" x 1 1/2" in my case) slab of stone. Araldite long spikes in to the holes. The mass of the slab pushes the spikes through the weave of the carpet backing and through the underlay. Results in flat stone base to place speaker on to. Slab "floats"/is supported above the carpet, so no damage to pile. I have moved the bases several times, small holes left by spikes disappear after a quick vacuum. Noticeable loss of bass vibrations in cabinet - I could feel them quite easily before making the stand. I guess that vibrations are now being grounded to flood. Hi Guy. Nice to have another Ela fan on board. I still adore them.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 15, 2019 17:28:14 GMT
I have a solid floor, with thick underlay and carpet. My stands (Rega Ela Mk 1 - three point) used to wobble, so the following may be applicable: Drill three holes on base of large (18" x 14" x 1 1/2" in my case) slab of stone. Araldite long spikes in to the holes. The mass of the slab pushes the spikes through the weave of the carpet backing and through the underlay. Results in flat stone base to place speaker on to. Slab "floats"/is supported above the carpet, so no damage to pile. I have moved the bases several times, small holes left by spikes disappear after a quick vacuum. Noticeable loss of bass vibrations in cabinet - I could feel them quite easily before making the stand. I guess that vibrations are now being grounded to flood. Good lord, the Ela spikes were something to behold as well, VERY long and 'pointy' and even these wouldn't go through the carpet and underlay?
I'd like to do this for the current downstairs boomers, but I need to pull them out to listen and push them back when finished, so not really practical here sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 21:38:58 GMT
Hi Dave,
you are right, the Rega spikes are long - just not enough mass on top of them to keep the speakers stable when there was carpet between them and the floor! Not sure how to post pictures, will have a look later.
I was just fiddling about; local stonemason let me have a look in his waste skip for some worktop offcuts (£10 as far as I can remember) and it progressed from there. Very satisfying end result.
I have wondered about putting some mass on top of the cabinets, but I don't want to spoil the look of them.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 16, 2019 4:35:19 GMT
Hi Dave, you are right, the Rega spikes are long - just not enough mass on top of them to keep the speakers stable when there was carpet between them and the floor! Not sure how to post pictures, will have a look later. I was just fiddling about; local stonemason let me have a look in his waste skip for some worktop offcuts (£10 as far as I can remember) and it progressed from there. Very satisfying end result. I have wondered about putting some mass on top of the cabinets, but I don't want to spoil the look of them. Any chance you could mass load the bottom instead. I’m thinking of a steel or lead plate fixed to the bottom ad then the T stand fixed to that?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 13:10:56 GMT
Thanks for the idea. I did try similar several years ago with lead shot in the T frame at the base, I can't remember exactly why now but it was a relief when I removed the shot (it just didn't sound right/"comfortable"?). Perhaps a plate at the base would work better, although quite happy now as the Elas are quite stable on the flat stone (unlike when placed on carpet).
(I also tried out removing the T frame and blutacking the speaker to the stone base, but that just confused/"muddied" the sound).
Glad you also like the Ela - I worry about what to do when they finally "give up the ghost', although all is looking and sounding good at the moment. (I currently have a pair of NVA cube 3's breaking in in the dining room system - they are definitely improving through use in terms of tone).
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 16, 2019 15:24:45 GMT
Thanks for the idea. I did try similar several years ago with lead shot in the T frame at the base, I can't remember exactly why now but it was a relief when I removed the shot (it just didn't sound right/"comfortable"?). Perhaps a plate at the base would work better, although quite happy now as the Elas are quite stable on the flat stone (unlike when placed on carpet). (I also tried out removing the T frame and blutacking the speaker to the stone base, but that just confused/"muddied" the sound). Glad you also like the Ela - I worry about what to do when they finally "give up the ghost', although all is looking and sounding good at the moment. (I currently have a pair of NVA cube 3's breaking in in the dining room system - they are definitely improving through use in terms of tone). The three point stand makes sense on paper, but boy are they easy to topple. I think it’s the small footprint. The later Elas had a four point stand but were nowhere near as musical. The Rega driver was rubbish compared to the Royd one. I only sold my Elas because I was going abroad. Otherwise I’d have kept them. My wife loved what they do and I must admit to loving them too. Best I’ve ever heard them was with the Xerxes and a KSA50. The bass had a whole other dimension.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 16, 2019 15:48:16 GMT
The ELA's definitely got much worse at the end, but the mid period ones with still black fronts and veneered sides and top were perfectly ok to us. The last ones with 'stained' cherry-red finish all over the fronts were horrible, the SSSSSScan tweeter sounding acidic by this time and really spiteful if anything (no Kudos or PMC's with a spiced hf region ever sounded like thisssssss).
We also had the Royd version (I forget its name, but it was similar size) and in no way was the midrange as good as the original ELA was - much more of a colouration on vocals I recall.
By this time, we were selling Jura's and we had a nice way of taming the low bass of the mk1 version as well a system (vinyl and digital) which suited these well - bi-amping was amazing with these). ELA2's were absolutely delightful on simple rock, chamber music and folk, but couldn't rock and roll to save their by now elegant lives sadly. I was told that the loading on ELA's all but removes bass below 80Hz or so as the port output goes out of phase and cancels everything below this frequency. In the dem room (15' x 11') it was fine, but at home, all I could hear was the tweeter - same with Gale 301's I wanted to like. My ES14's really were in a different plane of existence and looking back and had I not gone the ATC route, I could still live with them again I think, although herself hates stands like theirs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 15:58:45 GMT
I was told that the loading on ELA's all but removes bass below 80Hz or so as the port output goes out of phase and cancels everything below this frequency. That seems about right. I have a pair of empty Ela boxes here that I've been playing around with trying various spare drivers. The cabinets have a tuned internal resonator cavity that takes up just over half the box volume and it just cuts off output as you say around 80Hz.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 16, 2019 16:04:52 GMT
The boxes were made as a 'rectangle' and then sliced from one corner to the other after I gathered from Roy G at the time. The internal partitioning did make for a sturdy carcass I think.
To give an idea of margins Rega were working on (I worked it as approx 400%), ELA's cost Rega £73 to make (not sure if that included shipping to dealers though), trade to us was around £280 and retail inc VAT was £429 or so at the time... Rega's dealer margins weren't high then and still aren't today I gather. I suspect you can double the 1990-ish prices today.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 16, 2019 18:51:24 GMT
The ELA's definitely got much worse at the end, but the mid period ones with still black fronts and veneered sides and top were perfectly ok to us. The last ones with 'stained' cherry-red finish all over the fronts were horrible, the SSSSSScan tweeter sounding acidic by this time and really spiteful if anything (no Kudos or PMC's with a spiced hf region ever sounded like thisssssss).
We also had the Royd version (I forget its name, but it was similar size) and in no way was the midrange as good as the original ELA was - much more of a colouration on vocals I recall.
By this time, we were selling Jura's and we had a nice way of taming the low bass of the mk1 version as well a system (vinyl and digital) which suited these well - bi-amping was amazing with these). ELA2's were absolutely delightful on simple rock, chamber music and folk, but couldn't rock and roll to save their by now elegant lives sadly. I was told that the loading on ELA's all but removes bass below 80Hz or so as the port output goes out of phase and cancels everything below this frequency. In the dem room (15' x 11') it was fine, but at home, all I could hear was the tweeter - same with Gale 301's I wanted to like. My ES14's really were in a different plane of existence and looking back and had I not gone the ATC route, I could still live with them again I think, although herself hates stands like theirs. I always wanted to try Royd Apex, just to satisfy my curiosity. From what you say, I’d have wasted my time. I will probably pick up a pair of Elas locally for the bedroom system. I’m currently using my DIY cubettes and I have a pair of Petite 3 sat waiting for a spin, but I have an emotional attachment to Elas that probably makes them inevitable. Or I could go for another pair of Kans lol. 48 and counting......... only kidding
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Post by dsjr on Jul 16, 2019 19:00:57 GMT
Maybe I'm being too harsh, but we had both and compared them directly and sold more ELA's. Your views may well differ, but Rega did a good job in the early days with what they had imo.
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