Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2018 20:39:32 GMT
Macca: Didn’t you have an XTZ that could be switched from class A to AB? Just wondering what you heard on that occasion? So far I have heard nothing consistent that I would call a “Class A” sound. I have heard a few amps that claimed to be Class A and there were no common traits at all. As an illustration the KSA50 was a knockout artist whilst the Kelvin Labs monoblocks were more Tai Chi practitioners. The Bedini 100/100 was Theresa May and the MF A1 was more Boris Johnson. Daft analogies maybe, but it kinda highlights the different characters of just 4 Class A amps. I'm mentioning the Asgard 2 because it's claimed to be Class A. Through good headphones. Did you find the Asgard to sound opposite of the stereotypical warm Class A sound? S. A mate had one and really rated it. Sadly he tinkered and wrecked it so I never got to hear it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 20:50:34 GMT
I'm mentioning the Asgard 2 because it's claimed to be Class A. Through good headphones. Did you find the Asgard to sound opposite of the stereotypical warm Class A sound? S. A mate had one and really rated it. Sadly he tinkered and wrecked it so I never got to hear it. Right... That doesn't answer my question. S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2018 20:52:07 GMT
Macca: Didn’t you have an XTZ that could be switched from class A to AB? Just wondering what you heard on that occasion? So far I have heard nothing consistent that I would call a “Class A” sound. I have heard a few amps that claimed to be Class A and there were no common traits at all. As an illustration the KSA50 was a knockout artist whilst the Kelvin Labs monoblocks were more Tai Chi practitioners. The Bedini 100/100 was Theresa May and the MF A1 was more Boris Johnson. Daft analogies maybe, but it kinda highlights the different characters of just 4 Class A amps. I'm mentioning the Asgard 2 because it's claimed to be Class A. Through good headphones. Did you find the Asgard to sound opposite of the stereotypical warm Class A sound? S. You’ve actually made me realise one common trait I have heard across Class A products. They need to get warm tocome on song, The Asgard was a prime example. It was brittle to start with but after 20minutes it sweetened just enough to be accurate. I’d say it was as nest to neutral as you’d find, Mine had a sad end. I sold it and posted it in it’s manufacturers packing, Royal mail had it in their possession about 16 hours and destroyed it. The impact it sustained was enough to separate the transformer from the board and dent a corner. If you’d seen the packing you’d know the corner couldn’t be dented because the foam was too large and absorbent. A look at the box showed a sharp object had been rammed through, I filed a claim and Royal Mail gave me an almighty runaround before making a partial compensation offer. I had to threaten them with the Small Claims court to get a payout. The amp was destroyed in April and I banked the cheque today. The moral of this story: Don't use Royal Mail. They actually received 4 items on that same aftrnoon in April. They damaged 3 and lost/stole the fourth. I only used them because the courier (DX) had failed to show 3 consecutive days. Never ever again. Sorry for thread drift. I just wanted to share just how Sh#t Royal Mail are.
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Post by alit on Sept 5, 2018 9:23:28 GMT
Don’t see how that’s possible mate, you’d need huge heatsinks for that much power. Here's the Hifiengine info: "Power output: 200 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 600W into 8Ω (mono) Frequency response: 5Hz to 100kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.01% Damping factor: 130 Input sensitivity: 1.2V Signal to noise ratio: 120dB Dimensions: 452 x 428 x 195mm Weight: 16.5kg Year: 1984" It's not a small amplifier by any stretch. I'm not saying you are wrong mate, far from it, just that I can only quote what's been written elsewhere. From the Vintage Knob A504 (Z504 in Europe) 95,000¥ Duo-Beta power amplifier. Meant as monoblock but usable as stereo amp as well ; two Heat-Pipes. 1x 600W (Class AB), 1x 60W (Class A) 2x 200W (Class AB), 2x 60W (Class A) It doesn't really matter anyway because whatever it was at the Bakeoff was excellent. It's in for a tough test (as are the others) against the Monarchy and the Krell when I get it. Yes agreed, doesn’t matter, it’s how it sounds that counts. Moot for me anyway, for my ears OTL amps beat anything else I’ve tried. Using a Transcendent Sound Mini Beast at he moment, but I intend to buy the Pinnacle kit (300b OTL monos) in the near future. Heard a diy version of the original single ended design of this amp at a previous Owston which blew me away, never heard treble like it before or since. This is no longer offered by TS, but there is now a higher powered PP version giving a mighty 6 watts lol. The SE was about 1.5W. The mini beast I have now is 4w, does better and deeper bass than my SM 70 SS amp. Obviously suitable speakers are needed with these, but the low power outputs are not obvious when you hear the speed and slam amps like this are capable of.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:16:04 GMT
Here's the Hifiengine info: "Power output: 200 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 600W into 8Ω (mono) Frequency response: 5Hz to 100kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.01% Damping factor: 130 Input sensitivity: 1.2V Signal to noise ratio: 120dB Dimensions: 452 x 428 x 195mm Weight: 16.5kg Year: 1984" It's not a small amplifier by any stretch. I'm not saying you are wrong mate, far from it, just that I can only quote what's been written elsewhere. From the Vintage Knob A504 (Z504 in Europe) 95,000¥ Duo-Beta power amplifier. Meant as monoblock but usable as stereo amp as well ; two Heat-Pipes. 1x 600W (Class AB), 1x 60W (Class A) 2x 200W (Class AB), 2x 60W (Class A) It doesn't really matter anyway because whatever it was at the Bakeoff was excellent. It's in for a tough test (as are the others) against the Monarchy and the Krell when I get it. Yes agreed, doesn’t matter, it’s how it sounds that counts. Moot for me anyway, for my ears OTL amps beat anything else I’ve tried. Using a Transcendent Sound Mini Beast at he moment, but I intend to buy the Pinnacle kit (300b OTL monos) in the near future. Heard a diy version of the original single ended design of this amp at a previous Owston which blew me away, never heard treble like it before or since. This is no longer offered by TS, but there is now a higher powered PP version giving a mighty 6 watts lol. The SE was about 1.5W. The mini beast I have now is 4w, does better and deeper bass than my SM 70 SS amp. Obviously suitable speakers are needed with these, but the low power outputs are not obvious when you hear the speed and slam amps like this are capable of. I've not heard of those, Ali, I'll have a butchers.
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Post by alit on Sept 5, 2018 12:42:13 GMT
The site is worth a look, Bruce’s kit is great VFM imo, even taking into account customs charges.
Will probably be tempted by the Masterpiece pre further down the line too..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 17:56:36 GMT
Having had the Z504 in the system for a few days, i can confirm i am convinced enough of its potential performance to have sold the Monarchy Audio SM-70. This is a cracking Amp, its vibrant and insightful. It's forward sounding and has excellent pace. It really rocks. SQ is quite superb too. There is detail and scale, almost at Krell size but not quite. The amp is very transparent and yes, i have tried directly connecting to the amp and avoided using a preamp. I didn't notice much, if any difference with it in circuit if i am honest. Very pleased that the DCB1 is as transparent as it is. That was something id wanted to try and i can confirm the DCB1 is excellent. Decay and reverb are easily audible and in comparisons with the SM-70, i found myself reinstalling the Z504 and leaving it in. Both are excellent but the Z504 sounds bigger and i like it a lot. It wasn't immune from damage on the way across Europe. A corner brace was broken of and a little split in the side panel probably caused by a drop of some kind. a bit of gluing and clamping and its right as rain. The fella in Denmark was an absolute pleasure to deal with. Just goes to show that HiFi and its enthusiasts are a great bunch. Mostly. Obviously, having the Krell at the same time has made things even more interesting. This amp arrived in Class A/B and hopefully in a few days will be Class A. I don't know if there is any value in doing it but i don't want to be left wondering. Also it's fairly easy to just swap it back so no harm trying. Overall, i paid a smidgin under £500 for this beast after the charges for IBAN and conversion rates. I really feel this amp is a stone cold bargain. If i didn't know better, id suggest the Japanese know what they are doing!! I'll stick a few pics on when i get a minute.
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Post by macca on Sept 18, 2018 18:06:20 GMT
It's a massively good amp for the money but I think I said to you before that at Penkridge I thought the KSA 50S was obviously better, albeit it cost twice the money the Lux cost you. Maybe the 'Class A' <ahem> conversion will make up the difference, I don't know.
I'd guess not because with your speakers and room I bet you are never using more than a couple of watts except on momentary peaks where you won't notice anyway. So it's already operating in class A. My bet is you'll stick with the Krell.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 18:20:32 GMT
It's a massively good amp for the money but I think I said to you before that at Penkridge I thought the KSA 50S was obviously better, albeit it cost twice the money the Lux cost you. Maybe the 'Class A' <ahem> conversion will make up the difference, I don't know. I'd guess not because with your speakers and room I bet you are never using more than a couple of watts except on momentary peaks where you won't notice anyway. So it's already operating in class A. My bet is you'll stick with the Krell. Sitting here currently listening to some Duke Ellington and John Coltrane and the Krell is a different beast altogether. It's organic. The performance has strands of life rather than replication. It's difficult to try and describe but I think you might be right Macca, the Krell is sitting here singing BUT I have Sh#t cables on the Z504 so I need to see what it can do with a proper pair of cables before I settle into a definite decision.
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Post by macca on Sept 18, 2018 19:08:43 GMT
Oh yeah take your time. I'll usually spend a couple of months evaluating something. Listen to maybe 40, 50 albums on it, all sorts of different stuff. Although with time I've learned to narrow it down a bit more. All the stuff we played at mine with the DB1 was picked to show up flaws in certain places, if they existed. I'm guessing most people have a similar process. Well, most box swappers anyway.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2018 19:10:56 GMT
Just savour having this multiple amp experience. I’ve had a few in my time and they are usually both insightful and precious to look back upon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 22:16:39 GMT
Oh yeah take your time. I'll usually spend a couple of months evaluating something. Listen to maybe 40, 50 albums on it, all sorts of different stuff. Although with time I've learned to narrow it down a bit more. All the stuff we played at mine with the DB1 was picked to show up flaws in certain places, if they existed. I'm guessing most people have a similar process. Well, most box swappers anyway. Yes mate, I definitely have some go to tracks to reveal what's missing, or not, as the case may be. Sometimes, like now with these top quality monsters, I end up just trying to decide which one I enjoy more as the test tracks are being handled easily. Presentation seems to be the biggest difference with the Krell noticeably creating a atmospheric performance that really has a human touch. The Z504 hasn't been back in yet to see how it handled "Eric Clapton-Unplugged" Tomorrow will reveal more.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 22:18:39 GMT
Just savour having this multiple amp experience. I’ve had a few in my time and they are usually both insightful and precious to look back upon. I am mate, it's a rarity to have so much quality at ones disposal!! I feel my heart is leading me toward the Krell but like I say, I need to give the Z504 a fair crack with decent cables. I will do this tomorrow. I imagine I will be sure by the weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 22:03:05 GMT
Copied from AoS........
After a week of pure amplifier magic, I just couldn't whittle the last two down (Krell v Lux) to anything other than the enjoyment factor.
The Luxman-Luxkit is a real deal amplifier. It's right up there with the best I've heard. Clarity and focus is superb and yes, it has scale. Not quite as big sounding as the Krell but it's a great performance.
I spent hours listening to this. I wanted to keep it. I really like it's looks. It's a SS amp that doesn't let you know it. Bass is excellent. Deep but taut. Again the Krell gets a bit deeper but let's be honest, it should. It was twice the price!!
What I love about the Luxman-Luxkit is how it's unassuming. Nobody would look at it and expect it to be anywhere near as good as it is. Yet let it warm up, put anything on and blam! It shakes you awake.
Rock, classical, acoustic, anything. It does it all. The only issue I have with it, is the Krell. Today I played a track by Albert King. I can't remember the name at the minute. At the end of the song, there is a part he sings which is very delicate. I heard it through the Krell and it got me, right in the feels. I was stunned. It was a moment of realisation that the Krell was the one. I tried in vain to get the Luxman-Luxkit to replicate it but it didn't. That was that.
I believe that the Lux would benefit from the move into its Class A mode but I'm not sure how much different it would be. It's capable of putting a coat hanger in your grill and making you smile from ear to ear uncontrollably. It's just that organic sound of the Krell which tips the scales for me.
The Krell has taken my heart. I can't deny it. The sound from the big lump of 80's muscle is exactly what I wanted. I'm sad because I know how rare the Luxman-Luxkit is but I can't deny it, I keep putting the Krell back in.
The Krell puts meat on the bone. Makes it a living breathing person on the mic and I've never experienced a more organic performance here. I described the Krells I'd heard as being effortless but the better description is natural. To me, in my house, in my system, the Krell is King.
I've had a rollercoaster of a ride between these two amps. It's nip and tuck but I just knew it was time to accept the Krell as my new amp. The Luxman-Luxkit is already sold and will be off to Ireland very soon.
If you see one, I would snap it up.
Well, this really has been fun but I'm glad it's over. The Krell is far too heavy to keep lumping around 😉
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 20, 2018 2:18:04 GMT
You’ve done what so many people never do: Walked the walk and tried the things they only talk about. In a short time you’ve gained more experience of special kit than many will ever do.
Most importantly, you’ve not sold an item to try an item. IMO that’s always folly because you can’t compare. Then you have to convince yourself the new kit is better because you’re stuck with it.
Even if you don’t have the money to keep both items, stick it on a card. If you make your choice within a few weeks it won’t even cost you a penny. Shoot outs where you own all the items are the best way to decide anything. They are also the makings of the best forum reading and also the greatest memories you will look back upon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 11:01:22 GMT
You’ve done what so many people never do: Walked the walk and tried the things they only talk about. In a short time you’ve gained more experience of special kit than many will ever do. Most importantly, you’ve not sold an item to try an item. IMO that’s always folly because you can’t compare. Then you have to convince yourself the new kit is better because you’re stuck with it. Even if you don’t have the money to keep both items, stick it on a card. If you make your choice within a few weeks it won’t even cost you a penny. Shoot outs where you own all the items are the best way to decide anything. They are also the makings of the best forum reading and also the greatest memories you will look back upon. Yes I totally agree. I've really enjoyed having all the amps to try and been under no pressure to make a decision. I've just picked my favourite out of the group and I'm happy. Experience is priceless. It's how you get to where you want to go and this has been good on many levels. I've been using crap cables and finally got back to my usual SPOTFIRE stuff yesterday and it's great to be back. Little things like that start to be taken for granted but I really noticed when they weren't in. The Sommer cables I used over the last day or so we're better than I remembered and that's great too. Before those I was using cheap ass coaxial wire. Silver plated horrible stuff.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 21, 2018 9:14:48 GMT
I saw the pics on AoS. It was a really nice example. If I wasn’t settled I’d have been very tempted to give it a spin. Hopefully it will find a home with its new owner.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 16:42:50 GMT
I saw the pics on AoS. It was a really nice example. If I wasn’t settled I’d have been very tempted to give it a spin. Hopefully it will find a home with its new owner. I am sure it will mate. The delay got in touch as soon as I bought it. He'd been looking for one and then I imported this unit. He was straight on it lol. Fingers crossed he likes it and it sticks. I really like this amp.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 21, 2018 17:21:17 GMT
I think it’s great when you can bring something)g into the country and then it goes to an enthusiast. I did that with my first Aragon. Wish I’d hung onto one of them longer. Same goes for the Adcom tbh. I never really took the time to get e good enough preamp fir either.
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