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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 10:51:18 GMT
I know I know,reviews are Sh#t in certain UK audiophile circles and not worth reading - and nobody here is going to be in the slightest bit interested in a costly bling'd up old BBC monitor descendant...
Back to what i'm trying to say - We all know and scoff how Harbeth try to deny that 'we' hear differences in amps and how a sub £1000 Yamaha integrated (or similar powerful equivalent) is all you need - I started reading page two of this review and all but dismissed it as he was using the usual suspect low powered valve stuff including Line Magnetic, finishing off with a huge ss amp,showing firstly how lots of power benefits a speaker like this but also what it was to him with the less powered valve stuff...
Anyway, take or leave as you wish
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 11:57:45 GMT
What's your point ?
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 12:00:27 GMT
The amps he was playing and how they sounded in comparison with each other. Line Magnetic (being wanked on here and there right now), Prima Luna (the previous wankfest affordable valve amp) and so on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 12:08:20 GMT
And you Wanking and shilling Harbeth and NVA @ every fukin opportunity.
Your hif knowledge don't make your opinions any more valid than any other Joe bloggs so quit shoving it down our necks your starting to get boring now.
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Post by macca on Aug 11, 2018 13:37:28 GMT
'Bloke who likes to listen at 100dB peaks finds more powerful amplifier sounds better'. Duh.
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Post by antonio on Aug 11, 2018 13:39:59 GMT
And you Wanking and shilling Harbeth and NVA @ every fukin opportunity. Your hif knowledge don't make your opinions any more valid than any other Joe bloggs so quit shoving it down our necks your starting to get boring now. You've missed off ATC Jammy. Sorry Dave
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 14:07:06 GMT
Aye......Sorry Ant........& ATC.
😁
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 14:14:30 GMT
And you Wanking and shilling Harbeth and NVA @ every fukin opportunity. Your hif knowledge don't make your opinions any more valid than any other Joe bloggs so quit shoving it down our necks your starting to get boring now. jammy, what exactly are you contributing here?
Who's the bully-boy now eh? If you don't like it, why don't you quit as well?
We're supposedly here on this forum to talk about the gear - ALL GEAR right? maybe if you stuck around, you might learn something from other's experiences and not just mine.
Like I said in the op (which I can't now delete) - take or leave as you wish!
See ya round the galaxy - maybe...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 14:33:08 GMT
WOW.........Get out the wrong side of bed Dave ?
Perhaps a bad day the plastic factory, that glue fumes messin with your head ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 14:37:18 GMT
This is gold!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 14:41:22 GMT
Well he started it.......Na, na na, na na na.
He's being very childish.
😁😁😁
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 11, 2018 17:27:01 GMT
I’m not exactly sure what Dave is saying but he’s welcome to say it Were you just pointing out that amps do make a difference, even with Harbeth, no matter what the maker says? Also that they respond to power? Part of my confusion is because I find Stereophile reviews difficult to digest because they go on too long before getting to the meat. If I knew what the reviewer was saying, I might understand the thread better. Whilst I’m at it, I,also find many reviews including Stereophile tend to put the price in. A place I find hard to locate, write it large at the top of every review, folks. It’s the most important piece of information AFAIC, so why hide it? Whatever the ins and outs Dave and Jammy appear to have made Shane happy.
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Post by antonio on Aug 11, 2018 18:27:27 GMT
Deep breath dsjr - aaaand reeeelaax.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 19:36:38 GMT
Whilst I’m at it, I,also find many reviews including Stereophile tend to put the price in. A place I find hard to locate, write it large at the top of every review, folks. It’s the most important piece of information AFAIC, so why hide it? Yup that annoys me as well, little point reading the article if it's beyond your budget. Get it up in big figures.
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Post by macca on Aug 11, 2018 22:19:28 GMT
Even if I can't afford it I'll still read the review same as I will watch Clarkson driving a Ferrari. But I agree why not put the price at the head of the review instead of tucking it away in amongst the performance figures or something? Although we all know the reason.
I wonder how far you would get with an honest hi-fi mag? Hi Fi World was a bit like that to begin with. I remember they had grief from Canon and Pentachord for putting up unfavourable reviews.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 12, 2018 7:35:37 GMT
Slightly,off topic but itnalos annoys me when manufacturers won’t release a price list. Audio Note are one such company: You have to ring a dealer!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 7:38:02 GMT
Yes that's naughty, They must assume "If you've got to ask, you can't afford it"
😈
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 7:42:09 GMT
Slightly,off topic but itnalos annoys me when manufacturers won’t release a price list. Audio Note are one such company: You have to ring a dealer! Most people would run a mile if they saw their prices. I was looking through Audio Note cables. The pricing is monstrous for some of the 'off the roll' stuff. Take a look: www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cables.shtmlAnd that's an old list.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 12, 2018 7:48:10 GMT
I remember being a bit irked when I heard this and actually rang a dealer, He agreed it was daft but said he was under orders. At least I got out of him that the latest AN-Ks were two and a half grand! You can buy a second hand pair for £250 so that explains the reticence, I guess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 11:56:24 GMT
Even if I can't afford it I'll still read the review same as I will watch Clarkson driving a Ferrari. But I agree why not put the price at the head of the review instead of tucking it away in amongst the performance figures or something? Although we all know the reason. I wonder how far you would get with an honest hi-fi mag? Hi Fi World was a bit like that to begin with. I remember they had grief from Canon and Pentachord for putting up unfavourable reviews. I've only ever read HiFi World once. I was in for a long train journey and had forgotten to pack a book, so I bought a copy of HiFi World at W H Smiths. Within ten minutes of starting to read it, I fell asleep. Now, you might say I was tired, had had an early start, whatever. But the same thing happened when I tried to read it at home. Got about halfway through an article, off to the Land of Nod again. Now, HiFi+ may be full of flowery reviews of over-priced bollocks, but it's never sent me to sleep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 12:09:25 GMT
I know I know,reviews are Sh#t in certain UK audiophile circles and not worth reading - and nobody here is going to be in the slightest bit interested in a costly bling'd up old BBC monitor descendant...
Back to what i'm trying to say - We all know and scoff how Harbeth try to deny that 'we' hear differences in amps and how a sub £1000 Yamaha integrated (or similar powerful equivalent) is all you need - I started reading page two of this review and all but dismissed it as he was using the usual suspect low powered valve stuff including Line Magnetic, finishing off with a huge ss amp,showing firstly how lots of power benefits a speaker like this but also what it was to him with the less powered valve stuff...
Anyway, take or leave as you wish
I read through the review, but, even though I've been reading 'difficult' prose for most of my adult life, I struggled to understand what the chap was getting at. For instance, he sometimes takes Alan Shaw's words as gospel (Harbeths sound best with grilles on) but then argues that (unsurprisingly, perhaps) Harbeths reflect the sound of the amps being used to drive them, which goes against Shaw's own amp-neutral position. FWIW I own, and love, the 'little' Harbeths, but my experience with the larger models has been, shall we say, a bit 'mixed'. (As a side comment, Harbeths are horrendously expensive in the USA; the dollar price being about twice the UK price).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 12:21:26 GMT
Audio Note = Over Fucking Priced!!
S.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 13:26:47 GMT
I know I know,reviews are Sh#t in certain UK audiophile circles and not worth reading - and nobody here is going to be in the slightest bit interested in a costly bling'd up old BBC monitor descendant...
Back to what i'm trying to say - We all know and scoff how Harbeth try to deny that 'we' hear differences in amps and how a sub £1000 Yamaha integrated (or similar powerful equivalent) is all you need - I started reading page two of this review and all but dismissed it as he was using the usual suspect low powered valve stuff including Line Magnetic, finishing off with a huge ss amp,showing firstly how lots of power benefits a speaker like this but also what it was to him with the less powered valve stuff...
Anyway, take or leave as you wish
I read through the review, but, even though I've been reading 'difficult' prose for most of my adult life, I struggled to understand what the chap was getting at. For instance, he sometimes takes Alan Shaw's words as gospel (Harbeths sound best with grilles on) but then argues that (unsurprisingly, perhaps) Harbeths reflect the sound of the amps being used to drive them, which goes against Shaw's own amp-neutral position. FWIW I own, and love, the 'little' Harbeths, but my experience with the larger models has been, shall we say, a bit 'mixed'. (As a side comment, Harbeths are horrendously expensive in the USA; the dollar price being about twice the UK price). Yes I obviously read it as well dvh (a couple of times actually, to see wtf Dave was on about)?...........15mins of my life squandered. Any way the jist of it was (I think) big good ss amps are good but medium power amps are also good but valve amps are also good as well. ??😁
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Post by dsjr on Aug 12, 2018 14:56:11 GMT
What got my goat about it and didn't come across.. Apologies for the length of the post.
Harbeth's designer (with whom I had a bloody great row a couple of years ago concerning his narrow, dated and utterly rigid sanctimonious early 1970's attitude!), has stated quite plainly that the more power you can give his creations the better. Having heard all of his current models, I'm inclined to agree with him in this one aspect if little else these days..
So what does this reviewer-guru do? He ignores the designers advice when reviewing what is basically an inefficient 'monitor' descendent (albeit an old fashioned one no longer used professionally) which needs 'power' to wake it up and uses underpowered valve integrateds which alter the response of 'complex two ways' like this one and proceeds to espouse the sound quality of these speakers. He then finally reluctantly? switched to a humungous ss amp offering proper power (for these speakers) and some of the truth suddenly dawns in the way they wake up and start to portray dynamics properly.
That's all it was. This reviewer is revered in some circles as Martin Colloms used to be here. I'm reminded how Alvin Gold used to 'listen' to stuff he was reviewing - I'm told in his early days in a spare bedroom with bed in it, sitting on the side of the bed...... Effin' amateurs...At least Ken Kessler had a small factory unit he'd set up to use as his review base I gather.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 15:57:30 GMT
Fair enough. I've seen plenty of reviews where the reviewer completely ignores the manufacturer's/designer's recommendations re partnering equipment (whether through pressure of deadlines, laziness, or another reason) and then gives the equipment a lukewarm review. Still, better that than those reviewers who give manufacturers the benefit of every doubt (eg 'if it sounds crap to you maybe it hasn't burned in properly'; 'it didn't work at all, so they sent me another', and so on.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 12, 2018 17:59:01 GMT
Now I get you, Dave. I think there’s often a tendency to assume that valve amps can somehow defy the laws of physics. Nobody would dream of trying a low powered SS amp, but when it comes to valves, it’s somehow fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 23:06:14 GMT
I forgive you Dave, just never ever ever ever........
Mention Harbeth & NVA in the same post again.
😸😸😸
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 13:18:01 GMT
I have had the opportunity to listen to a few speakers that Stereophile wet their panties about and call them the best they have ever heard they put them in Class A. That to me and in my opinion sound bloody awful, these have all been used with high end fronts so there is no excuse.
I know what I like and that is all that counts to me they are my lugs my bucks my music.
I will you a run down in these speakers. This my opinion only please, having sat in rooms listening to various kit over the years, it is very rare that everyone agrees.
For the hell of it here goes.
Vivid Audio, OK they are made in my home country, so by all accounts I should be biased towards them. Heaven knows we have very little going for us, being under the thumb of a thieving, incompetent, uneducated, stupid, self entitled, corrupt, and unpatriotic destructive regime.
They sound dreadful to my ears, they bite, and snarl, music jumps up and down between the different drivers like a drunk playing scales on a pub piano, and they shout and yap like a Miniature Pinscher. I have heard the B1 K1 and the G1 Giya
Golden Ear, heard the 1 the 3 and the 3. Bloody awful, no coherence between the bass and the rest of the thing, no matter how much you adjust the bass bin controls. They also sound dead and lifeless, bit like a drunk whore, it makes no matter what front end you throw at them. Got that nasty thump thump unn detailed bass, AKA B&W.
Kef Muon at the agents on their set up, perhaps the most disappointing thing I have ever heard since been laughed at when I asked a girl in my class to a party when I was a rather spotty 12 year old.
B&W 800D and 802D very accurate but as boring to listen to as the drone of a washing machine. Nasty Grainy overpriced Mr. Plod looking things.
Avantgarde, listened to the Zero, Uno, Duo, and the Trio. Zero not bad could not get them to image no matter what we tried. Put a cheap pair of book shelves in the same room and they imaged like hell The rest I wanted to tear my ears off, they bit like a screeching cat. This is on various forms of amplification SET, Ultra Linear, and all sorts of solid state including some very expensive full class A amps. In different blokes rooms. And I like the Klipsch house sound go figure.
The ones I have liked, the YG Carmel, but for the price no thanks. A relativity compact floor standing 2 way. This speaker did not have the dreaded mid range bump like a lot of speakers have that lack real bass, due to their limited box size.
Sonus Faber the ones I have heard have all been a very pleasant listen, nothing to get excited about apart from the Amati Homage, and that one I found to be exciting at first, but after a hour or two of listening to it, it started to work on my nerves. I tracked it down to some mid range distortion. Granted they were a well used pair that when played with various vinyl rigs had the woofers flapping around like a fish out of water. Who knows how that had harmed the drivers over the years. A distortion free driver should not move one little bit on its suspension in my book.
Very little impresses me, now and again I come across something that is very affordable that sounds good, the economic sums add up and I am impressed. For example an AT95E cartridge, the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speaker, A Rega 2, the quartz direct drive Technics tables, a 70's Pioneer PL 12-15 record deck, the under the radar - CDX Yamaha and the JVC XL-Z range of CDP's
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Post by alit on Aug 13, 2018 15:16:49 GMT
Let’s not mention stuff that’s been reviewed by mags that never came out of the box it was delivered in..
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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 16:19:38 GMT
I forgive you Dave, just never ever ever ever........ Mention Harbeth & NVA in the same post again. 😸😸😸 I have a pair of the former. They live in their boxes sulking until I can buy and fit a set of updated crossovers so I can give them one last chance in this room. If they still don't work, they'll be history sharpish!
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