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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 21:42:51 GMT
Hi all,
I have just bought one of these. I heard one at the Penkridge bakeoff and thought it was excellent.
I've not paid much to be fair so I'm quite happy with the amount of amplifier for the money. Just waiting now for its arrival from Denmark!!!!!
Opinions welcome.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 2, 2018 23:03:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 5:18:00 GMT
Could be! If it gets near to the Monarchy Audio SM-70, I'll be impressed. |
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Post by antonio on Sept 3, 2018 13:00:06 GMT
I'll assume the Krell is on the back burner for now. Hope you enjoy your new purchase.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:06:31 GMT
Barking up the wrong tree lads...
Ive owned a pair of Monarchy Audio SM70 PRO MONO POWER AMPS...(HIFI+ PRODUCT OF THE YEAR MY ARSE)
SAD TO SAY MY NVA A70s piss all over them.....IN EVERY DEPT.
DISCUSS.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:57:55 GMT
I'll assume the Krell is on the back burner for now. Hope you enjoy your new purchase. No, the Krell is coming as well. Decided to buy both of the amps and see which I like best at home. Seems sensible. I'll just sell on the bits I don't want at the end. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:01:03 GMT
Barking up the wrong tree lads... Ive owned a pair of Monarchy Audio SM70 PRO MONO POWER AMPS...(HIFI+ PRODUCT OF THE YEAR MY ARSE) SAD TO SAY MY NVA A70s piss all over them.....IN EVERY DEPT. DISCUSS. SM-70PRO'S are a different animal to the SM-70 I am using. There is no pissing all over the SM-70. Seriously, I don't care what amp it is, the SM-70 IS outstanding. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 15:04:13 GMT
Barking up the wrong tree lads... Ive owned a pair of Monarchy Audio SM70 PRO MONO POWER AMPS...(HIFI+ PRODUCT OF THE YEAR MY ARSE) SAD TO SAY MY NVA A70s piss all over them.....IN EVERY DEPT. DISCUSS. SM-70PRO'S are a different animal to the SM-70 I am using. There is no pissing all over the SM-70. Seriously, I don't care what amp it is, the SM-70 IS outstanding. There’s a distinction there I hadn’t realised. Mind you, I think the NVA circuit is a very good sounding base for an amp. If I was a better DIYer I would be sorely tempted to buy something like a used A20 and use the boards for a big pair of monoblocks, I’m only surprised many others haven’t done this. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 15:08:40 GMT
The Luxkit stuff is meant to be a DIYer’s/ tweakers paradise. Firstly I think it will be good from the off. Secondly I think you will be able to take it further without much risk just by following advice from others who have trodden this path, Thirs, I reckon you will probably bring your one experience and ears to the party and get something even better. It sounds right up your street.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 16:10:27 GMT
SM-70PRO'S are a different animal to the SM-70 I am using. There is no pissing all over the SM-70. Seriously, I don't care what amp it is, the SM-70 IS outstanding. There’s a distinction there I hadn’t realised. Mind you, I think the NVA circuit is a very good sounding base for an amp. If I was a better DIYer I would be sorely tempted to buy something like a used A20 and use the boards for a big pair of monoblocks, I’m only surprised many others haven’t done this. I haven't had any exposure to NVA amplification so won't comment but there may be a chance I could hear some in the near future. Yes, the SM-70 Got a bit of a steroid injection and the SM-70PRO was created. Designed for people who wanted to leave them on all day. The sound from them is actually very good but not in the same realm as the original SM-70. Later models also became Class A for a few watts then A/B so the early examples are the ones to go for. No amplifier I have ever heard, pisses on the SM-70. Not a single one. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 17:12:28 GMT
The Luxkit stuff is meant to be a DIYer’s/ tweakers paradise. Firstly I think it will be good from the off. Secondly I think you will be able to take it further without much risk just by following advice from others who have trodden this path, Thirs, I reckon you will probably bring your one experience and ears to the party and get something even better. It sounds right up your street. The "Avance" series was built by a Factory in Belgium, under instruction of Luxman as they didn't trust the UK to understand the Japanese build instructions. They are tweakable and I will have it tweaked for 60w of Class A, with the selector switch removed and also the voltage from the mains has optional wiring for 100v, 220v and 240v. |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 7:20:02 GMT
There’s a distinction there I hadn’t realised. Mind you, I think the NVA circuit is a very good sounding base for an amp. If I was a better DIYer I would be sorely tempted to buy something like a used A20 and use the boards for a big pair of monoblocks, I’m only surprised many others haven’t done this. I haven't had any exposure to NVA amplification so won't comment but there may be a chance I could hear some in the near future. We can do a Krell / NVA / Monarchy bake-off on Thursday if you like?
I'm interested to see if the Monarchy can match the Krell KSA50S. I already know the Luxman is not quite as good, although it isn't night and day by any means. For what you paid it's a bargain, I can see why you couldn't resist.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 7:33:23 GMT
Barking up the wrong tree lads... Ive owned a pair of Monarchy Audio SM70 PRO MONO POWER AMPS...(HIFI+ PRODUCT OF THE YEAR MY ARSE) SAD TO SAY MY NVA A70s piss all over them.....IN EVERY DEPT. DISCUSS. SM-70PRO'S are a different animal to the SM-70 I am using. There is no pissing all over the SM-70. Seriously, I don't care what amp it is, the SM-70 IS outstanding. That is correct. The SM-70 has a purity that the Pro does not achieve. |
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Post by alit on Sept 4, 2018 9:46:13 GMT
The Luxkit stuff is meant to be a DIYer’s/ tweakers paradise. Firstly I think it will be good from the off. Secondly I think you will be able to take it further without much risk just by following advice from others who have trodden this path, Thirs, I reckon you will probably bring your one experience and ears to the party and get something even better. It sounds right up your street. The "Avance" series was built by a Factory in Belgium, under instruction of Luxman as they didn't trust the UK to understand the Japanese build instructions. They are tweakable and I will have it tweaked for 60w of Class A, with the selector switch removed and also the voltage from the mains has optional wiring for 100v, 220v and 240v. Can’t be 60w class A with the size of those heat sinks surely? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 10:55:16 GMT
I haven't had any exposure to NVA amplification so won't comment but there may be a chance I could hear some in the near future. We can do a Krell / NVA / Monarchy bake-off on Thursday if you like?
I'm interested to see if the Monarchy can match the Krell KSA50S. I already know the Luxman is not quite as good, although it isn't night and day by any means. For what you paid it's a bargain, I can see why you couldn't resist.
I'll bring the Monarchy!!! When we spoke about the Krell v Lux from the Bakeoff, you quite rightly said the SQ dipped, but if I am not mistaken, the speakers also changed? The Urei's were the biggest downward dip from the JMlabs if my memory serves me right. That's why I couldn't resist mate. I'm off to get the Krell KSA100 on the 12/9/18 so I will be able to do a proper test at mine and although it's a different model, research does suggest the KSA100 is thought of as "The" Krell to get at that price . |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 11:12:36 GMT
The speakers did change but we did have a listen to both amplifiers through both sets of speakers. The speaker cables also changed at one point.
I thought regardless of which amp or speakers were in use the sound quality was beyond any reasonable criticism and certainly better than almost anything I've heard at a dealers or a show. In particular that direct to disc classical recording was shockingly good.
So arguing the toss is pretty academic really. You could spend a lot more money and get something that was nothing like as good, and that does happen. A lot.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 11:16:15 GMT
The speakers did change but we did have a listen to both amplifiers through both sets of speakers. The speaker cables also changed at one point. I thought regardless of which amp or speakers were in use the sound quality was beyond any reasonable criticism and certainly better than almost anything I've heard at a dealers or a show. In particular that direct to disc classical recording was shockingly good. So arguing the toss is pretty academic really. You could spend a lot more money and get something that was nothing like as good, and that does happen. A lot. I absolutely agree mate. Both amps were far above almost anything I've I've heard. Only the Longdog in disguise (MF) I heard would possibly compare. Let's do the bakeoff at yours and see how we get on. Can't go wrong with either as you said. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 11:18:21 GMT
The "Avance" series was built by a Factory in Belgium, under instruction of Luxman as they didn't trust the UK to understand the Japanese build instructions. They are tweakable and I will have it tweaked for 60w of Class A, with the selector switch removed and also the voltage from the mains has optional wiring for 100v, 220v and 240v. Can’t be 60w class A with the size of those heat sinks surely? The manual and all the info I can find all says 60wpc in class A. Those heatpipes must be effective |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 12:07:45 GMT
The speakers did change but we did have a listen to both amplifiers through both sets of speakers. The speaker cables also changed at one point. I thought regardless of which amp or speakers were in use the sound quality was beyond any reasonable criticism and certainly better than almost anything I've heard at a dealers or a show. In particular that direct to disc classical recording was shockingly good. So arguing the toss is pretty academic really. You could spend a lot more money and get something that was nothing like as good, and that does happen. A lot. I absolutely agree mate. Both amps were far above almost anything I've I've heard. Only the Longdog in disguise (MF) I heard would possibly compare. I've heard the Longdog P6 monoblocks (100w mosfet) in a couple of systems and they are absolutely flawless. Only drawback is they are £7.5K a pair which is way above my pay grade. Jammy could consider them, though. 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 12:16:43 GMT
I absolutely agree mate. Both amps were far above almost anything I've I've heard. Only the Longdog in disguise (MF) I heard would possibly compare. I've heard the Longdog P6 monoblocks (100w mosfet) in a couple of systems and they are absolutely flawless. Only drawback is they are £7.5K a pair which is way above my pay grade. Jammy could consider them, though.
Yes, NG certainly knows how to make HiFi equipment. Not heard anything of his I didn't like. |
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Post by alit on Sept 4, 2018 17:27:52 GMT
The manual and all the info I can find all says 60wpc in class A. Those heatpipes must be effective Don’t see how that’s possible mate, you’d need huge heatsinks for that much power. |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 17:35:50 GMT
The manual and all the info I can find all says 60wpc in class A. Those heatpipes must be effective I don't really see that it matters what class an amp is, you either like what it does or you don't. If I have a listen to an amp in my system and it doesn't do it for me I'm not going to change my mind just because someone tells me it is class A. If I like the amp I'm not going to change my mind because someone says it isn't class A. I imagine that applies to everyone else as well. Plus the definition of Class A operation seems to be quite elastic anyway. I've got an XTZ amp, switchable between 50 watts class A and 130 watts AB. HFW measured it and found it was 130 watts in class A as well. What does it actually mean? Nothing. Worse still the people who are always banging on about class A tend to be hardened subjectivists most of whom don't even understand, and don't want to understand, what it even means. Reminds me of the people selling CD players on eBay who are keen to point out it has a 'Class 1' laser as though that must be the best quality because it's number 1. Why would they care what class the amp is anyway? Isn't it all supposed to be about how it sounds not how it works? You never the see the EEs or anyone technically knowledgeable obsessing about class A because they know that what makes a good amp isn't solely determined by the topology. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 17:56:48 GMT
The manual and all the info I can find all says 60wpc in class A. Those heatpipes must be effective Don’t see how that’s possible mate, you’d need huge heatsinks for that much power. Here's the Hifiengine info: "Power output: 200 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), 600W into 8Ω (mono) Frequency response: 5Hz to 100kHz Total harmonic distortion: 0.01% Damping factor: 130 Input sensitivity: 1.2V Signal to noise ratio: 120dB Dimensions: 452 x 428 x 195mm Weight: 16.5kg Year: 1984" It's not a small amplifier by any stretch. I'm not saying you are wrong mate, far from it, just that I can only quote what's been written elsewhere. From the Vintage Knob A504 (Z504 in Europe) 95,000¥ Duo-Beta power amplifier. Meant as monoblock but usable as stereo amp as well ; two Heat-Pipes. 1x 600W (Class AB), 1x 60W (Class A) 2x 200W (Class AB), 2x 60W (Class A) It doesn't really matter anyway because whatever it was at the Bakeoff was excellent. It's in for a tough test (as are the others) against the Monarchy and the Krell when I get it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 18:27:58 GMT
Heres a bit from the Japanese archives. They should know!! A 504 can be produced by selecting the four operation modes of pure A class and AB class, stereo and monaural. The circuit configuration is a push-pull configuration at all stages, and high power is realized by adopting a triple push pull configuration at the output stage. Furthermore, by installing a duo · beta circuit that combines DC servo and an appropriate amount of NFB, excellent characteristics, advanced dynamic characteristics, and slew rate of 200 V / μsec have been achieved. A large cut core power supply transformer with a capacity of 800 VA and a block capacitor totaling up to 60,000 μF are carried in the power supply part. Also, as a heat radiation measure of the output stage, a heat pipe for large audio is installed for each channel. Parts such as film capacitors with polarity indication are adopted.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 18:39:35 GMT
The manual and all the info I can find all says 60wpc in class A. Those heatpipes must be effective I don't really see that it matters what class an amp is, you either like what it does or you don't. If I have a listen to an amp in my system and it doesn't do it for me I'm not going to change my mind just because someone tells me it is class A. If I like the amp I'm not going to change my mind because someone says it isn't class A. I imagine that applies to everyone else as well. Plus the definition of Class A operation seems to be quite elastic anyway. I've got an XTZ amp, switchable between 50 watts class A and 130 watts AB. HFW measured it and found it was 130 watts in class A as well. What does it actually mean? Nothing. Worse still the people who are always banging on about class A tend to be hardened subjectivists most of whom don't even understand, and don't want to understand, what it even means. Reminds me of the people selling CD players on eBay who are keen to point out it has a 'Class 1' laser as though that must be the best quality because it's number 1. Why would they care what class the amp is anyway? Isn't it all supposed to be about how it sounds not how it works? You never the see the EEs or anyone technically knowledgeable obsessing about class A because they know that what makes a good amp isn't solely determined by the topology. There's nothing wrong with any class of amplifier. If it works for you then there is no issue. I also don't think we are discussing that anyway, i think the discussion is down to whether it can manage to push out 60w in class A due to the design and components. The Japanese LUXMAN Archive certainly believe it does, as does TVK. Funny thing is i don't even know if its wired for Class A or AB  I'll try it in both and see if there is any difference. The measurements presented in the table above suggest there is. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2018 19:06:14 GMT
Macca: Didn’t you have an XTZ that could be switched from class A to AB? Just wondering what you heard on that occasion?
So far I have heard nothing consistent that I would call a “Class A” sound. I have heard a few amps that claimed to be Class A and there were no common traits at all. As an illustration the KSA50 was a knockout artist whilst the Kelvin Labs monoblocks were more Tai Chi practitioners. The Bedini 100/100 was Theresa May and the MF A1 was more Boris Johnson. Daft analogies maybe, but it kinda highlights the different characters of just 4 Class A amps.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 19:08:24 GMT
Shame I'm not nearer. I could have brought my Class A EL34 monos along for a bit of valve contrast. They may only be rated at 15 watts, but they kick ass. Bit like Radfords.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 19:21:04 GMT
Shame I'm not nearer. I could have brought my Class A EL34 monos along for a bit of valve contrast. They may only be rated at 15 watts, but they kick ass. Bit like Radfords. I'd like to hear those. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 20:04:03 GMT
Macca: Didn’t you have an XTZ that could be switched from class A to AB? Just wondering what you heard on that occasion? So far I have heard nothing consistent that I would call a “Class A” sound. I have heard a few amps that claimed to be Class A and there were no common traits at all. As an illustration the KSA50 was a knockout artist whilst the Kelvin Labs monoblocks were more Tai Chi practitioners. The Bedini 100/100 was Theresa May and the MF A1 was more Boris Johnson. Daft analogies maybe, but it kinda highlights the different characters of just 4 Class A amps. I'm mentioning the Asgard 2 because it's claimed to be Class A. Through good headphones. Did you find the Asgard to sound opposite of the stereotypical warm Class A sound? S. |
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 20:14:02 GMT
Macca: Didn’t you have an XTZ that could be switched from class A to AB? Just wondering what you heard on that occasion? Yes still got it, use it for the TV system because it has a built in DAC. In class A it seemed to lose a tiny bit of wallop, otherwise I couldn't tell any difference except the case was a lot warmer after a few hours use than it normally was. I only retired it from the main system when I got the Krell. The Krell was noticeably better but not by a huge amount, a bit tidier, a bit sweeter. It's a shame they don't make them anymore, it was only £800 brand new delivered from Sweden to my desk and the build quality is not far off the Krell. No way were they making any money on them which is I supposed why they stopped. Even the remote control is a solid chunk of metal. |
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