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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 14:13:07 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 5, 2018 14:13:07 GMT
Loving valve amps as you do, I bet you could live happily long term with a mid-level perspex wonder A bit more power than the charming baby models, more subtle contrasts available but not ott...
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Oct 5, 2018 14:53:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 14:53:09 GMT
Loving valve amps as you do, I bet you could live happily long term with a mid-level perspex wonder A bit more power than the charming baby models, more subtle contrasts available but not ott... I know the English translation to that S.
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Bigman80
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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 17:36:45 GMT
Post by Bigman80 on Oct 5, 2018 17:36:45 GMT
Tupperware?
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Oct 5, 2018 17:38:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 17:38:51 GMT
C#nt chops........you aint heard the humble el34.
300B's............😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😂😂
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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 17:40:42 GMT
Post by alit on Oct 5, 2018 17:40:42 GMT
Lol not at all, OTL aside I could quite happily live with a set of Nick’s P6’s. They are one of the few exceptions in a ocean of solid-state mediocrity though. Although it is my considered opinion that most valve amps are crap too. Yep no argument from me on that. One of the reasons I like the P6’s is that they sound like the best of what valves can do along with the good bits of SS.
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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 17:45:28 GMT
Post by alit on Oct 5, 2018 17:45:28 GMT
Loving valve amps as you do, I bet you could live happily long term with a mid-level perspex wonder A bit more power than the charming baby models, more subtle contrasts available but not ott... That meant for me? I have the 300 quid NVA package. No arguing with the VFM, but even the OTL I have now blows it out of the water. The Pinnacle will jump up and down on it as well.
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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 18:14:22 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 5, 2018 18:14:22 GMT
How much would the OTL cost if put it into production? The croft had beggar all in it but would be around £2k now I reckon (it was £900 I seem to remember back in '91). By 'perspex,' I could have been talking about DNM you know... That used perspex casework before NVA began if memory serves... The power amp traded most bass power and weight for solid-core high frequencies and midrange clarity.
F#ck it - I LIKE bass power and weight as long as it doesn't boom like most larger BBC derivatives do.
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OTL
Oct 5, 2018 19:20:53 GMT
Post by alit on Oct 5, 2018 19:20:53 GMT
Dunno. The kit is $1699, plus the cost of valves (8 300b's!)
I like bass too, the OTL I have here now does better and deeper bass than my SM 70 Pro, which is around the same price I think.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 8:21:51 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 6, 2018 8:21:51 GMT
Kinda makes the P20/A20 with cables look a bit of a bargain though at £300 (I took a cut so the cables could be included at the time).
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Bigman80
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Oct 6, 2018 8:31:58 GMT
Post by Bigman80 on Oct 6, 2018 8:31:58 GMT
Nobody is denying the value of the baby nva, but it doesn’t need to be mentioned in every thread. It just looks like some incongruous product placement.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 8:36:48 GMT
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Post by alit on Oct 6, 2018 8:36:48 GMT
Oh yes I agree, don’t think you could get a better sound buying new elsewhere at the asking. Prices I gave above are for the Pinnacle. The Mini Beast is $850 without valves. Bit of a bargain IMO, if you have suitable speakers, given the SQ on offer. You do need to be able to build it though, or know someone who can. www.transcendentsound.com/mini-beast.html
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 11:10:38 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 6, 2018 11:10:38 GMT
Nobody is denying the value of the baby nva, but it doesn’t need to be mentioned in every thread. It just looks like some incongruous product placement. Is it mentioned in every thread? i thought I was being good hardly mentioning this brand unless it was properly relevant...
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 14:33:07 GMT
Post by macca on Oct 6, 2018 14:33:07 GMT
Nobody is denying the value of the baby nva, but it doesn’t need to be mentioned in every thread. It just looks like some incongruous product placement. Is it mentioned in every thread? i thought I was being good hardly mentioning this brand unless it was properly relevant... Mentioning is one thing, recommending it is another unless someone has asked for recommendations. Recommending it outside of any relevant context come across as a bit pushy.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 14:50:59 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 6, 2018 14:50:59 GMT
I wasn't recommending it, just suggesting that it's a low powered amp, similar in available output level to a smaller OTL and being pretty simple, it may just lack the grain and sonic 'clutter' of more complex amps and might even be slightly better in the bass, despite the small supply. Obviously it doesn't, so I enquired the price to be told the OTL kit was well over a grand, so no comparison really...
Oh FFS.... I can't even *mention* these effin things here now for want of someone yelling 'FUCKING SHILL' at me. Nobody (least of all me) complains about westie's repeated love-ins with his Sonneteer stuff - see, we WANT this latter brand to get more exposure online to interested parties can look them out and listen for themselves.
I promise not to mention the dreaded three latter word if I can possibly help it. You lot don't know me at all and if you did, you'd see that shilling this or any other brand, let alone my dealer pal, doesn't come into it where I'm concerned. I just like talking about the gear I love - and some I don't and the Aspergic tendencies may well exaggerate that enthusiasm or criticism, although I shouldn't need to defend my opinions like this, not after all these years around and about the forums.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:02:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 15:02:58 GMT
I wasn't recommending it, just suggesting that it's a low powered amp, similar in available output level to a smaller OTL and being pretty simple, it may just lack the grain and sonic 'clutter' of more complex amps and might even be slightly better in the bass, despite the small supply. Obviously it doesn't, so I enquired the price to be told the OTL kit was well over a grand, so no comparison really... Oh FFS.... I can't even *mention* these effin things here now for want of someone yelling 'FUCKING SHILL' at me. Nobody (least of all me) complains about westie's repeated love-ins with his Sonneteer stuff - see, we WANT this latter brand to get more exposure online to interested parties can look them out and listen for themselves. I promise not to mention the dreaded three latter word if I can possibly help it. You lot don't know me at all and if you did, you'd see that shilling this or any other brand, let alone my dealer pal, doesn't come into it where I'm concerned. I just like talking about the gear I love - and some I don't and the Aspergic tendencies may well exaggerate that enthusiasm or criticism, although I shouldn't need to defend my opinions like this, not after all these years around and about the forums. But Westie doesn't build Sonneteer's products though! Bare that in mind. S.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 15:18:15 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 6, 2018 15:18:15 GMT
Shane, I hardly make anything these days and never the big power amp stuff other than a very few AP50's two or three years back, sadly for me. 'Boy Friday' has all but taken over production it seems which is good for himself but not for me, although any issues can be dealt with as they arise in manufacture and not weeks or even months after the event.
I accept your comment though, even if I don't see it that way...
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Oct 6, 2018 15:44:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 15:44:31 GMT
Shane, I hardly make anything these days and never the big power amp stuff other than a very few AP50's two or three years back, sadly for me. 'Boy Friday' has all but taken over production it seems which is good for himself but not for me, although any issues can be dealt with as they arise in manufacture and not weeks or even months after the event.
I accept your comment though, even if I don't see it that way...
Nothing wrong with talking about a brand who makes gear you enjoy. I have raved about the Firebottle stuff because of the quality of sound Vs price. I'll also mention that in a certain area of the forum world, I was lambasted for it. If your recent experience is all NVA based then that's what you will talk about. It's natural and I don't see you as shilling, just enthusiastic about the products on offer by a specific manufacturer.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 15:57:50 GMT
Post by macca on Oct 6, 2018 15:57:50 GMT
Personally I find I am uncomfortable recommending or even mentioning products where my connection is anything beyond being an ordinary punter. I might genuinely feel they are excellent but even if it is just a simple case of it is a friend who is making them then it gets hard. Of course mates want to help each other out if they can, but that in itself can be considered a 'conflict of interest.' (Shilling is far to extreme a term IMO).
The way I see it if the products are good then happy punters who have no connection to the maker beyond being customers will be recommending them anyway.
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OTL
Oct 6, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 6, 2018 16:13:23 GMT
I have plenty of experience with other gear, not just the one brand and I still feel it competes fairly with conventional retail products via a dealer. I could rave about the seven grand Luxman integrated but i doubt people here would want to know, despite this thing out-performing any naim at almost any price... I don't know the current Linn amps since 2004 but they're well spoken of (but apparently not the speakers). When I can get over to Saffron Walden for the day, I'll hear the top Prima Luna amp which many Harbeth owners abroad love so much, despite the terrible response measurements into proper speaker loads as reported by Stereophile. Macca and Biggie - as I said earlier, you only know my forum presence and not the man behind the keyboard, who tries not to be too different I admit. I genuinely didn't think my mentioning NVA with any enthusiasm would be classed as 'awkward' due to my very tenuous connection now and 'himself' has come to terms with the fact I speak freely as I can from personal experiences most often and not as a blinkered 'disciple.' I've never ever said they're the best amps out there regardless, as I know other brands that are also excellent but at a rather higher price... I do apologise for ruffling some feathers, I seriously can't help it sometimes. My current workroom amp in 'duty cycle' is the HH VX300. I bet most of you would slaughter it if you heard it, but the sub 20Hz built-in filtering and lively 'mosfet' delivery is fine for the old IMF's I use. It was designed for 24/7 operation and while I have it, I'll give it some gentle use every so often to keep it alive
TWENTY QUID? It can't be working surely and the transformer if working is worth far more than that... It's heavy too and the plastic fins over and under the front panel extension were available not long ago...
Apologies for thread drift, but one more. To give a sense of perspective, this transformer is huge by the ones I usually work with (it's 450VA I think) and a third the height of the one on macca's Krell. Balanced inputs are converted to single end on the board at the socket bank unlike macca's amp which goes straight to a balanced amp circuit from in to out.
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Oct 6, 2018 17:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 17:47:05 GMT
I have plenty of experience with other gear, not just the one brand and I still feel it competes fairly with conventional retail products via a dealer. I could rave about the seven grand Luxman integrated but i doubt people here would want to know, despite this thing out-performing any naim at almost any price... I don't know the current Linn amps since 2004 but they're well spoken of (but apparently not the speakers). When I can get over to Saffron Walden for the day, I'll hear the top Prima Luna amp which many Harbeth owners abroad love so much, despite the terrible response measurements into proper speaker loads as reported by Stereophile. Macca and Biggie - as I said earlier, you only know my forum presence and not the man behind the keyboard, who tries not to be too different I admit. I genuinely didn't think my mentioning NVA with any enthusiasm would be classed as 'awkward' due to my very tenuous connection now and 'himself' has come to terms with the fact I speak freely as I can from personal experiences most often and not as a blinkered 'disciple.' I've never ever said they're the best amps out there regardless, as I know other brands that are also excellent but at a rather higher price... I do apologise for ruffling some feathers, I seriously can't help it sometimes. My current workroom amp in 'duty cycle' is the HH VX300. I bet most of you would slaughter it if you heard it, but the sub 20Hz built-in filtering and lively 'mosfet' delivery is fine for the old IMF's I use. It was designed for 24/7 operation and while I have it, I'll give it some gentle use every so often to keep it alive
TWENTY QUID? It can't be working surely and the transformer if working is worth far more than that... It's heavy too and the plastic fins over and under the front panel extension were available not long ago...
Apologies for thread drift, but one more. To give a sense of perspective, this transformer is huge by the ones I usually work with (it's 450VA I think) and a third the height of the one on macca's Krell. Balanced inputs are converted to single end on the board at the socket bank unlike macca's amp which goes straight to a balanced amp circuit from in to out.
I was just offering a bit of support, Dave. I don't mind you referring to NVA or refering to your thoughts on how they stand in the marketplace. I like that this forum has the freedom to talk about whatever brand we like. None of us "Know" each other mate.
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Bigman80
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Oct 6, 2018 18:52:54 GMT
Post by Bigman80 on Oct 6, 2018 18:52:54 GMT
To clarify, it’s fine to have a bit of promotion here, so even if Dave does make a bit from NVA amp building it’s not an issue. In fact, good luck to him. He takes pride in it and he does a great job as far as any pic I’ve seen shows. I don’t think that’s why he keeps raising them anyway. My point was that the mention of them in a thread about OTL amps was glaringly out of place. It just looked weird. It really did remind me of that Wayne’s World scene.
Folk can have a look at my references to Sonneteer. I guarantee nobody will find me recommending their kit for folk here to,purchase, especially in threads about something else entirely. As far as I’m aware, I only really mention them in the context of my own system and any purchases I make to compare them with. I would never think of popping up on a thread about an OTL kit amp, Krell Class A or bespoke Radford Revival and tell the OP he should be buying a Campion instead.
Nobody’s stopping anyone from mentioning anything here, least of all me. I got sick of all this shilling accusation bollocks ages ago. I will leave that to the nutters out there. Those NVA starter amps do keep popping up in threads about something completely different though, so I’m bound to do a bit of ribbing when they do. I was going to post a clip of Calum Gilhooley going on about his Suzuki 350 but I thought it was too obscure for anyone but me!
Dammit I can’t resist! One of my fave characters ever!
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OTL
Oct 7, 2018 8:26:05 GMT
Post by dsjr on Oct 7, 2018 8:26:05 GMT
By solid state standards, i just thought the NVA circuit had a tiny bit in common with the OTL concepts as I understand them - you take bits out until it stops working and then that's your circuit, just at the point of not working and the signal path of the OTL I had couldn't have been more direct or simpler - one valve feeding another and straight to the output stage with hardly anything across the signal path to ground I recall (I didn't take pics sadly and should have done). I do appreciate it's not quite the same with solid state, as you can't do solid state in audio quite as well I gather if you don't have transistor pairs (cascode) for best matching to the following stage and so on (I need help here) and let's face it, there aren't any other cheap amps out there with a hope in hell of the KISS concept as they're either breathless chip amps of one sort or another, or sonically hobbled in some way - not all amps sound any good with small supplies - look at most Naits for example..
I'm sorry I even mentioned it now - I had no idea it would continually irritate people here. I don't make stuff so I keep 'all' the profits to be fair, but then I'm lucky not to have a huge monthly mortgage as many do.
Maybe Ali could start a new thread with some of his (valve?) amp projects listed and described if it's not too much trouble including the OTL build shown here? This thread could also then be cleaned or have my off-topic crap diverted rather than deleted.
I for one would like to see the innards of many 'different' amp projects, from Biggies Pass-derived preamp to Ali's OTL project. I know 'Audio talk'' is there for this purpose, but on a simpler level, I think it would be great to share here please...
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Oct 7, 2018 9:08:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 9:08:16 GMT
Happy to share the innards of the DCB1 preamp. I will be building a Turbo version with a new board which is currently being stuffed with bling (😉) by a mate of mine in Brighton.
I'll start a thread when it lands here.
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OTL
Oct 7, 2018 9:26:06 GMT
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Post by alit on Oct 7, 2018 9:26:06 GMT
I’ll post up a build thread when I get the kit.
I put one up on AOS of the Mini Beast build, it no doubt the pics will have gone. I’ll see if I’ve still got them on my laptop.
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OTL
Oct 7, 2018 9:33:58 GMT
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Post by alit on Oct 7, 2018 9:33:58 GMT
Found this one from a thread on AT- wiring nearing completion on the Mini Beast-
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Oct 7, 2018 11:50:08 GMT
Post by Bigman80 on Oct 7, 2018 11:50:08 GMT
Found this one from a thread on AT- wiring nearing completion on the Mini Beast- Seeing something like that always tempts me because physically it’s basic enough for me to solder and build. The rider is that I would be “painting by numbers” and by all accounts, an OTL is the last thing anyone without any electronics knowledge should be messing with, due to the voltages concerned.
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OTL
Oct 7, 2018 13:45:27 GMT
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Post by alit on Oct 7, 2018 13:45:27 GMT
It’s true that voltages are higher in valve amps so this needs to be borne in mind if you’re considering building one.
Bruce’s instructions are very clear and comprehensive though, I’d say most who can solder could build one of his amps.
Alternatively, send it to me and I’ll put it together for you. :-)
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Oct 7, 2018 16:00:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 16:00:46 GMT
Found this one from a thread on AT- wiring nearing completion on the Mini Beast- Not a crocodile clip in sight. Whats going on ?
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OTL
Oct 7, 2018 16:39:36 GMT
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Post by alit on Oct 7, 2018 16:39:36 GMT
Lol, and it’s in a box.
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Bigman80
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Oct 11, 2018 7:59:47 GMT
Post by Bigman80 on Oct 11, 2018 7:59:47 GMT
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