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Post by robbiegong on Nov 3, 2022 13:20:32 GMT
I believe this is the first post since the 'drifting' posts moved to here... Interesting and good new thread title @bigman80. That should get the conversation going... I will start and say NO commercial speakers are not a waste of money! A good used commercial speaker can be very good VFM. However, it is a minefield and it *can be* hard to audition (in your own room) and there are plenty of worn out and abused speakers out there. Granted DIY has the similar pitfalls - you usually can't audition those either. As mentioned above, ARKE speakers aren't DIY - the end user did not 'do it themselves'. I built the Arke Duos so people can hear what well designed and well made bespoke speakers can do. No one will believe it until they hear it for themselves. People will spend their money how they see fit. I'm just hoping to provide another option for people to try. Excellent post - measured and accurate response
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 3, 2022 14:55:21 GMT
The problem with 'DIY' is that it is hit and miss, exactly like commercial speakers too. Many DIY designs aren't great - believe me I've had them and so has my brother. It was only when I discovered Troels designs I realised that DIY can be exceptional. There is a big caveat, even with Troels deisgns... You've got to have a decent cabinet! That's where many people go wrong. I agree that you can get incredible VFM with used speakers. I'd be very keen to hear any sub £5k used speakers alongside some Ektas. I think it would be really interesting. I'm sure we can arrange some bake offs at some point. I will start and say NO commercial speakers are not a waste of money! A good used commercial speaker can be very good VFM. However, it is a minefield and it *can be* hard to audition (in your own room) and there are plenty of worn out and abused speakers out there. Granted DIY has the similar pitfalls - you usually can't audition those either. As mentioned above, ARKE speakers aren't DIY - the end user did not 'do it themselves'. I built the Arke Duos so people can hear what well designed and well made bespoke speakers can do. No one will believe it until they hear it for themselves. People will spend their money how they see fit. I'm just hoping to provide another option for people to try. I've been thinking my next speakers may be DIY *builds* but have avoided Troels' designs primarily because he seems to refuse characterise the voicing, application, strengths, and weaknesses of each speaker. He won't tell you what it sounds like, and in my previous noddling could not find any decent reviews of such, let alone options to audition. That's why I've been looking at GR Research and CSS Audio because they have a lot of reviews to compare and contrast and get some rough idea. Great that you've built some with a view to demo for others, Arke.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 16:15:43 GMT
The problem with 'DIY' is that it is hit and miss, exactly like commercial speakers too. Many DIY designs aren't great - believe me I've had them and so has my brother. It was only when I discovered Troels designs I realised that DIY can be exceptional. There is a big caveat, even with Troels deisgns... You've got to have a decent cabinet! That's where many people go wrong. I agree that you can get incredible VFM with used speakers. I'd be very keen to hear any sub £5k used speakers alongside some Ektas. I think it would be really interesting. I'm sure we can arrange some bake offs at some point. I will start and say NO commercial speakers are not a waste of money! A good used commercial speaker can be very good VFM. However, it is a minefield and it *can be* hard to audition (in your own room) and there are plenty of worn out and abused speakers out there. Granted DIY has the similar pitfalls - you usually can't audition those either. As mentioned above, ARKE speakers aren't DIY - the end user did not 'do it themselves'. I built the Arke Duos so people can hear what well designed and well made bespoke speakers can do. No one will believe it until they hear it for themselves. People will spend their money how they see fit. I'm just hoping to provide another option for people to try. I've been thinking my next speakers may be DIY *builds* but have avoided Troels' designs primarily because he seems to refuse characterise the voicing, application, strengths, and weaknesses of each speaker. He won't tell you what it sounds like, and in my previous noddling could not find any decent reviews of such, let alone options to audition. That's why I've been looking at GR Research and CSS Audio because they have a lot of reviews to compare and contrast and get some rough idea. Great that you've built some with a view to demo for others, Arke. Welcome to come and have a listen to these ones here. I have another victim..ahem, auditionee here Saturday!!! I may have to start charging commission
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 17:17:30 GMT
I've been thinking my next speakers may be DIY *builds* but have avoided Troels' designs primarily because he seems to refuse characterise the voicing, application, strengths, and weaknesses of each speaker. He won't tell you what it sounds like, and in my previous noddling could not find any decent reviews of such, let alone options to audition. That's why I've been looking at GR Research and CSS Audio because they have a lot of reviews to compare and contrast and get some rough idea. Great that you've built some with a view to demo for others, Arke. Welcome to come and have a listen to these ones here. I have another victim..ahem, auditionee here Saturday!!! I may have to start charging commission You're a busy man with the demos! The 'load' will lift as more become available! A few others have said they'd be happy to demo too. I'll probably have Ektas here soon too! It is very much appreciated!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 17:18:52 GMT
Welcome to come and have a listen to these ones here. I have another victim..ahem, auditionee here Saturday!!! I may have to start charging commission You're a busy man with the demos! The 'load' will lift as more become available! A few others have said they'd be happy to demo too. I'll probably have Ektas here soon too! It is very much appreciated! No worries at all, happy to let folks have a listen.
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 17:24:25 GMT
The problem with 'DIY' is that it is hit and miss, exactly like commercial speakers too. Many DIY designs aren't great - believe me I've had them and so has my brother. It was only when I discovered Troels designs I realised that DIY can be exceptional. There is a big caveat, even with Troels deisgns... You've got to have a decent cabinet! That's where many people go wrong. I agree that you can get incredible VFM with used speakers. I'd be very keen to hear any sub £5k used speakers alongside some Ektas. I think it would be really interesting. I'm sure we can arrange some bake offs at some point. I will start and say NO commercial speakers are not a waste of money! A good used commercial speaker can be very good VFM. However, it is a minefield and it *can be* hard to audition (in your own room) and there are plenty of worn out and abused speakers out there. Granted DIY has the similar pitfalls - you usually can't audition those either. As mentioned above, ARKE speakers aren't DIY - the end user did not 'do it themselves'. I built the Arke Duos so people can hear what well designed and well made bespoke speakers can do. No one will believe it until they hear it for themselves. People will spend their money how they see fit. I'm just hoping to provide another option for people to try. I've been thinking my next speakers may be DIY *builds* but have avoided Troels' designs primarily because he seems to refuse characterise the voicing, application, strengths, and weaknesses of each speaker. He won't tell you what it sounds like, and in my previous noddling could not find any decent reviews of such, let alone options to audition. That's why I've been looking at GR Research and CSS Audio because they have a lot of reviews to compare and contrast and get some rough idea. Great that you've built some with a view to demo for others, Arke. I found that aspect of the Troels DIY experience could be frustrating too. However, as time goes on, I do understand why. 1000s of people have built his speakers and I think he used to try to advise a little. I think it just takes too much time with so many potential builders. In addition, we all want such different things and hear/perceive differently too. What sort of thing are you looking for? I have heard the Ektas, CNO25s and the Arke Duos are based on a Troels standmount design. I will have the CNO4s soon too. You'd be very welcome to audition any I have access to. I have found the builders responses can provide some insight into the sound too. Enjoy your build once you choose a speaker.
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Post by stevew on Nov 3, 2022 17:24:29 GMT
You're a busy man with the demos! The 'load' will lift as more become available! A few others have said they'd be happy to demo too. I'll probably have Ektas here soon too! It is very much appreciated! No worries at all, happy to let folks have a listen. Yup… same here. My Ektas will be here (south Cheshire) early in Dec all being well. Visitors welcome.
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 17:27:05 GMT
No worries at all, happy to let folks have a listen. Yup… same here. My Ektas will be here (south Cheshire) early in Dec all being well. Visitors welcome. Thanks Steve. Fingers crossed for Dec for yours - I am slightly at the mercy of when stock comes from Scanspeak - still awaiting 18W illuminator drivers.
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Post by gninnam on Nov 3, 2022 21:04:59 GMT
I have a pair of Reiver speakers which are a bit like the Arkes Over the years they have produced various models in limited numbers and the design and thought that goes into how the drivers work with the cabinet with the X-Overs makes them sound very good compared to the price you pay.
I am sure that we have all had commercial speakers that at the time we were very happy with (I know a few that I would like to hear again) but bang for buck it has to be companies like Arke and Reiver (although he has just hung up his coat so no more will be made) is the way to go (I am sure there are many other companies that work along the same lines and ethos)
Horses for courses etc.
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Post by robbiegong on Nov 3, 2022 21:48:55 GMT
Although I've been really happy with the two main commercial speakers i've owned, Mission 752 Freedom and current Spendor D7, like most things now, prices have now gone nuts, for a certain commercial speakers.
The revised D7.2 which I've hankered after, used of course, launched in 2020 at £4.5, quickly went up and stayed steady at £4750, they are now £5650, hence if I ever had enough dough, it would be to buy used.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 22:02:47 GMT
Although I've been really happy with the two main commercial speakers i've owned, Mission 752 Freedom and current Spendor D7, like most things now, prices have gone nuts. The revised D7.2 which I've hankered after, used of course, launched in 2020 at £4.5, quickly went up and stayed steady at £4750, they are now £5650, hence if I ever had enough dough, it would be to buy used. £5500 could get you a pair of Illuminator 7751, or something equally as ridiculous. There's no way any brand name would get my money now. I watched a show on Netflix the other day about Pizza. The guy they were profiling said he went to Italy as a kid, and after eating he was wondering what dessert was going to be. Out came a bowl full of water and ice, and inside were peaches, bobbing around like apples. He took a knife, cut it, and ate a slice. He said "it was like I had never eaten anything before in my life" This applies to these speaker. You think you know good speakers, you've heard the legendary ones, then these Troels designs rock up and put you on your arse, knocks the speech out of you and leaves you feeling like you had your head up your arse. No hype, No BS...they have changed my perspective on speaker value in such a dramatic way that I just cannot see past them.
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Post by stevew on Nov 4, 2022 8:19:51 GMT
The story of the owner of Legend Acoustics in Australia is a salutary lesson in the pros and cons of commercial loudspeakers. He used to design for Linn. Ok, so maybe not the best example of the forefront of speaker performance.. but I would guess that the pressures of cost/competition/ budgets for other things are all relevant www.legendspeakers.com.au/Backup-old-site/legendstory.php
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Post by stryder5 on Nov 4, 2022 10:45:54 GMT
Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. There are the Arke Ekta's too 😉and soon the Vaders 😉. Yes, the main design is Troels, but the cabinets are bespoke. Edit: OK, just seen you're talking about commercial speakers. Will the Trolls be making Christmas edition? Gary
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 4, 2022 10:58:31 GMT
There are the Arke Ekta's too 😉and soon the Vaders 😉. Yes, the main design is Troels, but the cabinets are bespoke. Edit: OK, just seen you're talking about commercial speakers. Will the Trolls be making Christmas edition? Gary He doesn't gnome yet.
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 4, 2022 15:13:00 GMT
What sort of thing are you looking for? I'll msg you.
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Post by stryder5 on Nov 4, 2022 15:43:29 GMT
Will the Trolls be making Christmas edition? Gary He doesn't gnome yet. Fairy confident though! Gary
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 4, 2022 17:13:16 GMT
Fairy confident though! Gary Ha ha ha, heh heh heh...
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 4, 2022 17:16:54 GMT
Fairy confident though! Gary Ha ha ha, heh heh heh... cageyh has a hobbit of joining in with this sort of thing, must be feeling a bit smaug after his latest round of puns.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2022 17:21:24 GMT
Ha ha ha, heh heh heh... cageyh has a hobbit of joining in with this sort of thing, must be feeling a bit smaug after his latest round of puns. Yule regret mentioning me...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2022 17:22:10 GMT
Snow use, now I am here though.
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