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Post by antonio on Oct 31, 2022 17:57:18 GMT
"I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of."
What about Arke's?
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Post by Arke on Oct 31, 2022 17:57:42 GMT
canton have been around for years . you often see ads for them . There is such huge choice of speakers in UK i am not sure would be tempted by some perlisten have been making a lot of noise recently and dealer near me has some I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of. Not heard any of those 3 brands, so I'll be keen to hear some Hecos soon... |
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Post by stevew on Oct 31, 2022 17:58:04 GMT
Canton used to be the upgrade stereo option for Skoda cars.
Really good quality
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2022 17:58:48 GMT
"I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." What about Arke's? Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. |
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Post by Arke on Oct 31, 2022 18:00:49 GMT
"I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." What about Arke's? Well, they are mostly designed in Denmark by Troels. I Just redesign the cabinets (whilst adhering to the key design constraints). They are definitely built in the UK though! |
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Post by Arke on Oct 31, 2022 18:03:30 GMT
"I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." What about Arke's? Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. There are the Arke Ekta's too 😉and soon the Vaders 😉. Yes, the main design is Troels, but the cabinets are bespoke. Edit: OK, just seen you're talking about commercial speakers. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2022 18:08:50 GMT
Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. There are the Arke Ekta's too 😉and soon the Vaders 😉. Yes, the main design is Troels, but the cabinets are bespoke. Again, only talking about whats available in the dealers mate. |
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Post by pete on Oct 31, 2022 18:57:25 GMT
When read the title I thought you was looking to see if anyone wanted to go on a foreign jaunt. 😂😂 I used to live in Canton, great inner city area of Cardiff |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Oct 31, 2022 19:38:19 GMT
There are the Arke Ekta's too 😉and soon the Vaders 😉. Yes, the main design is Troels, but the cabinets are bespoke. Again, only talking about whats available in the dealers mate. Q Acoustics, KEF, ProAc, Spendor, Fyne Audio, all have some worthy products. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2022 19:39:12 GMT
Again, only talking about whats available in the dealers mate. Q Acoustics, KEF, ProAc, Spendor, Fyne Audio, all have some worthy products. Yeah, you think they do.....until you hear what *can* be done for the same money in the world of DIY. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 31, 2022 20:31:24 GMT
"I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." What about Arke's? Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. What's unfair about my comment?  You read what you posted, nothing mentioned about being available at your local dealer. Jason admits he may not have designed them, but how many speakers have been designed with a completely new concept, all designers I'm sure 'pinch' a little bit from each other. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2022 21:45:28 GMT
Not a fair point...he has one pair of bookshelf speakers and they are not a commercial product. I was talking whzt could be got from a dealer, as was Phil i believe. I'd take the Arkes over anything i have heard in that size. What's unfair about my comment? You read what you posted, nothing mentioned about being available at your local dealer. Jason admits he may not have designed them, but how many speakers have been designed with a completely new concept, all designers I'm sure 'pinch' a little bit from each other. How's about you read the OP! 😂 "I filled in a question thing on the UK suppliers website, and within an hour he was ringing me, and arranging a demo at my local dealers, Analogue Seduction for the near future" We were talking UK supplier/distributor and speakers available from a dealership. The Troels designs are obviously not designed in the UK and are not available at a dealership. Jason may make Cabinets for them in the UK, but I didn't make a comment on Cabinet quality. The Arkes are not a commercial product...hence not considering them in that context. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 31, 2022 22:04:11 GMT
@bigman80 What has the op got to do with your quote, you have replied quoting hifinutt 's post, and you state "I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." Your reply to the op was post number 5 I assume. My reply was after all a wind up, since you are purchasing a pair of speakers, partly designed and fully manufactured in the uk.  What we need on this forum is a decent moderator. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 31, 2022 22:06:46 GMT
@bigman80 What has the op got to do with your quote, you have replied quoting hifinutt 's post, and you state "I'd take Canton, Heco or Qudral over any UK designed and made speaker i can think of." Your reply to the op was post number 5 I assume. My reply was after all a wind up, since you are purchasing a pair of speakers, partly designed and fully manufactured in the uk. What we need on this forum is a decent moderator. 😂😂 Where's Chris gone?? Lol |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 2, 2022 18:53:36 GMT
Q Acoustics, KEF, ProAc, Spendor, Fyne Audio, all have some worthy products. Yeah, you think they do.....until you hear what *can* be done for the same money in the world of DIY. Of that I have no doubt, and hope to find that out for myself at some point. Though the point I was making was that the above mentioned manufacturers probably make worthy alternatives to Quadral, Heco and Canton. I hope to change my speakers in the coming months, and at this point I have a list of contenders, including Arkes. |
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Post by macca on Nov 2, 2022 20:51:20 GMT
If we're just talking about going DIY to get best bang for the buck I'd have to say buying used probably has the edge.
For sound quality I don't see that DIY has any inherent edge. Big loudspeaker companies are far better placed to produce the state of the art, even if they often don't.
Although have to say some of the best speakers I have personally heard have been DIY
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Post by Arke on Nov 2, 2022 21:23:56 GMT
If we're just talking about going DIY to get best bang for the buck I'd have to say buying used probably has the edge. For sound quality I don't see that DIY has any inherent edge. Big loudspeaker companies are far better placed to produce the state of the art, even if they often don't. Although have to say some of the best speakers I have personally heard have been DIY The problem with 'DIY' is that it is hit and miss, exactly like commercial speakers too. Many DIY designs aren't great - believe me I've had them and so has my brother. It was only when I discovered Troels designs I realised that DIY can be exceptional. There is a big caveat, even with Troels deisgns... You've got to have a decent cabinet! That's where many people go wrong. I agree that you can get incredible VFM with used speakers. I'd be very keen to hear any sub £5k used speakers alongside some Ektas. I think it would be really interesting. I'm sure we can arrange some bake offs at some point. |
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 2, 2022 21:28:52 GMT
And some of the worst...
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 3, 2022 5:06:43 GMT
True DIY speakers (speaker design as well as cabinets) must be a real labour of love.
The resale value is generally rock bottom, and the sound so specific to the designer and maker that few others would want them anyway.
I've heard some truly dire DIY speakers, and some merely mediocre ones. Very few, if any, that I would care to live with.
Established designs like the Troels are something else altogether.
Mind you, some commercial speaker company offerings sound as if they are DIY!
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 7:18:47 GMT
True DIY speakers (speaker design as well as cabinets) must be a real labour of love. The resale value is generally rock bottom, and the sound so specific to the designer and maker that few others would want them anyway. I've heard some truly dire DIY speakers, and some merely mediocre ones. Very few, if any, that I would care to live with. Established designs like the Troels are something else altogether. Mind you, some commercial speaker company offerings sound as if they are DIY! A great post and sums up the challenges ARKE/Troels face very well. This is why I built the Arke Duos (based on a Troels design) and the Ektas. Until people hear an excellent 'DIY' speaker it is hard to comprehend that quality and performance is actually possible - I get that. The problem with DIY is consistency. I agree that most DIY speakers, especially TRUE DIY (someone with very little experience doing the entire design and build) is terrible. However, like you say "Established designs like the Troels are something else altogether." This is partly why I find the term 'DIY' isn't quite right for ARKE speakers. They are more bespoke speakers/cabinets based on a Troels design. It would be DIY if a customer does it all themselves. I've not had a problem with resale. I used to have some Wilmslow Audio Geminis (flat pack assembly build). They cost me £600 and I sold them 20 years later for £450. How many retail speakers hold 75% of their original value for 20years? I managed this by NOT selling them on Ebay. I demo'd them against some £2000-3000 retail speakers and they sold themselves. I didn't lose any money on my Ektas, so I consider that exceptional resale value. Admittedly, there is time associated with the builds and I didn't get that back. However, I was rewarded by not having to spend over £10000 to get close to the Ekta's performance - IMHO and based on what I have heard - it is highly subjective. I the end, people can listen and decide for themselves. ×This thread has drifted away into which speakers are best and the merits/pitfalls of 'DIY'. Maybe there should be a DIY vs commercial thread.× |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 3, 2022 7:48:58 GMT
I agree that the term 'DIY' isn't correct for ARKE speakers. I think 'hand crafted' and even 'bespoke' are better descriptions, and scale of manufacturing is the only difference I see between what you and the big companies do. Oh and also perhaps that it's a labour of love, not just a job.
When I think of 'diy' I think of something that I would make myself (and no one would ever want to hear that!), as opposed to something I have someone else design and make for me.
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 3, 2022 8:09:03 GMT
I think it's a case of commercial but not mass produced in Jason's case. .Made to order and bespoke, but certainly not diy.
Diy has advantages though for the person involved, doing it for the intrest , as a hobby. Also a sense of satisfaction when something finally comes together as well as inevitably problem solving along the way.
While the final results are potentially variable you can, with patience make stuff that sounds decent for a fraction of the retail cost and looks good too.
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 8:29:59 GMT
I agree that the term 'DIY' isn't correct for ARKE speakers. I think 'hand crafted' and even 'bespoke' are better descriptions, and scale of manufacturing is the only difference I see between what you and the big companies do. Oh and also perhaps that it's a labour of love, not just a job. When I think of 'diy' I think of something that I would make myself (and no one would ever want to hear that!), as opposed to something I have someone else design and make for me. Spot on *Edit* Ste! They aren't DIY and i shouldn't have labelled them as such. They are finely crafted bespoke speakers using a tried and tested expert Driver/XO system. Sounds a bit long winded lol |
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Post by peterthebutcher on Nov 3, 2022 9:05:15 GMT
And DIY has what to do with the original question, Etiquette dictates a new thread is required lmao
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Post by antonio on Nov 3, 2022 9:27:18 GMT
I'm staying out of this one for a change. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 9:41:05 GMT
And DIY has what to do with the original question, Etiquette dictates a new thread is required lmao Sorry P, we do tend to thread drift quite significantly on this forum...lack of proper leadership and moderators im afraid lol I'll sort one out. |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 3, 2022 10:16:14 GMT
I would agree with all the above Oli, except that my name is not Jerry. Though I have been called worse  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 3, 2022 10:17:51 GMT
I would agree with all the above Oli, except that my name is not Jerry. Though I have been called worse 😂 Sorry Ste...I was still half asleep at that time |
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 11:47:02 GMT
And DIY has what to do with the original question, Etiquette dictates a new thread is required lmao I agree and did mention this drift in one of my earlier posts. Sorry your thread has drifted into the merits or not of (not really) DIY speakers. I am partly to blame. 🙄 Enjoy the Cantons, I'd be keen to hear your thoughts. |
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Post by Arke on Nov 3, 2022 12:58:30 GMT
I believe this is the first post since the 'drifting' posts moved to here...
Interesting and good new thread title @bigman80. That should get the conversation going...
I will start and say NO commercial speakers are not a waste of money! A good used commercial speaker can be very good VFM. However, it is a minefield and it *can be* hard to audition (in your own room) and there are plenty of worn out and abused speakers out there.
Granted DIY has the similar pitfalls - you usually can't audition those either.
As mentioned above, ARKE speakers aren't DIY - the end user did not 'do it themselves'. I built the Arke Duos so people can hear what well designed and well made bespoke speakers can do. No one will believe it until they hear it for themselves.
People will spend their money how they see fit. I'm just hoping to provide another option for people to try.
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