Visit to Arke Audio (Rocklard)

There are many Faital 3 way kit options... A 10", 12" or 15" bass with increasing cabinet sizes. Beryllium tweeter options and different xover options. The prices linked on Troel's site do not include the Faital drivers, so they add about £500-600 depending on the speaker. Cabinet costs vary massively depending on size and complexity. A super fancy fully specced 15" 3 way Faital could cost 2-3 times as much as a completely basic 10" option. There are so many variables it's hard to price... I reckon it could vary from £3—10k depending on how big, how specced and how bespoke you choose.

I think bass has a few key attributes... Speed, weight and depth. Granted a very good (and well implemented) 7" driver (like on the Ekta mkIIs) can be way better than a cheap and poorly implemented 12-15" driver. When comparing similar drivers and build qualities I always think displacing more air is preferable. A larger area of driver has to move less and distortion is generally lower (all things being equal). Yes, all out depth and extension is important, but most of what people love about bass (bass guitar, double bass, drums etc.) is in the 40-200Hz region. Real slam and weight is very important in this region. I don't think you can cheat physics. If you can move more air in the 40-200Hz region you will better reproduce bass. 20-40Hz is very important too, but I don't think the slam comes from here. The Faitals will realistically go comfortably to 30Hz. I'd use a sub or subs below that.

well now we are into the meat of it. There's only frequency, amplitude and phase so what actually produces 'slam'? I'll agree it does seem to be a property only of big drivers but  it is really just having sufficient amplitude over a certain bandwidth. Plus having the amplifier power to produce and sustain that, and a driver that's going to continue to resemble a piston while it delivers it.

I suppose that is easier to achieve with a well-engineered large driver though, so I think I agree with you in a roundabout way.

Quite a team! I would like to blind test his ears one day... If he'll let me!

No need on my part really, i've done it before, many times!

Alan and I did one a couple of years ago with 5 phonostages. Not only did I identify when he changed the phonostage, I identified which one was which. Every time.......boring lol.

He will confirm.

Also picked out a difference in Angus's system when he hadn't told me he'd made the change or was going to. I didn't know what he'd done, but I told him something wasn't right and described why. Turned out he'd put a MK8 tonearm in with OFC wiring on instead of the PC-Triple C one. My description of what I heard matched my written evaluation of the two arms I had previously evaluated when I checked.

That was only a few weeks ago.

Angus will confirm.

Had my ears tested for my safety critical job and work and the Dr said my hearing was "in the highest bracket of test results we have through our door" don't know what that figure is...we don't get the actual graph.

They test over 200,000 people a year.

Not worried about my hearing lol

Worth bearing in mind that recordings don't generally present the drums as 'real' like you get when standing next to a drummer.  Obviously, there are exceptions but most music the drums have a place in the mix of the overall sound. Especially old recordings from back when they didn't have 16 tracks just for the drum kit.  If it's not on the recording you won't get it.

Recordings with 'real' drum sound through a system that has the ability to reproduce the kick drum properly are a bit of a double-edged sword. I know someone with an ICE system that cost more than the car it's in. That has 'slam' when you crank it and will do a good facsimile of a real kick drum when fed with something like modern blues-rock. The problem is after a while all you can focus on is that kick drum and it gets a bit wearing.

No need to be impressed, I'm just providing some evidence of previous participation.

I believe you can learn to listen critically and I don't necessarily think there is anything "golden eared" about it. It's just practice and experience.

A refurbed Perreaux 3150b power amp, I think that was the model.
Quite an astonishing thing.
On some EDM tracks it was like running steeply downhill fast and repeatedly smacking straight into a brick wall.

A very brash overall sound, though, not something I'd choose to listen to for my tastes in music. An amazing thing with some genres, though.

Played through these:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115492666044?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_FZM4tpQRRy&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=kSUmXWdhTSq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I reckon these would have you swooning macca

I reckon they are stuffed well enough to be ok .... But I'm no expert.

I don't mind the looks actually.

macca How's the desert Island Troels speaker shopping going? I often get lost searching for the 'money no object' option! 🤣

I'm currently trying to decide my 'sadly budget has to be considered' options!

Yeah, so many options! It almost gets more confusing the more you look! My current favourite for my new (eventual) music room is this:
www.troelsgravesen.dk/CNO-4.htm
12" bass (can be passive or active), 8" bass, 6" mid and tweeter. Very simple, low order xovers should bring very good transparency. Not many caps either!

You can always try my Ektas sometime. Oli will be trying them (and they may not leave!), but I'm sure it would be possible to try them. It'll give you an idea how the mid/treble compares to your Electras.

I reckon you'll be be wanting something bigger though. The Ektas do bass, but I think you'd want something bigger that happily goes deeper with more weight.

Enjoy perusing!

I have a feeling there may be more Ekta mkIIs!

Probably yes. This is them in our previous house:

Shoved in a corner, near a wall behind and port firing into the sofa!

Another very close to wall behind.

That room was about 3.5m (into chimney recesses) x 3.9m. Bouncy, suspended wooden floor with cellar underneath.

I still thoughly enjoyed them in this room. They could get unruly in low 40Hzs, that was room modes and (2) subs helped to control that. A better amp would help too, they need a very firm grip! Neurochrome 686 did a stirling job.

They were much better if I could get them about 300mm from the wall behind (sofa had to move). Better bass control and improved imaging. That's pretty consistent for any speakers though.

The new music room (part of the reason for house move!) is better as they're not shoved behind a sofa. They now have about 500-600mm gap behind (although 300-400mm gap works well). New room is 3m wide and just over 5m long.

Let's see how they do in your room Oli! If you can get 300mm min behind and add some bass traps (large rolls of foam or massive cushions) in the corners that should really help too.  [My Ektas are 360mm deep, Troel's 'square' cabs are 340mm deep]

They are front ported, so that really adds flexibility.

On stands or on shelves or a unit/table. Any pictures of location?

macca my first 'go to' would be the bookshelves:
www.troelsgravesen.dk/BOOKSHELF-3WC.htm
Designed to work against the wall and shoved in any corner. Could go on stands, shelves, tables etc. Could be landscape or portrait orientation.
3 way, so the great benefit of a dedicated midrange. 8" bass, so should give decent scale too.
About £650 for full kit with standard capacitors (inc. Delivery, VAT and import tax). Only extra costs would be cabinet materials and build time.

I am concerned that other standmount options will not be optimal close to wall.  You'll always be fighting bass boom.