Cables - Is there a difference? I find out!
Mar 21, 2022 19:14:31 GMT
antonio, firebottle, and 3 more like this
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 21, 2022 19:14:31 GMT
Cables, the most reliable way to start an argument on any forum. Do they sound different? Is copper better than Silver, or vice Versa?! Are cables worth the money? Am I imagining what I am hearing?!
I decided to find out for myself.
I have four cables here. All 50cm in length, apart from one. They all have MPS gold plated Copper Plugs (apart from one). They all have the same solder, and they were all built by me.
Usually, I would just settle in and listen. Swapping cables and comparing the notes of what I hear. However, that's not going to do this time. I want to do it blind.
After convincing the gaffer that she can’t blow up the hifi, she agrees to swap cables for me. The cables swapped were between the DAC and the preamp. This was the only way I could realistically hide what was in the system with some strategically placed cardboard.
So, each cable was allowed a max of 2 hours of listening time. No more!
The volume control did not change, and I didn't touch a single cable once the test started. I used the same four songs only. Songs that I know really well. The gaffer decided which set of cables was numbered 1-4 and away we went.
Session 1 - Cable “3”
The first track I started with was “When I was a young girl” by Marlon Williams. Selected for the guitar and the vocals.
It was an odd sensation “going blind” and it took me a few minutes to really start to tune my consciousness out, and my ears in. Once I had done this, I started to hear the track properly.
I am used to hearing a lot of spacial information around the vocal. Artificially added by the engineer or not, it gives an impression of singing in a larger type space. I am also used to hearing a really flexible snap and twang in the guitar strings on the opening of the track.
Upon the track starting again after settling in, i Immediately thought “it isn’t there”.... The 3D space around the vocals is just not there, and the plasticity and snappy guitar strings are flat and sort of slapped out from the speaker, rather than developing into an image. The vocals lack any real conviction of sounding real, or lifelike. The guitar sounds like he has swapped to lighter gauge strings, lacking weight or body. After a few listens, the acoustic space isnt there and therefore the information that my ears are used to must be missing, or is it my mind thats usually filling in the gaps and now the doubt is clouding my audible judgement…..This is tricky.
I sit there and think “I really hope this isn't my Acoustic Revive cable” lol..
Track two is agnes Obels - Fuel to Fire.
Chosen for the opening piano notes and the harmonically rich timbral string section in the middle of the track. I am used to hearing the keys clearly thudding on the opening note, but this is now very unlike any rendition of this track i have heard. The keys play the note, and then there is a sort of one note thud…not really in time with the key being pressed. Landing like an after thought.
We get to the middle of the track and everything gets very sticky. There is a lack of separation and the harmonic interplay is now a decidedly crowded mush.
I move on, but I am really not enjoying what this cable is doing.
Next track is “Here in my Heart” - Ocean Colour Scene. Again, this is the sort of track that any device should be able to make a good fist of. Simple acoustic guitar and vocal….yet the vocals are 2D and soul-less and the guitar sounds really bland. It’s lacking organic matter in the music and it’s lost the engagement and attention that my system usually holds for me.
I decide that Cable “3” is not for me and ask the gaffer to put another cable in. I am secretly hoping that cables do make a difference at this point, or I'm gonna have a serious issue.
Cable “4”
Chelle gives me a shout to say it’s done. I walk in and play Marlon Willliams again…….Good Grief, This is VERY different to what i have just heard, and from what i am used to hearing. The separation is monumentally better than cable “3”. There is space between the strings as he plays them and the space around his vocal is massive! Bigger than I remember ever hearing it. The amount of micro and macro information is almost distracting at first, but once I adjust to the change, I start to get the sense that whilst I have a Sh#t-ton of information, the guitar isn’t as tonally “full” as i like to hear, nor is the vocal quite as organic.
It’s all a little more neutral. Not bad, and certainly not unbalanced or harsh, just tonally cooler.
I played Agnes Obel again, and wowzers…..the information levels are unreal. That keyboard thump is now absolutely in sync with the notes being played and the thump causes a syncompation.….this is now far more like what i am used to hearing. The middle of the track brings such richness in harmonic interplay that I am really shocked. The early impressions of it being a cooler sound certainly didn’t suggest that this would happen, but my word….this is inducing goosebumps. What a marked difference from cable “3”
“Here in my Heart”
The sound of the plectrum hitting the guitar strings is now absolutely clear at the start of this track. The bass drum hits, but doesn't quite carry the weight, or power i am used to hearing, but this is a lot closer to the usual presentation.
The soundstage is larger, more spaced out and more importantly there isn't any mush. The tambourine is a little splash sounding, but I am really enjoying the sound I am getting. The effects on the guitar are now really clear too. Offering a phasing sound to the notes being played. I like this a lot.
I move on to something a little more challenging…The Prodigy - Poison.
Not the best recording and certainly not audiophile fodder, but it's hard to make it sound listenable at the best of times. This cable does a half decent job of it, but the top end is a little thin and splashy and as a result it seems to harden up as the track gets a bit more “busy”
The Separation is bloody good though and certainly up there with the best cables i have heard.
Next Up Cable “2”
After listening to this cable for a few minutes, I kind of felt I knew which one it was, or i should say, which one of two. It was startlingly similar to Cable “4” Which has a not too dissimilar construction.
Tonally very similar, but with a bit more solidity to the bass. The HF were not as sweet as cable “4” which led me to believe that this was the Silver Plated 7N OCC cables I recently made.
IF cable “4” was the Sterling silver cable I also recently made for antonio, it had made me rethink a lot of the opinions I had previously held. However, I now realised that I was listening to cables and was able to at least THINK I was working out which was which from the way they sounded….which must obviously means that yes, cables DO sound different. IF i was right. I’ll also add that this wasn’t taking long either. 4 tracks and i was pretty convinced.
I didn’t go much further with this cable, and instead went to Cable “1”
Within 10 seconds of the opening track playing, I knew instantly that this was the AR with WBT plugs - My usual cable. I burst out laughing…..Chelle walked in and asked what I was laughing at. After all, she had only just walked out of the room.
I said “I am going to write down which cable I think is which, and then I want you to tell me if i am right, ok?”
Cable “1” - Acoustic Revive
Cable “2” - Green cable (Silver Plated 7NOCC)
Cable “3” - Really stiff cable, Black Jacket (Webro 100 Coax)
Cable “4” - Xangsane Sterling Silver cable
“Yes, you are correct”
I was pleased to say the least! It doesn’t matter which cable is best, it mattered that i had worked out which cable was which within 4 tracks for each one.
Whilst I realise that this may not do anything to convince the cable naysayers, who will undoubtedly call for more stringent controls being required etc, nor change the opinions of anyone else, it was nice for ME to know that i am NOT imagining what I hear. I didn’t cheat, I didn't look and I did not ask any questions of the gaffer. I just walked in and listened.
Now, before anyone goes bananas, I did this for me. I am only sharing what happened with you.
The choice between cable 2 and 4 really could have gone either way, but for the slight sweetness in the HF and mids of cable 4 and the very strong LF power in cable 2. I wouldn't have put any money on it, but i did feel fairly confident. The big thing for me was the Webro cable. It was so far behind the others. No space in the soundstage, no 3D imaging and it sounded really crowded. After the recent reports on it's performance, i really thought it would be better. It may be a system thing etc, but in my system, it will not be getting a second try.
The best thing to come out of all of this is that even without knowing, i loved the sound of the AR cable. It was the most balanced of the cables i listened to. Yes, i concede that the Xangsane Sterling silver sounded like it has more micro and macro detail, but the AR has it too, it's just not as "prominent" in the balance of the music. The vocals and guitar via the AR were far more organic. If my heart vibrates at a certain frequency, then these cables are on the same frequency. With them in the system, i can feel the music pulling on my soul and none of the other cables do this in the same way. Some don't do it at all.
The Xangsane deserve a special mention. They can be made for £80, and they sound simply wonderful. I am listening to "As Witchita falls" with them in the chain, and its really spectacular. I have heard £4K Silver cables in the past and they were not like this. Not at all. These are REALLY wonderful cables and i think Antonio has found a stunning combination of plug and cable. I will be making a pair of these to try when the 686 is built.
I decided to find out for myself.
I have four cables here. All 50cm in length, apart from one. They all have MPS gold plated Copper Plugs (apart from one). They all have the same solder, and they were all built by me.
Usually, I would just settle in and listen. Swapping cables and comparing the notes of what I hear. However, that's not going to do this time. I want to do it blind.
After convincing the gaffer that she can’t blow up the hifi, she agrees to swap cables for me. The cables swapped were between the DAC and the preamp. This was the only way I could realistically hide what was in the system with some strategically placed cardboard.
So, each cable was allowed a max of 2 hours of listening time. No more!
The volume control did not change, and I didn't touch a single cable once the test started. I used the same four songs only. Songs that I know really well. The gaffer decided which set of cables was numbered 1-4 and away we went.
Session 1 - Cable “3”
The first track I started with was “When I was a young girl” by Marlon Williams. Selected for the guitar and the vocals.
It was an odd sensation “going blind” and it took me a few minutes to really start to tune my consciousness out, and my ears in. Once I had done this, I started to hear the track properly.
I am used to hearing a lot of spacial information around the vocal. Artificially added by the engineer or not, it gives an impression of singing in a larger type space. I am also used to hearing a really flexible snap and twang in the guitar strings on the opening of the track.
Upon the track starting again after settling in, i Immediately thought “it isn’t there”.... The 3D space around the vocals is just not there, and the plasticity and snappy guitar strings are flat and sort of slapped out from the speaker, rather than developing into an image. The vocals lack any real conviction of sounding real, or lifelike. The guitar sounds like he has swapped to lighter gauge strings, lacking weight or body. After a few listens, the acoustic space isnt there and therefore the information that my ears are used to must be missing, or is it my mind thats usually filling in the gaps and now the doubt is clouding my audible judgement…..This is tricky.
I sit there and think “I really hope this isn't my Acoustic Revive cable” lol..
Track two is agnes Obels - Fuel to Fire.
Chosen for the opening piano notes and the harmonically rich timbral string section in the middle of the track. I am used to hearing the keys clearly thudding on the opening note, but this is now very unlike any rendition of this track i have heard. The keys play the note, and then there is a sort of one note thud…not really in time with the key being pressed. Landing like an after thought.
We get to the middle of the track and everything gets very sticky. There is a lack of separation and the harmonic interplay is now a decidedly crowded mush.
I move on, but I am really not enjoying what this cable is doing.
Next track is “Here in my Heart” - Ocean Colour Scene. Again, this is the sort of track that any device should be able to make a good fist of. Simple acoustic guitar and vocal….yet the vocals are 2D and soul-less and the guitar sounds really bland. It’s lacking organic matter in the music and it’s lost the engagement and attention that my system usually holds for me.
I decide that Cable “3” is not for me and ask the gaffer to put another cable in. I am secretly hoping that cables do make a difference at this point, or I'm gonna have a serious issue.
Cable “4”
Chelle gives me a shout to say it’s done. I walk in and play Marlon Willliams again…….Good Grief, This is VERY different to what i have just heard, and from what i am used to hearing. The separation is monumentally better than cable “3”. There is space between the strings as he plays them and the space around his vocal is massive! Bigger than I remember ever hearing it. The amount of micro and macro information is almost distracting at first, but once I adjust to the change, I start to get the sense that whilst I have a Sh#t-ton of information, the guitar isn’t as tonally “full” as i like to hear, nor is the vocal quite as organic.
It’s all a little more neutral. Not bad, and certainly not unbalanced or harsh, just tonally cooler.
I played Agnes Obel again, and wowzers…..the information levels are unreal. That keyboard thump is now absolutely in sync with the notes being played and the thump causes a syncompation.….this is now far more like what i am used to hearing. The middle of the track brings such richness in harmonic interplay that I am really shocked. The early impressions of it being a cooler sound certainly didn’t suggest that this would happen, but my word….this is inducing goosebumps. What a marked difference from cable “3”
“Here in my Heart”
The sound of the plectrum hitting the guitar strings is now absolutely clear at the start of this track. The bass drum hits, but doesn't quite carry the weight, or power i am used to hearing, but this is a lot closer to the usual presentation.
The soundstage is larger, more spaced out and more importantly there isn't any mush. The tambourine is a little splash sounding, but I am really enjoying the sound I am getting. The effects on the guitar are now really clear too. Offering a phasing sound to the notes being played. I like this a lot.
I move on to something a little more challenging…The Prodigy - Poison.
Not the best recording and certainly not audiophile fodder, but it's hard to make it sound listenable at the best of times. This cable does a half decent job of it, but the top end is a little thin and splashy and as a result it seems to harden up as the track gets a bit more “busy”
The Separation is bloody good though and certainly up there with the best cables i have heard.
Next Up Cable “2”
After listening to this cable for a few minutes, I kind of felt I knew which one it was, or i should say, which one of two. It was startlingly similar to Cable “4” Which has a not too dissimilar construction.
Tonally very similar, but with a bit more solidity to the bass. The HF were not as sweet as cable “4” which led me to believe that this was the Silver Plated 7N OCC cables I recently made.
IF cable “4” was the Sterling silver cable I also recently made for antonio, it had made me rethink a lot of the opinions I had previously held. However, I now realised that I was listening to cables and was able to at least THINK I was working out which was which from the way they sounded….which must obviously means that yes, cables DO sound different. IF i was right. I’ll also add that this wasn’t taking long either. 4 tracks and i was pretty convinced.
I didn’t go much further with this cable, and instead went to Cable “1”
Within 10 seconds of the opening track playing, I knew instantly that this was the AR with WBT plugs - My usual cable. I burst out laughing…..Chelle walked in and asked what I was laughing at. After all, she had only just walked out of the room.
I said “I am going to write down which cable I think is which, and then I want you to tell me if i am right, ok?”
Cable “1” - Acoustic Revive
Cable “2” - Green cable (Silver Plated 7NOCC)
Cable “3” - Really stiff cable, Black Jacket (Webro 100 Coax)
Cable “4” - Xangsane Sterling Silver cable
“Yes, you are correct”
I was pleased to say the least! It doesn’t matter which cable is best, it mattered that i had worked out which cable was which within 4 tracks for each one.
Whilst I realise that this may not do anything to convince the cable naysayers, who will undoubtedly call for more stringent controls being required etc, nor change the opinions of anyone else, it was nice for ME to know that i am NOT imagining what I hear. I didn’t cheat, I didn't look and I did not ask any questions of the gaffer. I just walked in and listened.
Now, before anyone goes bananas, I did this for me. I am only sharing what happened with you.
The choice between cable 2 and 4 really could have gone either way, but for the slight sweetness in the HF and mids of cable 4 and the very strong LF power in cable 2. I wouldn't have put any money on it, but i did feel fairly confident. The big thing for me was the Webro cable. It was so far behind the others. No space in the soundstage, no 3D imaging and it sounded really crowded. After the recent reports on it's performance, i really thought it would be better. It may be a system thing etc, but in my system, it will not be getting a second try.
The best thing to come out of all of this is that even without knowing, i loved the sound of the AR cable. It was the most balanced of the cables i listened to. Yes, i concede that the Xangsane Sterling silver sounded like it has more micro and macro detail, but the AR has it too, it's just not as "prominent" in the balance of the music. The vocals and guitar via the AR were far more organic. If my heart vibrates at a certain frequency, then these cables are on the same frequency. With them in the system, i can feel the music pulling on my soul and none of the other cables do this in the same way. Some don't do it at all.
The Xangsane deserve a special mention. They can be made for £80, and they sound simply wonderful. I am listening to "As Witchita falls" with them in the chain, and its really spectacular. I have heard £4K Silver cables in the past and they were not like this. Not at all. These are REALLY wonderful cables and i think Antonio has found a stunning combination of plug and cable. I will be making a pair of these to try when the 686 is built.
