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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 16:23:42 GMT
I forgive you Dave, just never ever ever ever........ Mention Harbeth & NVA in the same post again. šøšøšø ... As for the second, I really like and respect the amps very much, accepting some intelligence is needed to use them to best advantage. They reproduce the music in a way I find easy and stress free.
I can easily hear and see why these two brands (I haven't mentioned together) may not 'sound' right as a pair, but not for discussion here.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 16:35:27 GMT
Jammy look away I remember when I first heard the Harbeth SHL5+ over the immediate SHL5 predecessor. I thought the 5+ sounded horrible. Bright, over damped bass and dangerously 'squitty' which is something typical BBC Boomers never emulate. Took me ages and I was disappointed, until Dave put on a Krell Vanguard he happened to have lying around Bloody hell, those things woke up, the carrot was removed from their backside and they started to sing out most enjoyably and musically. Knowing how the 5's boom here and how tight arsed the 5+ is in comparison in Dave's lively dem room, I have hopes they'll be acceptable and go louder more clearly in this room than my geriatric alternatives. I think some 'important' reviewers are maybe on some kind of ego trip.I rarely read Stereophile review subjective sections as it's mostly crap, but the measurements often tell me something, so my little brain's happy with that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 16:42:51 GMT
I think some 'important' reviewers are maybe on some kind of ego trip.I rarely read Stereophile review subjective sections as it's mostly crap, but the measurements often tell me something, so my little brain's happy with that. Whereas the measurements tell me nothing. Sometimes it's possible to work out that a reviewer is on the same wavelength as me, so I tend to like what they like, but often when I audition something, especially speakers, what I hear is nothing like the reviewer's description of the sound.
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Post by macca on Aug 13, 2018 16:48:33 GMT
You should sell them. They fetch loads and really they are not that great. the little one's anyway, not heard the big 'uns. Then you could get some proper speakers like vintage JBLs.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 17:03:48 GMT
Little Harbs can sound superb. I compared the then new P3ESR with the ATC 20 pro's I was selling and they were as good in the midrange and far sweeter and more delicate in the top. The 3ESR bass was more musical too but not as loud although I had Massive Attack Karma Coma playing well into a pair. they need a more assertive amp though I admit although modern Croft is delightful with them and they don't screech like many modern speakers do. I can't live long term with tiny boxes.
The vintage JBL's I could afford squawk and screech usually. SOME interim models are affordable and very good but I need to research more as well as listen long term to a set of 4312SE's.
By the way, a career highlight was selling a pair of new Amati Homage plus Krell FPB300 to a local chap. We tried an ARC LS25 preamp which was supremely rose tint coloured and a Naim CDS2/XPS which buzzed along to the music (the village mains was terrible). He replaced the latter bits with a Theta DAVid and not only was this silent, it sounded great too - he was looking to a top end home theatre setup eventually. The speakers were very transparent to cable and source changes, so the less impressive results a previous poster heard may well be knackered speakers, or maybe gear matching perhaps?
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Post by macca on Aug 13, 2018 18:54:03 GMT
Ah come on Dave no little speaker sounds 'superb'. Simple as that. 'Superb' requires far more than that. There were some huge Diaphason speakers at the Cranage show back in June. Beautifully clean and effortless right the way down, delicacy in spades, (almost as good as the JBL 4365, really and a lot more expensive). They were a 'superb' loudspeaker. Some rinky dink little thing with a 4 inch mid bass will never merit the accolade of 'Superb'.
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Post by antonio on Aug 14, 2018 5:24:46 GMT
Agree with that 100% Macca.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 6:48:49 GMT
My wee Falcon LS3/5A's sound superb.
ššš
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Post by antonio on Aug 14, 2018 7:06:45 GMT
To your ears maybe. Oh, and good morning Jammy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 7:16:29 GMT
My wee Falcon LS3/5A's sound superb. ššš Funny things the LS3/5a. Mostly when I've heard them, I've been unimpressed, even when trying some on my system, but now and then, I've heard them sounding quite remarkable. Last time was a set being driven by a Class D amp of some sort on the end of a computer. They sounded bloody good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 7:54:35 GMT
Morning Ant, morning campers........ I'm currently driving my LS3,s with a NVA A60 Stereo power amp..... Strange though cause I tried and expected my NVA A70 ,monos to sound better....Not the case. Anyone.... ?
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Post by macca on Aug 14, 2018 8:00:01 GMT
maybe you should ask on the NVA forum
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 8:06:48 GMT
Macca i would, but I'm banned.......And Dickys truce don't apply to poor moi I'm afraid.
Hopefully Dave may understand.
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Post by macca on Aug 14, 2018 8:15:09 GMT
I know, I was joking.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 14, 2018 8:59:56 GMT
Morning Ant, morning campers........ I'm currently driving my LS3,s with a NVA A60 Stereo power amp..... Strange though cause I tried and expected my NVA A70 ,monos to sound better....Not the case. Anyone.... ? Im not surprised. The A 80s were much worse than A40s in my system. I have no idea why. People always raise eyebrows, and worse, when I say this but the alternative would be to pretend it was otherwise in order to fit in. Thatās not me. A80s were the worst modern NVA sound Iāve had, I even preferred the AP10PX. Of course they are all exactly the same amp, just with bigger caps and more/bigger PSUs, so they should sound near identical. Maybe the A80s I had used different caps or a crap batch of transformers. Or some other component on the boards which was of a different brand which affected the sound, I dunno.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 14, 2018 9:50:16 GMT
I'd never own them, but the P3ESR's can sound very effective despite being small - for some.
I never liked 3.5A's even at the time -
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 9:55:14 GMT
I'd never own them, but the P3ESR's can sound very effective despite being small - for some. They're great for listening near-field. I doubt they'd fill a large room with sound, but I have other speakers to do that. They're also good for listening off-axis, and are unfussy about placement.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 14, 2018 10:26:33 GMT
My mate had HL-P3 ES. They were āniceāsounding and I listened for about half an hour. Itās a while back now and Iām trying to work out whether I could live with a pair. Honest answer is that I donāt know. Iād either settle into the ācomfort zoneā they provide or become irritated by their comfiness.
I think as a speaker for a second system they could be a lovely thing to own. Very pretty and clearly well made. As a main speaker, I think Iād be craving more scale.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 11:24:41 GMT
I've tried P3ESR's a couple months back. Lovely little speaker that you can listen to for long periods.
S.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 14, 2018 12:57:22 GMT
I think I have pro backup here. The Beeb designed speakers for their use and their use only, hence the slightly non-flat 5/9's and 5/8's... The 3/5A was never really intended for music monitoring, but for emphasising distortion and tape hiss in outside broadcast vans initially. This they do very well indeed, with a prominent upper mid and emphasised top (the mesh over the tweeter dome does just that I was shown by one of the original makers.
Back in '74 though, there was nothing remotely like it on the domestic market and it really did stand apart as better, as other 'small' speakers were double the size, rather coloured sounding and the Goodmans Maxim was long gone.
The one good thing about the Falcon re-imagining of this speaker is that the B110 and T27 are back in production. I get the impression the B139 may also return and as Harbeth ditched all the original tooling they took from KEF I believe, maybe the B200 as well in one form or another.
Nearly thirty years ago now,when the P3 first came out, I compared a pair at the factory with the Harbeth 3/5a, both on tall stands well out from any walls and Quad 34/306 driven via a humble full width 'plastic' Marantz CD player (CD65?). The P3 threw a huge wide and deep soundstage with the performers easily locatable within it (Decca, Peter Grimes set). The 3/5A muddled it all a bit and they weren't as clear.
The current P3ESR goes louder and rather more clearly and is a real musical sweetie, at least when Croft M25/7 driven, the two brands working well together I thought. In a smaller room I suspect the lack of real bass extension would piss me off after a while though and most BBC derived speakers go thuddy when used too close to a wall. Bloody expensive now when the current Q Acoustics at a third of the price are claimed to be in a similar ballpark (I haven't yet heard them so it's second hand hearing saying this)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 15:35:10 GMT
Only thing I can think of Andrew is the A80's have separate transformers for front end (voltage amplification) and output stage (current amplification) for each channel.
When I built my diy stuff with nva boards I tried them with one transformer and then with two and preferred the latter. Cant explain it really.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 12:38:41 GMT
I think I have pro backup here. The Beeb designed speakers for their use and their use only, hence the slightly non-flat 5/9's and 5/8's... The 3/5A was never really intended for music monitoring, but for emphasising distortion and tape hiss in outside broadcast vans initially. This they do very well indeed, with a prominent upper mid and emphasised top (the mesh over the tweeter dome does just that I was shown by one of the original makers. Back in '74 though, there was nothing remotely like it on the domestic market and it really did stand apart as better, as other 'small' speakers were double the size, rather coloured sounding and the Goodmans Maxim was long gone. The one good thing about the Falcon re-imagining of this speaker is that the B110 and T27 are back in production. I get the impression the B139 may also return and as Harbeth ditched all the original tooling they took from KEF I believe, maybe the B200 as well in one form or another. Nearly thirty years ago now,when the P3 first came out, I compared a pair at the factory with the Harbeth 3/5a, both on tall stands well out from any walls and Quad 34/306 driven via a humble full width 'plastic' Marantz CD player (CD65?). The P3 threw a huge wide and deep soundstage with the performers easily locatable within it (Decca, Peter Grimes set). The 3/5A muddled it all a bit and they weren't as clear. The current P3ESR goes louder and rather more clearly and is a real musical sweetie, at least when Croft M25/7 driven, the two brands working well together I thought. In a smaller room I suspect the lack of real bass extension would piss me off after a while though and most BBC derived speakers go thuddy when used too close to a wall. Bloody expensive now when the current Q Acoustics at a third of the price are claimed to be in a similar ballpark (I haven't yet heard them so it's second hand hearing saying this) Utter hogwash Dave ....... You endorse your reputation as a Harbeth Fanny boy. Go sell Sh#t some other place.......Or at the very least prefix with.....IMHO.
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Post by macca on Aug 24, 2018 12:49:29 GMT
Enough picking on Dave now. It's not his fault he thinks Harbeths are worth bothering with.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 13:03:10 GMT
Dave call back......macca is correct, it's not your fault Harbeth whistles oot yer arse.
You were at an impressionable age......86.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 24, 2018 13:58:46 GMT
Jammy, you bought the things blind [edit - I'm wrong - apologies]. You're on a retro kick with the Radford and all and if that floats your boat, then sail away...
How many times, I'm NOT a Harbeth fan boy. Why can't you effin read what I post?
I'm over-critical on one of the Facebook Harbeth pages and was banned from another as I don't follow the valves and vinyl bullshit many far eastern owners do.
Just 'cos none of you ever heard what I did over many years and countless dems, I obviously don't fit here or any-place else. Enjoy your delusions jammy. None of my effin' business!
Maybe westie should bin this thread as few if any of you 'get' what I try to say and jammy made it personal as well
HiFi used to be a fun thing to talk about. Last few weeks I've begun to doubt it and after following up one particular recommendation regarding long forgotten kit I thought buried and currently being caught out, I'm seriously pissed off!
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Post by antonio on Aug 24, 2018 14:12:54 GMT
Sorry Dave, I don't always get what you say then, same as Jammy, I thought you were a Harbeth fan boy.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 24, 2018 14:24:27 GMT
I know Harbeths well, yes, and hate the Sh#t that's posted against them by people who don't know them at all, let alone spent time hearing music through them as I have ever since the brand began in 1977. Dudley Harwood would be horrified though, if he saw how sanctimonious and patronising his brand has become...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 24, 2018 15:54:18 GMT
I donāt know Harbeth beyond Hl P3 ES so I cant comment on any of it really. I know Dave has been critical and received a lot of flack from those you could legitimately call fanboys. I can see why heās not happy to be lumped in with them so please give him a break. He loves his gear and has lots of great experience to share.
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Post by macca on Aug 24, 2018 17:13:06 GMT
It's only a bit of banter, I always enjoy Dave's posts and he's a right to his opinion as much as the next man. More so because he's got a lot more experience than 99% of us.
My only problem with Harbeths is that you can buy better speakers (IMO) for a lot less money. The Super HL5 Plus is Ā£3279! For a little speaker that sounds 'pleasant' and that's about it. For that kind of money you could buy pretty much any speaker you wanted on the used market.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 7:11:24 GMT
Jammy, you bought the things blind and I don't believe for one second you did any listening or comparisons to what's around these days. You're on a retro kick with the Radford and all and if that floats your boat, then sail away...
How many times, I'm NOT a Harbeth fan boy. Why can't you effin read what I post?
I'm over-critical on one of the Facebook Harbeth pages and was banned from another as I don't follow the valves and vinyl bullshit many far eastern owners do.
Just 'cos none of you ever heard what I did over many years and countless dems, I obviously don't fit here or any-place else. Enjoy your delusions jammy. None of my effin' business!
Maybe westie should bin this thread as few if any of you 'get' what I try to say and jammy made it personal as well
HiFi used to be a fun thing to talk about. Last few weeks I've begun to doubt it and after following up one particular recommendation regarding long forgotten kit I thought buried and currently being caught out, I'm seriously pissed off!
Dave, honestly calm down dear.....That's quite a post, If I may pull you up on one point though...!!! ( Jammy, you bought the things blind and I don't believe for one second you did any listening or comparisons to what's around these days. You're on a retro kick with the Radford and all and if that floats your boat, then sail away...) I told you, I've heard P3ESR, Q Acoustics, I have 8 small bookshelf / Standmounts currently at home, Royd Eden, Warfdale, DLS etc.....and I've owned too many small speakers to mention over 40 years......(Admittedly no where near as many as you) Now it's your prerogative to disbelieve me if you so wish, but your statement basically makes me out a lair publicly, and that's not very nice.... Chill oot man, we are all different, I'm sure your opinions are very valid.....But they are no less valid than anyone elses, regardless of your wealth of experience and vast knowledge. So please remove the chip from your shoulder. Wee ran't over, as you were.
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