Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 10:59:50 GMT
Ok, i am not, but following on from a thread elsewhere on AA, i wonder what DAC could possibly replace vinyl and not leave a vinylista like me craving the needle and groove.
For Fun, Max budget £5k......What suggestions have you got.
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,624 
|
Post by optical on May 3, 2022 11:03:26 GMT
- CLICKBAIT -
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on May 3, 2022 11:13:33 GMT
The one dac I would love to hear is the LAB 12, sold by MCRU, and 2nd which could well be very good is the Acuhorn sold on ebay, Psilonaught on Wam has recently purchased one. You're fighting the inevitable Oli  |
|
dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
|
Post by dt79 on May 3, 2022 11:37:56 GMT
Blatant click bait 😂
For £5K you could probably find a second hand dCS of some description.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 11:38:57 GMT
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 11:45:06 GMT
The one dac I would love to hear is the LAB 12, sold by MCRU, and 2nd which could well be very good is the Acuhorn sold on ebay, Psilonaught on Wam has recently purchased one. You're fighting the inevitable Oli That Acuhorn uses the Soekris R-2R PCB. Same on that i already have. The output stage will be different, granted, but i am not seeing something that will make me break out the blankety blank cheque pen and book. Nor with that Lab12. pPhilips chips...no ta. 0.15% THD? nope, my phonostages are better than that |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 11:45:49 GMT
Blatant click bait 😂 For £5K you could probably find a second hand dCS of some description. Ok, lets have a look! |
|
|
|
Post by macca on May 3, 2022 11:45:55 GMT
You'd have to explain what the attraction is for vinyl.
There's no DAC that is going to make digital sound like vinyl. Vinyl's sonic signature comes from its many flaws, some of which are arguably positive (Uncorrelated noise, poor channel separation, uneven frequency response) and some negative (wow and flutter, intermodulation distortion).
Main reasons for dissatisfaction with digital - poor speakers, highly reflective room, rubbish amplifier, heavily compressed masterings. Nothing at all to do with the DAC.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 11:59:59 GMT
Main attraction: Sound quality
Main reasons for dissatisfaction with digital - poor speakers, highly reflective room, rubbish amplifier, heavily compressed masterings
Only the room interaction could be factoring IMO, and whilst it isn't highly reflective, i do get some echo, so i'll allow that one aspect, but it doesn't negativly affect vinyl?
|
|
|
|
Post by electronumpty on May 3, 2022 12:02:15 GMT
Use the 5k to go to more gigs.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 12:04:04 GMT
Use the 5k to go to more gigs. No one i want to see, unless Ray Lamontagne comes to the UK I don't have £5k BTW, its a hypothetical lol |
|
|
|
Post by macca on May 3, 2022 12:24:33 GMT
Main attraction: Sound quality Main reasons for dissatisfaction with digital - poor speakers, highly reflective room, rubbish amplifier, heavily compressed masteringsOnly the room interaction could be factoring IMO, and whilst it isn't highly reflective, i do get some echo, so i'll allow that one aspect, but it doesn't negativly affect vinyl? A lot less energy in the high frequencies, don't forget digital is flat all the way to 20Khz. I grant you this is only my pet theory but there does seem to be some correlation between people who complain about 'digital glare' and rooms with bare floors, bare walls, hardly any furnishings and zero 'clutter' - as is the style of the present times. I probably should have added 'poor gain structure' to that list too. If someone can barely get the volume control off of 'zero' with their digital source that can create problems. Otherwise it's all speaker and room, that' everything you are listening to with a digital source. It's actually too good for a lot of systems and rooms. People assume the opposite. |
|
|
|
Post by electronumpty on May 3, 2022 12:25:40 GMT
Use the 5k to go to more gigs. No one i want to see, unless Ray Lamontagne comes to the UK I don't have £5k BTW, its a hypothetical lol Give me the 5k and I'll tell you what you're missing! 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by macca on May 3, 2022 12:30:46 GMT
Use the 5k to go to more gigs. That doesn't actually buy you that many gigs at the prices these days  |
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,624
|
Post by optical on May 3, 2022 12:49:32 GMT
Surely 5k (hypothetical or not!) would be enough to bankroll some serious prototyping into a fully fledged BB-DAC with power supplies for digital, analogue and clock sections . . . .
WBT socketed outputs and a pure copper AES input . . . .
DAC only, no digital preamp nonsense, maybe switchable OS/NOS modes . . . .
You choose your favorite chip and go from there?
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,624
|
Post by optical on May 3, 2022 12:53:10 GMT
Or take an existing proven implementation of said favorite chip (board and input) and go to town on the power sections and all wiring/sockets etc?
|
|
|
|
Post by brucew268 on May 3, 2022 13:07:02 GMT
The one dac I would love to hear is the LAB 12, sold by MCRU, and 2nd which could well be very good is the Acuhorn sold on ebay, Psilonaught on Wam has recently purchased one. You're fighting the inevitable Oli  I demo'd the Lab12 opposite my Calyx DAC and didn't hear real difference, though I expected to. My Calyx has the DC input cap upgraded and a nice LPS (inspired by the Studer900's PSU).
I'd be curious about the Holo Spring KTS, or Holo May Level 2, or Acuhorn, or maybe look at the Rockna Wavelight.
I had been curious about the Abbas Audio DAC's but the fact that Psilonaught moved on within a few months and preferred the Acuhorn was interesting. I did find Abbas' discussion of chips interesting here: www.abbasaudio.com/en/buyinfo/ |
|
|
|
Post by misterc on May 3, 2022 13:13:31 GMT
Personally before looking at more on a dac pay for a acoustitain to measure and look at the room first. I personally would still look at a better transport first before the dac.
Or convert the garage to a listening room and move the workshop in the little room.
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on May 3, 2022 13:30:06 GMT
I wouldn't remotely consider paying an acoustician, you're talking thousands.
worth it for a professional installation but not at home as there's far too many limits on what can be done both in terms of cost, WAF, and what any 'normal' person is prepared to do to their own house which is primarily intended as a place of domestic bliss and not a mastering suite.
Just some common sense and basic principles applied judiciously is all that is needed. I solved the admittedly fairly minor problems with my room with a very small amount of dedicated treatment.
DACs are not the answer to anything, folks. I could go out and buy an expensive DAC tomorrow, I don't because there is absolutely no point. DACs are not pickup cartridges. I'm not saying they all sound identical, but there's no big differences or lifted veils to be had in that area.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on May 3, 2022 13:51:16 GMT
My own experience, which I suspect is totally irrelevant to Oli, is that obsessing about the latest, bestest DAC technologies is meaningless in musical terms. Over the last few years I've had a whole range of DACs, and frankly the correlation of enjoyment with cost or newness or technology type is minimal if it exists at all. Just find one you like the sound of, and spend the bulk of the money to ... .... convert the garage to a listening room and move the workshop in the little room. Honestly, just get yourself a nice listening room and forget all the technocrap. |
|
|
|
Post by firebottle on May 3, 2022 13:52:00 GMT
The one dac I would love to hear is the LAB 12, sold by MCRU, and 2nd which could well be very good is the Acuhorn sold on ebay, Psilonaught on Wam has recently purchased one. You're fighting the inevitable Oli I demo'd the Lab12 opposite my Calyx DAC and didn't hear real difference, though I expected to. My Calyx has the DC input cap upgraded and a nice LPS (inspired by the Studer900's PSU).
I'd be curious about the Holo Spring KTS, or Holo May Level 2, or Acuhorn, or maybe look at the Rockna Wavelight.
I had been curious about the Abbas Audio DAC's but the fact that Psilonaught moved on within a few months and preferred the Acuhorn was interesting. I did find Abbas' discussion of chips interesting here: www.abbasaudio.com/en/buyinfo/ |
|
|
|
Post by firebottle on May 3, 2022 13:54:44 GMT
I have the Holo Spring 3 KTE which Oli has heard, at a quick DAC off very recently.
Pretty much equal to the Soekris with proper LPS.
I don't think 5K is going to give much if any improvement.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikeyb on May 3, 2022 14:06:46 GMT
Looking at your vinyl setup I'd say a Raspberry Pi4 with an R2R Dac hat would beat it comfortably 😉
😂
PS: you'll need a decent linear psu too 😜
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 14:39:48 GMT
Surely 5k (hypothetical or not!) would be enough to bankroll some serious prototyping into a fully fledged BB-DAC with power supplies for digital, analogue and clock sections . . . . WBT socketed outputs and a pure copper AES input . . . . DAC only, no digital preamp nonsense, maybe switchable OS/NOS modes . . . . You choose your favorite chip and go from there? Yeah, it absolutely would, but the issue is my principle engineers are not interested. Alone, i am but a butcher. I like the idea though. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 14:41:45 GMT
I have the Holo Spring 3 KTE which Oli has heard, at a quick DAC off very recently. Pretty much equal to the Soekris with proper LPS. I don't think 5K is going to give much if any improvement. Any improvement over the Soekris or over vinyl? Either way, if £5k isnt enough to better the Soekris or the vinyl.....well, that tells you just how "cheap" digital really isn't |
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,624
|
Post by optical on May 3, 2022 14:44:14 GMT
Surely 5k (hypothetical or not!) would be enough to bankroll some serious prototyping into a fully fledged BB-DAC with power supplies for digital, analogue and clock sections . . . . WBT socketed outputs and a pure copper AES input . . . . DAC only, no digital preamp nonsense, maybe switchable OS/NOS modes . . . . You choose your favorite chip and go from there? Yeah, it absolutely would, but the issue is my principle engineers are not interested. Alone, i am but a butcher. I like the idea though. Fair enough, gotta all be decoding the same analogue waveform as it were . . . . which incidentally vinyl does . . . but a DAC can't. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 14:45:42 GMT
Personally before looking at more on a dac pay for a acoustitain to measure and look at the room first. I personally would still look at a better transport first before the dac. Or convert the garage to a listening room and move the workshop in the little room.
I need a magician rather than an acoustitain. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 14:47:10 GMT
Yeah, it absolutely would, but the issue is my principle engineers are not interested. Alone, i am but a butcher. I like the idea though. Fair enough, gotta all be decoding the same analogue waveform as it were . . . . which incidentally vinyl does . . . but a DAC can't. A BB DAC.....leave that idea with me. I may try and tempt them with biscuits and cheese....stranger things have happened. |
|
|
|
Post by misterc on May 3, 2022 15:00:29 GMT
Personally before looking at more on a dac pay for a acoustitain to measure and look at the room first. I personally would still look at a better transport first before the dac. Or convert the garage to a listening room and move the workshop in the little room.
I need a magician rather than an acoustitain. Easy then , keep the 5K towards building a extension to the garage make it a BB ultimate upgrade.
Have a AA build meet, I would be happy to mix and dump concrete for you for the footings, pretty sure the others would help out in their way as well
A better dac will help BUT it will only highlight other areas this one doesn't, treat the symptom not thw cause
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2022 15:11:34 GMT
I need a magician rather than an acoustitain. Easy then , keep the 5K towards building a extension to the garage make it a BB ultimate upgrade.
Have a AA build meet, I would be happy to mix and dump concrete for you for the footings, pretty sure the others would help out in their way as well
A better dac will help BUT it will only highlight other areas this one doesn't, treat the symptom not thw cause
As I say, there isn't £5k in real terms, just hypothetical and yes, the room upgrade would be the obvious choice, but I wanted to see whether there was a clear upgrade path to the Soekris......which is now becoming quite obvious that there isn't. Unlike in the analogue realm where people are very quick to nail their flag to the mast, it seems very different in the digital realm. It's been very interesting |
|
