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Post by stevew on Dec 1, 2022 21:05:06 GMT
So … Nords arriving on Monday.
I’ll have a chat with Nord acoustic about options for upgrades (buffer and op amps), then with a little help from a friend some rca inputs can be installed…They are on their way from the us.
Then some interesting comparisons can be made … but the arrival of the Ekta’s in the new year will have the oomph with detail they deserve and need.
Then I’ll see if these amps stay for the duration or the 686 is the way to go.
Happy days.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 1, 2022 22:12:11 GMT
I think the money the Nords are costing makes them a pretty sensible choice at the minute.
The Opamp discussion generally seems to end up with Sparkos being favoured, and with the Etka in mind, I think they will allow you to hear both flavours at their fullest.
A 686 would have been my first choice, but expensive builds and the lack of new PCB availability makes a 686 pretty unlikely at the moment.
I don't think you're gonna be unhappy, and having heard a few Class D amps....I like them.
The Benchmark is the middle ground? Interesting
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Post by stevew on Dec 1, 2022 22:44:34 GMT
I think the money the Nords are costing makes them a pretty sensible choice at the minute. The Opamp discussion generally seems to end up with Sparkos being favoured, and with the Etka in mind, I think they will allow you to hear both flavours at their fullest. A 686 would have been my first choice, but expensive builds and the lack of new PCB availability makes a 686 pretty unlikely at the moment. I don't think you're gonna be unhappy, and having heard a few Class D amps....I like them. The Benchmark is the middle ground? Interesting Yes, it’s becoming part of an interesting journey. I have no idea how you could choose which Opamp to have unless you were able to audition. Or indeed if it’s necessary to upgrade buffers from rev-c to rev-d. You need one per channel and at £274 each, the cost soon mount up. However I suspect worth doing. |
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Post by firebottle on Dec 2, 2022 8:35:43 GMT
Getting back to the Newprime AMG-STA I heard earlier this week, it's a cracker.
It's 130W per channel class D (200W into 4 ohm) but with a linear power supply so no polluting SMPS.
I just wish I could find one 2nd hand at a comparable price the owner paid, an absolute bargain.
New price (UK) is £1495
The detail and soundstage was exquisite, better than any other class D I have heard, I'd have one as a replacement to the 286 if the situation arose.
The grip on the speakers was superb, as others have noticed with recent class D amplifiers.
Highly recommended to have an audition if you are at that budgetary level.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 2, 2022 8:49:31 GMT
Getting back to the Newprime AMG-STA I heard earlier this week, it's a cracker. It's 130W per channel class D (200W into 4 ohm) but with a linear power supply so no polluting SMPS. I just wish I could find one 2nd hand at a comparable price the owner paid, an absolute bargain. New price (UK) is £1495 The detail and soundstage was exquisite, better than any other class D I have heard, I'd have one as a replacement to the 286 if the situation arose. The grip on the speakers was superb, as others have noticed with recent class D amplifiers. Highly recommended to have an audition if you are at that budgetary level. "Tonal qualities of the AMG STA leans toward being full and rich, so instruments and vocals seem to gain extra body, weight, and harmonic richness. It may not be the most accurate reproduction but does make Jazz and Vocal pieces highly addictive. It may take away the raw edge of Rock and Electronic music and sounds less exciting for some" I'd hang on until your speakers arrive and see if you can do the comparison again mate. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 2, 2022 8:57:46 GMT
@bigman80 'I'd hang on until your speakers arrive and see if you can do the comparison again mate." You're a fine one to talk.  |
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Post by stevew on Dec 2, 2022 15:23:42 GMT
Choices .. choices.
From Nords website, their own description of the two op amps in their kit
Nord Acoustic
Sparkos Labs SS2590 Op Amps Producing a slightly warmer, softer, fuller sound than the Sonic Imagery 990’s.
Slightly less detailed and would suit those after a more valve amp sound.
Sonic Imagery 990 Op Amp. Wonderful airy precise sound without being fatiguing or analytical.
They have a very deep soundstage and are my favorite Op Amp.
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Post by lurch on Dec 2, 2022 15:45:07 GMT
I'm running the SIs in Rev C Input buffer boards in my NC500Ms and in no way do they sound cold or overly analytical. They are just wonderfully detailed, fast and tonally rich, with a wide & deep soundstage, so much so I don't miss my IA MB845SEs at all. stevew If your gonna use them on the floor, I made my own amp stands from 2x slate cheese boards, 8x rubber doorstops and Evostick, they're just the right size and work a treat. |
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Post by stevew on Dec 2, 2022 16:07:56 GMT
I'm running the SIs in Rev C Input buffer boards in my NC500Ms and in no way do they sound cold or overly analytical. They are just wonderfully detailed, fast and tonally rich, with a wide & deep soundstage, so much so I don't miss my IA MB845SEs at all. stevew If your gonna use them on the floor, I made my own amp stands from 2x slate cheese boards, 8x rubber doorstops and Evostick, they're just the right size and work a treat. Really good to know. I don’t know what opamps are in there at the moment but I think the latest Sonic Image opamps have been tweaked From Nord website Sonic Imagery 990Enh Op Amp Sonic Imagery 990 Op Amp 2 required per buffer board, 4 in total for a 2 channel amp. Will not work in Rev C Buffer Board |
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Post by lurch on Dec 2, 2022 16:26:18 GMT
If you do upgrade to the Rev D boards then the kit comes supplied with the OAs, of your choice included in the price.
For me the way these amps sound now then the Rev Ds would have to be a SERIOUS uplift to get me onboard at the price. I can't see that they'd actually be that much better for the cost involved (£600)?? To be a VFM consideration.
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Post by hifinutt on Dec 2, 2022 17:29:31 GMT
I had class d ice power on my tannoy Eaton for several years and it was just delightful. Very good indeed
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Post by firebottle on Dec 2, 2022 18:04:29 GMT
I have had an ice power amp and in general they are a bit warmer than others, not quite as cold and clinical.
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Post by lurch on Dec 6, 2022 21:40:02 GMT
Nords arriving on Monday. So...... Verdict so far?? |
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Post by stevew on Dec 7, 2022 7:28:10 GMT
Nords arriving on Monday. So...... Verdict so far?? Haha.. well.. they got delayed by DHL so didn’t turn up till yesterday afternoon. Only had about an hour to plumb it in and listen. Wow. So much more of everything that it’s a little difficult to describe. A few veils being lifted… lol. What I can say is that I listened to my ‘test tracks’ for far longer than I would normally. Tracks by Dire Staits and Mark Knopfler were far more detailed than I’m used to, whilst you can physically hear the band being driven along by the rhythm section. If I’m being really critical then some of the higher frequency stuff sounds a little too accentuated. But then I’ve not got the Ekta’s yet. Might be the speakers. However at the same time you get that ‘airiness’ in performances. The good news is that there are rev-c and sonic imagery op amps. Like you intimated John, it’s debatable if the rev-d upgrade is good value. I’d like to demo the rev-d and Sparko’s before splashing out another £700. All in good time. |
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Arke
Moderator
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Post by Arke on Dec 7, 2022 8:18:15 GMT
That sounds very promising stevew! The Ektas will have the option to fine tune the HF slightly. Sounds like you can fine tune a little with the op amp choice too! All very exciting |
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Post by stevew on Dec 7, 2022 8:28:00 GMT
That sounds very promising stevew! The Ektas will have the option to fine tune the HF slightly. Sounds like you can fine tune a little with the op amp choice too! All very exciting Yeah.. even mr BT is smiling  |
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 7, 2022 9:15:21 GMT
Class D innit, the top end will always sound a bit edgy because that's where they spew out all their noise.
Which is why every class d measurement you see in reviews done on an Audio Precision box has the class D filter in place which reduces the out of band noise to make them measure better.
Still great amps.
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Post by stevew on Dec 8, 2022 17:56:38 GMT
Bit of a post script to the journey.
Became obvious to me today that these Nords didn’t show any excitement or high frequency issues with vinyl.
So it’s my digital side.
Now I’d played round with the NOS/OS settings on the Aries when I first got it. Never really heard much difference so I left it in NOS. However switched to OS/slow filter today and any issues have dissolved. Blimey. Magic. No accentuated highs. Just powerful an detailed music.. even with the quiet stuff.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,430
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2022 18:19:44 GMT
That's a good result Steve.
Digital does seem to have a lot of HF energy so using the filters to get it right is a useful move.
Well done!
Seems the Nord's are doing ok?
You'll know for sure when your Etka land.
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Post by lurch on Dec 8, 2022 18:29:26 GMT
Bit of a post script to the journey. Became obvious to me today that these Nords didn’t show any excitement or high frequency issues with vinyl. So it’s my digital side. Now I’d played round with the NOS/OS settings on the Aries when I first got it. Never really heard much difference so I left it in NOS. However switched to OS/slow filter today and any issues have dissolved. Blimey. Magic. No accentuated highs. Just powerful an detailed music.. even with the quiet stuff. Well I did say they was bloody good amps. Now you see why I really like mine. So glad you took the punt on these, and at £749 you stole them off him. 😀 |
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2022 19:01:29 GMT
NOS is a good way to get distortion into the signal, interesting that it did not show up with your previous amp.
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Post by stevew on Dec 8, 2022 20:38:30 GMT
NOS is a good way to get distortion into the signal, interesting that it did not show up with your previous amp. Didn’t know that. It’s a bit counter intuitive as I thought non oversampling meant that it didn’t fiddle with things... but can’t argue with the results. Yeah and strange that my last amp didn’t pick it up.. a bit of a power beast, but short on detail. |
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Post by macca on Dec 9, 2022 6:59:39 GMT
NOS is a good way to get distortion into the signal, interesting that it did not show up with your previous amp. Didn’t know that. It’s a bit counter intuitive as I thought non oversampling meant that it didn’t fiddle with things... but can’t argue with the results. Yeah and strange that my last amp didn’t pick it up.. a bit of a power beast, but short on detail. NOS introduces intermodulation distortion and noise, which may be audible. and IMD sounds bad. Supposed benefit is no pre or post ringing. But that isn't audible - some will say it is but there is no evidence and it seems very unlikely. |
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Post by firebottle on Dec 9, 2022 8:22:56 GMT
Where are you getting the information that NOS introduces IMD and noise?
Oversampling can reduce noise and can be helpful in avoiding aliasing and phase distortion, but I have never heard of NOS making things worse than the original.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 9, 2022 10:59:24 GMT
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,430
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 9, 2022 14:43:48 GMT
Thanks for the link Simon. That was really an interesting read and certainly contained good info that was not known to me before I read it. Quality. I particularly like this nugget: "A person who is honest enough with him/herself to say that he/she likes certain types of distortions in the sound, can objectively point to that which they desire, because it "sounds good" to them. This also means that the person accepts that he is not aiming for "high fidelity" sound. Rather, his pursuit is of a certain "coloration" to the sound that is possibly idiosyncratic rather than universal or ideal - by definition, this pursuit is not faithful to what was on the recording" |
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Post by stevew on Dec 9, 2022 15:06:41 GMT
It’s me though.
Having spent my whole career in meetings where graphs kept being produced.. and then asked to produce them myself.. I go into this catatonic state. Must be how hypnotherapy works.
Show me a graph.. and my eyes go like those of the snake in The Jungle book.
Sales meetings with graphs about market share, monthly margins, product split.
I know they are all there to prove something..
It’s me.. it’s not you.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 9, 2022 22:58:12 GMT
You know it Oli, there's nothing wrong with distortion, it what makes rock n roll, rock.
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Post by firebottle on Dec 10, 2022 11:35:53 GMT
OK I can have my own Neurochrome / Class D shoot out now, though it's not going to be a quick or sudden decision of any sort. I have bought the Nuprime AMG-STA that I heard the other week as I liked what it did. Being a class D output the grip on the speakers is most impressive and I'm looking forward to what it will do on the Ektas. Tonality is excellent and there is real clarity and detail, lots of listening to be done. The power level has gone up as it's 200W into 4 ohm, not that it will make a lot of difference but plenty of headroom is always a good thing.   It's quite a compact beast but quite heavy as it has a linear power supply inside. |
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Post by stevew on Dec 10, 2022 11:52:57 GMT
OK I can have my own Neurochrome / Class D shoot out now, though it's not going to be a quick or sudden decision of any sort. I have bought the Nuprime AMG-STA that I heard the other week as I liked what it did. Being a class D output the grip on the speakers is most impressive and I'm looking forward to what it will do on the Ektas. Tonality is excellent and there is real clarity and detail, lots of listening to be done. The power level has gone up as it's 200W into 4 ohm, not that it will make a lot of difference but plenty of headroom is always a good thing. It's quite a compact beast but quite heavy as it has a linear power supply inside. How about I bring the Nords across when you have your Ekta’s? Or you to here? |
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