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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 4, 2024 15:55:32 GMT
I am moving away from a PC based front end, to a dedicated server with internal storage. I have had suggested a Zen MK3 and at a much greater price, the Hi Fi Rose RS130. IF, IF I go for a ZEN, it will leave me scope to buy a new or pre loved Rockna DAC... Any thoughts, I prefer the uncomplicated Zen
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Post by markn on Nov 4, 2024 16:06:10 GMT
Hello Peter. I would have thought an Innuos Zen MK3 would be a good choice. You can rip CDs easily (I think) and it also supports various streaming services. Partnered with a good DAC like a Rockna, I would expect that to be a very good front end. Apparently, the Innuos Sense App is really excellent as well. I don't think I have ever heard anybody who has owned or used an Innuos server say anything but complimentary things about it. Will you buy the Zen MK3 new, or is there a used or ex-dem unit available? Good luck with your search.
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 4, 2024 16:28:44 GMT
rokna is a great brand . what has made you choose that ?
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Post by lurch on Nov 4, 2024 20:02:09 GMT
I've been running a 1tB ZENith mk3 for 2 years now into a maxed out Black Ice DSD via a Chord Epic USB and it sounds superb, the Sense App is pretty slick & intuitive aswell.
When I made the change in 2022 I was running a fully tricked out Node2 with SBooster/Ultra, Mutec & external master clock, the bare ZENith walked all over it.
Unless things have changed Zen & Zen mini run HDDs whilst the ZENith is SSD storage, the power supplies also get better the higher up the range you go.
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Post by lurch on Nov 4, 2024 20:08:30 GMT
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 5, 2024 10:55:01 GMT
rokna is a great brand . what has made you choose that ? I saw it mentioned in a post on a dac page on FB, so did some research into it and asked a few questions |
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 5, 2024 11:08:24 GMT
Thanks for that, but I have had a lot of bad luck buying things pre loved over the years, so much so, I am at the stage of my life now where I always buy new to get the warranty, saying that, my 11 month old PS Dac/Pre developed a fault, and I had to spend £300 getting it fixed (new main board). I am not saying that the one for sale may go wrong, its just me not wanting to take a risk. |
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Post by bencat on Nov 5, 2024 11:43:01 GMT
I think most users of the Innous year are very happy the sound quality they offer is very good and hard to beat . One thing I would offer as advice is get the largest memory hd you can afford as things till up much quicker than you think . So minimum should be 2TB but would suggest 4TB as future proof .
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 5, 2024 12:44:50 GMT
Thanks for that, but I have had a lot of bad luck buying things pre loved over the years, so much so, I am at the stage of my life now where I always buy new to get the warranty, saying that, my 11 month old PS Dac/Pre developed a fault, and I had to spend £300 getting it fixed (new main board). I am not saying that the one for sale may go wrong, its just me not wanting to take a risk. agreed , i like the reassurance of a warrenty |
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 5, 2024 16:39:36 GMT
I think most users of the Innous year are very happy the sound quality they offer is very good and hard to beat . One thing I would offer as advice is get the largest memory hd you can afford as things till up much quicker than you think . So minimum should be 2TB but would suggest 4TB as future proof . Yes, was thinking about that earlier, prob go for 4TB. One thing that has kind of kept me awake is think is a HHD modern enough, just as my PC has a Samsung 2TB SSD in and its very fast, its only for flac files, so probably reading to much into it (as I tend to do) |
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Post by bencat on Nov 5, 2024 16:44:30 GMT
Any SSD being used solely as storage for a music server is going to be as fast as will ever be needed . Sorting and delivering FLAC files for replay is not too hard on CPU or HD so you will not ever need anything faster .
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 5, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
I think most users of the Innous year are very happy the sound quality they offer is very good and hard to beat . One thing I would offer as advice is get the largest memory hd you can afford as things till up much quicker than you think . So minimum should be 2TB but would suggest 4TB as future proof . Yes, was thinking about that earlier, prob go for 4TB. One thing that has kind of kept me awake is think is a HHD modern enough, just as my PC has a Samsung 2TB SSD in and its very fast, its only for flac files, so probably reading to much into it (as I tend to do) Tony previously pointed out to me that an SSD requires less power than an HDD which tends to translate to lower noise in the server-player. In my limited experience that has proved out, resulting in lower noise floor. I don't think speed as really at issue. When speed is an issue is if the software has trouble managing a large library database. |
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 5, 2024 21:37:36 GMT
Yes, was thinking about that earlier, prob go for 4TB. One thing that has kind of kept me awake is think is a HHD modern enough, just as my PC has a Samsung 2TB SSD in and its very fast, its only for flac files, so probably reading to much into it (as I tend to do) Tony previously pointed out to me that an SSD requires less power than an HDD which tends to translate to lower noise in the server-player. In my limited experience that has proved out, resulting in lower noise floor. I don't think speed as really at issue. When speed is an issue is if the software has trouble managing a large library database. But I was thinking of saving 2K, the hhd is a lot cheaper, for a better sound? With a higher end hi fi than what mine is, not sure |
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Post by lurch on Nov 6, 2024 6:59:36 GMT
Another option is to rip to a NAS via your PC and get the Innuos Pulse or Pulsar.
As for SSD vs HDD, the SSD equipped ZENith has a much better power supply than the Zen and SSDs also tend to be quieter (electricly) which again improves SQ.
My own concern with HDD equipped devices is the fact they are mechanical (the read heads) so have a built in potential failure element, so will have a finite life.
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 6, 2024 8:56:05 GMT
As for SSD vs HDD, the SSD equipped ZENith has a much better power supply than the Zen and SSDs also tend to be quieter (electricly) which again improves SQ. My own concern with HDD equipped devices is the fact they are mechanical (the read heads) so have a built in potential failure element, so will have a finite life. this is my concern also, but HHD's have been used for years with no problems and SSD is a relative newcomer. IF, and its a big if, things go t*** up, it has a warranty, and will prob be upgrading it in a few years (3), plus I have a few backups of all my music files. As to sound, is the Zenith really 2K better in the short term, as any differences will soon be forgotten after a couple of months of playing its sibling |
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Post by misterc on Nov 6, 2024 10:38:42 GMT
I have been using Samsung SSD's for over 10 years, failure rate I have experinaced under 00.5% and we fit around 30 a month I would suggest Evo 870's its costs very little compared to when I first used them. It's is mechaniscall and electrically quieter no question. Back up's just a usb C <> sata and an off board 4Tb drive, do this once a month and thats it simple.
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 6, 2024 16:17:27 GMT
I have been using Samsung SSD's for over 10 years, failure rate I have experinaced under 00.5% and we fit around 30 a month I would suggest Evo 870's its costs very little compared to when I first used them. It's is mechaniscall and electrically quieter no question. Back up's just a usb C <> sata and an off board 4Tb drive, do this once a month and thats it simple. my back ups are kept on a 2TB Synology NAS and a portable Seagate Portable Drive, 2TB, External Hard Drive. But just have a small collection of files compared to you Tony  |
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Post by misterc on Nov 6, 2024 17:08:18 GMT
These are the number of drives we fit months to new streaming devices Pete, all my music os on Enterprise drives, save the 10 or so SSD I keep for slotting in demo units.
I haven't used a NAS for (audio) for maybe a decade significant drop in SQ, I believe Bruce may be able to shed some light on this as well.
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 6, 2024 17:12:28 GMT
I have been using Samsung SSD's for over 10 years, failure rate I have experinaced under 00.5% and we fit around 30 a month I would suggest Evo 870's its costs very little compared to when I first used them. It's is mechaniscall and electrically quieter no question. Back up's just a usb C <> sata and an off board 4Tb drive, do this once a month and thats it simple. my wife still uses a samsung laptop , its used a huge amount of time and must be well over 10 years old!!! outlasted everything else |
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 6, 2024 18:05:27 GMT
These are the number of drives we fit months to new streaming devices Pete, all my music os on Enterprise drives, save the 10 or so SSD I keep for slotting in demo units. I haven't used a NAS for (audio) for maybe a decade significant drop in SQ, I believe Bruce may be able to shed some light on this as well. Most NAS back in the day were electrically rather noisy jobs with also electrically noisy power bricks. Perhaps there are more audiophile friendly designs these days and could be put with clean power, but I don't know. If the NAS is plugged in to a different house circuit than then HiFi, that will help limit noise ingress, but noise seems to use the ethernet cable to get from one network device to another. It doesn't matter if it doesn't effect the data. It still moves to the overall circuit of the other device which raises the noise floor. Ethernet fibre can help with this, but people have mixed results sonically (re: power supplies at each end, colouration of the sound by the fibre media).
Even if using a basic computer as your network storage, the extra computer, the extra switch, and their power supplies all add to the noise floor unless a lot of attention is paid to cleaning up with power to and within the devices. You can get there it's just a matter of attention, complexity, and money.
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Post by misterc on Nov 6, 2024 19:24:21 GMT
That pesky noise gets everywhere, one of the best sounds I have ever heard was froma Flash nand SD card lol, through a small buffered memory player, ultra low noise small form factor player, into a dac via aes, absolutely breath taking, the rather special six figure turntable was made to feel a bit ordinary. As with all things in audio, paying carefull attention to ALL noise ingress will pay quality dividends no question imho.
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 12, 2024 10:53:28 GMT
I have spoken to the Innuos UK distributor (via FB), as has my dealer, when arranging a Zen to home demo. The distributor, Niall said he has sent both the Zen and the ZENith, my dilemma is to listen to them both side by side, and decide wether to go for the cheaper one (by 2K and has the HHD) leaving enough in the budget for decent power and a quality USB cable, or go for the budget busting (just) Zenith, with its SSD and just use the supplied power lead and use a basic USB. I make a rod for my own back in making decisions
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Post by lurch on Nov 12, 2024 13:25:25 GMT
For a sensibly priced but excellent usb cable grab a Supra Excalibur, for mains if you feel the need for 'better' but with a sensible price tag you won't go far wrong with a Puritan Classic/Classic+.
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Post by hifinutt on Nov 12, 2024 14:31:12 GMT
decent power cables are easy to come by , just put one in classifieds
get the zenith or as lurch says a puritan cable
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 13, 2024 8:33:59 GMT
I take on board all the answers given. I know it can only be my own decision, its just I do not want to make a 2K difference, mistake, and regretting my decision. I am torn between old technology and relatively new tech. Sound wise I will just rip my favourite tune and compare the 2 side by side
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