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Post by antonio on Jan 14, 2022 8:13:29 GMT
I like my system to sound how I like it, be damned with these measurement monkey's. To be quite honest my system may measure very well, doubt it using valves, but it sounds great to me.
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Post by macca on Jan 14, 2022 8:28:21 GMT
Thats the right approach. 100% My point is there's no one who can tell you if that's how it was supposed to sound or not (apart from having the artist sit there and go, "yeah mate that's spot on actually, another cuppa?" ). I've actually been in that situation, except the artist said 'That's not how it sounds in the studio' - which prompted a major re-think although in truth I was not happy with the system anyway. It's true that you cannot get an exact replication of what the mastering engineer heard unless you copy exactly his system and room. But you don't need to do that. It's sufficient just to get into the ballpark for accurate playback, that is, to minimise the colourations imposed by the equipment and the room. The most important factor being the loudspeakers. Even an Audionote system would get close enough if it wasn't for the speakers which are woeful in terms of accuracy. The influence of distortion in electronics is massively overstated. We are not good at hearing small amounts of harmonic distortion. Once the sonic character of the recording begins to overwhelm the sonic character of the system then you are pretty much there. It's not that hard to achieve and it doesn't require spending a fortune either, just requires following some basic principles.
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Post by macca on Jan 14, 2022 8:34:50 GMT
I like my system to sound how I like it, be damned with these measurement monkey's. To be quite honest my system may measure very well, doubt it using valves, but it sounds great to me. Just because you use valve amps doesn't mean it can't be close to accurate. It just makes things a bit more complicated.
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Post by misterc on Jan 14, 2022 8:53:10 GMT
Paul McGowan should be whipped with a lightly slated slug until his slick oily ways are retificed and then shafted with a one of his god damn awful dacs sideways.
The guy typifies everything that is wrong with audio today with a big cheesy grin that would make Tony Blair whince.
Paul McGowan, the current audio Trump?
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Post by antonio on Jan 14, 2022 8:57:08 GMT
I guess he's not on your Christmas card list then Tony.
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optical
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Post by optical on Jan 14, 2022 9:11:33 GMT
My point is there's no one who can tell you if that's how it was supposed to sound or not (apart from having the artist sit there and go, "yeah mate that's spot on actually, another cuppa?" ). I've actually been in that situation, except the artist said 'That's not how it sounds in the studio' - which prompted a major re-think although in truth I was not happy with the system anyway. It's true that you cannot get an exact replication of what the mastering engineer heard unless you copy exactly his system and room. But you don't need to do that. It's sufficient just to get into the ballpark for accurate playback, that is, to minimise the colourations imposed by the equipment and the room. The most important factor being the loudspeakers. Even an Audionote system would get close enough if it wasn't for the speakers which are woeful in terms of accuracy. The influence of distortion in electronics is massively overstated. We are not good at hearing small amounts of harmonic distortion. Once the sonic character of the recording begins to overwhelm the sonic character of the system then you are pretty much there. It's not that hard to achieve and it doesn't require spending a fortune either, just requires following some basic principles. Okay, well my point was more to illustrate that you're not going to be able to do that for the majority of music you listen to! Who was that out of interest Macca? I didn't think Donald Fagen had ever been to Stoke?! Yes I wasn't knocking Audio Note per se, as you elude to the speakers are indeed what I was referencing, as they are known to colour and have some 'humps'. Transparency and neutrality will certainly help you get to the heart of the recording, and your point earlier about most recordings being pretty decent is very valid and the equipment/setup is often to blame if it doesn't sound particularly good. I think there is also a difference (where people might be mistaking one for the other) between 'revealing' and 'transparency'. They are certainly not the same, a system cannot be too transparent but it certainly can be too revealing. Symptoms of which can be fatiguing and with hyper detail. It could measure perfectly but may not be pleasant to listen to overall. I thought the same with distortion being almost a non issue now but having amps (especially) which measure better (THD) than others (both of which 'should' not be too far into the audible realm) say 0.03** vs 0.01** (not actual numbers, just an example) the clarity and transparency differences are usually not subtle and are most welcome. The biggest effect is ALWAYS the room then the speakers. In my opinion you are 60-70% always listening to a combination of the room and the speakers. Again only in my opinion, but I think the room is the vast majority of that too (unless you perhaps have some exceptionally poorly measuring speakers). I've learned this through experience having my hifi setup seriously in two wildly different rooms (acoustically). First room had no sound treatment and the speakers sounded great almost anywhere, my current room I've had to add digital EQing, acoustic treatment and the speakers, if moved maybe 2-3cm, do not sound very good at all. The sub's also require very specific placement which again interact with the room massively. In my old room I could plonk it almost anywhere (sensible) and it would sound good. Apologies to Romain for waffling/thread derailment . . . . . back to the Holo Spring and power for it!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 14, 2022 9:58:57 GMT
My point is there's no one who can tell you if that's how it was supposed to sound or not (apart from having the artist sit there and go, "yeah mate that's spot on actually, another cuppa?" ). I've actually been in that situation, except the artist said 'That's not how it sounds in the studio' - which prompted a major re-think although in truth I was not happy with the system anyway.I am surprised you took that on board macca, because for months you've been telling us that Aural memory is absolutely impossible and entirely untrustworthy, that without blind testing he wouldn't know for sure and after blind testing the results would be 50/50 at best! I am only being mischeivious
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Post by macca on Jan 14, 2022 10:24:07 GMT
I've actually been in that situation, except the artist said 'That's not how it sounds in the studio' - which prompted a major re-think although in truth I was not happy with the system anyway. I am surprised you took that on board macca , because for months you've been telling us that Aural memory is absolutely impossible and entirely untrustworthy, that without blind testing he wouldn't know for sure and after blind testing the results would be 50/50 at best! I am only being mischeivious It's a fair point though, and it's not me saying it, it's proven fact and readily demonstrable. But it relates to hearing small details and changes, not to the general presentation. We have no problem accurately recalling the 'broad strokes' sometime even after years. Small details though is at best a couple of seconds, In this case the presentations between my system and the system in the studio were so different it struck him straight away. He'd heard the finished recording played back in the studio just a couple of days previously.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 14, 2022 10:29:53 GMT
I am surprised you took that on board macca , because for months you've been telling us that Aural memory is absolutely impossible and entirely untrustworthy, that without blind testing he wouldn't know for sure and after blind testing the results would be 50/50 at best! I am only being mischeivious It's a fair point though, and it's not me saying it, it's proven fact and readily demonstrable. But it relates to hearing small details and changes, not to the general presentation. We have no problem accurately recalling the 'broad strokes' sometime even after years. Small details though is at best a couple of seconds, In this case the presentations between my system and the system in the studio were so different it struck him straight away. He'd heard the finished recording played back in the studio just a couple of days previously. I'm only pulling your leg. I was laughing as I wrote it 😂
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Post by romain on Jan 14, 2022 11:16:02 GMT
Apologies to Romain for waffling/thread derailment . . . . . back to the Holo Spring and power for it! No worries it's great reading you guys Still interested by power treatment experiences indeed
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Post by macca on Jan 14, 2022 11:42:09 GMT
It's a fair point though, and it's not me saying it, it's proven fact and readily demonstrable. But it relates to hearing small details and changes, not to the general presentation. We have no problem accurately recalling the 'broad strokes' sometime even after years. Small details though is at best a couple of seconds, In this case the presentations between my system and the system in the studio were so different it struck him straight away. He'd heard the finished recording played back in the studio just a couple of days previously. I'm only pulling your leg. I was laughing as I wrote it 😂 Yeah you said but I thought the point needed making for the wider audience anyways. Maybe not. I don't know.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 14, 2022 14:55:46 GMT
I'm only pulling your leg. I was laughing as I wrote it 😂 Yeah you said but I thought the point needed making for the wider audience anyways. Maybe not. I don't know. Either way, it's ok.
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Post by romain on Jan 24, 2022 1:11:23 GMT
Funnily enough, the Dynaudio Special Forty are on my list of stand mounts to try and listen to as replacements this spring. One thing I’ve learnt in the last year is I couldn’t do without Townshend bars (or podium if you can stretch to it). Transformational in my system that has made me question whether I even need new speakers. Time will tell on that one. I own the Dynaudio S40 for more than a year, I also own the Susvara so I can compare. I have compared the S40 to other speakers this weekend and tried them on other kind of amps. With my very straight SS AHB2 amp the S40 are not the most transparent speakers, compared to the Susvara I feel like i'm missing some of the fine details (maybe partially due to my heavily treated room). There is not a lot of air between the instruments. But when I tried them with some warm and round tube or hybrid amp, that's a completely different experience, they really were magical, they are very good to make you enjoy the harmonics in the music, acoustic music worked very well on it, the guitar timber was very full and real. There is no doubt now that I need tubes to enjoy the full potential of the S40. The S40 go low on bass (that can be diminished by putting the included foam in the bass reflex), they don’t have a lot of the highest frequencies so the sound is already round, which give this impression of lack of details, trying to feed them analytical sound will not give a good result : you lose the details and it’s a bit boring, it’s better to feed them something that is already a bit like them : cosy, warm, round (with some bass), make them vibrate with the harmonics. I had goosebumps for the first time with the S40 when trying them with a tube amp half the price of my SS amp
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