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Post by rexton on Sept 26, 2021 16:11:32 GMT
OK, as you all know I've stuck to vinyl through the years, I do own a CD player. I've been thinking about dipping my toes over to the digital side. I'm only interested in getting the best from CD's. I'm not bothered about steaming or playing specialist file formats. I only intend to listen to CD's and maybe some music via the laptop through a USB cable. I'm also not interested in getting any more complex than that. Vinyl will still be my primary source, so, with this knowledge I'd like some suggestions for a DAC + maybe a master clock. Whilst budget isn't usually an issue i'd like to drop £2-3K tops. I've held off so far as there seems to be a proliferation of DACS with ever better specs. Any ideas chaps?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 16:57:42 GMT
OK, as you all know I've stuck to vinyl through the years, I do own a CD player. I've been thinking about dipping my toes over to the digital side. I'm only interested in getting the best from CD's. I'm not bothered about steaming or playing specialist file formats. I only intend to listen to CD's and maybe some music via the laptop through a USB cable. I'm also not interested in getting any more complex than that. Vinyl will still be my primary source, so, with this knowledge I'd like some suggestions for a DAC + maybe a master clock. Whilst budget isn't usually an issue i'd like to drop £2-3K tops. I've held off so far as there seems to be a proliferation of DACS with ever better specs. Any ideas chaps? I'd be buying used. No doubt about that, but I've never stuck it out with any DAC other than my modded Soekris. Totally unlikely to get an early one like mine and then it would need fettling too. Personally, I have never liked any DAC with a Sabre chip, and AKM ones have been hit and miss. Has to be R-2R for me. Proper too, not of that chip type Sh#t. 😉 |
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Post by misterc on Sept 26, 2021 17:28:29 GMT
LOL
Even the Rockna Wavedream strugged against my chip dac, having 2 billion 0.005% resistors is great BUT finding a recosntruction filter that delivers linearity in a ladder dac, now thats's something else.
The Terminator + was half way house, but it was a bit safe, bottom less depth though and they all respomd to DDC, as I mentioned before even the Holo May KTE which has a very low jitter count, below my UPV range (just) still benefits form a DDC in all of the systems I use.
Plus the fact you guys are still scratching the surface of what is really obtainable imho
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Post by misterc on Sept 26, 2021 17:32:00 GMT
OK, as you all know I've stuck to vinyl through the years, I do own a CD player. I've been thinking about dipping my toes over to the digital side. I'm only interested in getting the best from CD's. I'm not bothered about steaming or playing specialist file formats. I only intend to listen to CD's and maybe some music via the laptop through a USB cable. I'm also not interested in getting any more complex than that. Vinyl will still be my primary source, so, with this knowledge I'd like some suggestions for a DAC + maybe a master clock. Whilst budget isn't usually an issue i'd like to drop £2-3K tops. I've held off so far as there seems to be a proliferation of DACS with ever better specs. Any ideas chaps? Andy
Holo Spring 3 stage 3 and a good transport will see off the vinyl very well.
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Post by gninnam on Sept 26, 2021 17:43:36 GMT
OK, as you all know I've stuck to vinyl through the years, I do own a CD player. I've been thinking about dipping my toes over to the digital side. I'm only interested in getting the best from CD's. I'm not bothered about steaming or playing specialist file formats. I only intend to listen to CD's and maybe some music via the laptop through a USB cable. I'm also not interested in getting any more complex than that. Vinyl will still be my primary source, so, with this knowledge I'd like some suggestions for a DAC + maybe a master clock. Whilst budget isn't usually an issue i'd like to drop £2-3K tops. I've held off so far as there seems to be a proliferation of DACS with ever better specs. Any ideas chaps? Andy
Holo Spring 3 stage 3 and a good transport will see off the vinyl very well.
Why does it have to 'see off the vinyl'? Why can't he enjoy both? |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 17:44:09 GMT
LOL Even the Rockna Wavedream strugged against my chip dac, having 2 billion 0.005% resistors is great BUT finding a recosntruction filter that delivers linearity in a ladder dac, now thats's something else. The Terminator + was half way house, but it was a bit safe, bottom less depth though and they all respomd to DDC, as I mentioned before even the Holo May KTE which has a very low jitter count, below my UPV range (just) still benefits form a DDC in all of the systems I use. Plus the fact you guys are still scratching the surface of what is really obtainable imho Tony, you have to remember that we don't have access to £10k-100k DACs and the like, so our experience of what we have heard is formed in the lowly end of the scale with the ultimate goal of getting the best performing equipment we can for the money we have. Anything I have had here with a chip in it has been Sh#t, except the PecanPi which was remarkably listenable and still a damn good DAC for the money. Thats a non-negotiable statement BTW. How much are you/would you be selling your highly modified "Chip DAC" for? i bet its way over the £2k budget posted by Andrew. A bog standard one is £2.5k! Are R-2R DACs perfect? No! but we are listening to these gadgets and for a superb balance of detail, transparency and MUSICALITY, i'd take the Soekris over any other DAC i have heard, or could possibly afford. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 17:46:13 GMT
Andy Holo Spring 3 stage 3 and a good transport will see off the vinyl very well. Why does it have to 'see off the vinyl'? Why can't he enjoy both? Absolutely spot on. Having a bit of superb replay in both/all formats is the goal, not a choice. |
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Post by rexton on Sept 26, 2021 17:46:56 GMT
OK, as you all know I've stuck to vinyl through the years, I do own a CD player. I've been thinking about dipping my toes over to the digital side. I'm only interested in getting the best from CD's. I'm not bothered about steaming or playing specialist file formats. I only intend to listen to CD's and maybe some music via the laptop through a USB cable. I'm also not interested in getting any more complex than that. Vinyl will still be my primary source, so, with this knowledge I'd like some suggestions for a DAC + maybe a master clock. Whilst budget isn't usually an issue i'd like to drop £2-3K tops. I've held off so far as there seems to be a proliferation of DACS with ever better specs. Any ideas chaps? Andy
Holo Spring 3 stage 3 and a good transport will see off the vinyl very well.
That's without a master clock then. |
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Post by misterc on Sept 26, 2021 17:51:35 GMT
Andy
Holo Spring 3 stage 3 and a good transport will see off the vinyl very well.
Why does it have to 'see off the vinyl'? Why can't he enjoy both? Figure of speech  , back when vinyl ruled the world, digital was a dirty word, now the cost to obtain a good sound is far more obtainable for most people than a good vinyl set up, less the hassle. Fully appreciate if you have 2K plus albums then it is a different ball game all togther. Vinyl can still sound superb that is not the crux these days, its more exploring music and gaining insight this is the feedback from the custromers who in he last 24 months have really driven this side of audio. The other big feedback points from them is more choice, less outlay and less farting around. I still have guys that use CD's as well, so it will not be going anywhere that soon
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Post by misterc on Sept 26, 2021 17:55:30 GMT
That's without a master clock then.
When you hear it you will understand just how good it is for the outlay, if you have customers who wish to obtain what they feel is higher up the ladder then yes, but always remember your system's strongest point is the weakest link.
An even handed well balanced system will pay dividends
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Post by bigbird on Sept 26, 2021 20:52:14 GMT
Id be looking at denafrips mate. The best one you can afford. I paid 3k for my Terminator 2 and sonically it’s blown away my highly modded 301, BB3 and Art 9 .
I’m yet to hear a dac in the realms of real world money that’s as listenable as this . It did take about 2-3 weeks of being on 24/7 to settle and really shine. I haven’t played vinyl since then so that tells a story .
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Post by rexton on Sept 26, 2021 20:55:04 GMT
Id be looking at denafrips mate. The best one you can afford. I paid 3k for my Terminator 2 and sonically it’s blown away my highly modded 301, BB3 and Art 9 . I’m yet to hear a dac in the realms of real world money that’s as listenable as this . It did take about 2-3 weeks of being on 24/7 to settle and really shine. I haven’t played vinyl since then so that tells a story . That's a shame, especially after you spent so long putting the whole thing together. Still, I suppose that's testamement to how good DAC's are getting. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 21:11:00 GMT
Id be looking at denafrips mate. The best one you can afford. I paid 3k for my Terminator 2 and sonically it’s blown away my highly modded 301, BB3 and Art 9 . I’m yet to hear a dac in the realms of real world money that’s as listenable as this . It did take about 2-3 weeks of being on 24/7 to settle and really shine. I haven’t played vinyl since then so that tells a story . Makes me sad 🤣 Seriously though, it's a big wedge on something completely unheard!.....I'd be tempted 👍 |
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Post by bigbird on Sept 26, 2021 21:14:48 GMT
Id be looking at denafrips mate. The best one you can afford. I paid 3k for my Terminator 2 and sonically it’s blown away my highly modded 301, BB3 and Art 9 . I’m yet to hear a dac in the realms of real world money that’s as listenable as this . It did take about 2-3 weeks of being on 24/7 to settle and really shine. I haven’t played vinyl since then so that tells a story . That's a shame, especially after you spent so long putting the whole thing together. Still, I suppose that's testamement to how good DAC's are getting. Exactly mate . The only way I can describe it is that whenever I played vinyl after the T2 it was similar to plugging in an old phonostage after listening to a BB3 . Yes it sounds good but there is less depth and detail, soundstage shrinks etc. Don’t worry I’m not done with analogue yet but I do think I need to spend some serious dough on a cartridge to get anyway near what my digital does . The art 9 or anything in the 1000 quid bracket just can’t deliver this level of playback unfortunately |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 28, 2021 12:51:04 GMT
very happy with my jolida and black ice pimped dacs , they are very cost effective . they sell in hours so must be good !!
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 12:55:46 GMT
www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97Jolida's are an excellent suggestion, I've had a couple and one was well modded with upgraded caps and tubes, lovely things. However I will offer this as it's within your budget and with all the upgrades (ODAM caps and upgraded clocks) it will embarrass most things under 2K I would wager. It's also a tube and cap rollers dream. Super easy to switch both in and out within seconds.
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Post by antonio on Sept 29, 2021 16:50:49 GMT
What about one of these www.aliexpress.com/item/4001093438770.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.36c52e0e159IZ2Of course you will be purchasing a Mutec as well, after reading this forum, so you won't be needing usb, which you are not getting with the above dac, so not paying for something you don't need. After reading a few bits and pieces on Lite, they have a very good reputation for building R2R dacs |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 29, 2021 17:59:42 GMT
Just get the Spring, jitter around -150db, no clock needed.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2021 20:21:16 GMT
Just get the Spring, jitter around -150db, no clock needed. Tried a Mutec, Simon? |
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Post by misterc on Sept 29, 2021 21:34:36 GMT
Even the holo may likes a clock. happy to illustrate and that has even lower jitter. Best sound imho is o/s not engaged, PLL switched off and nos used with a clock in circuit.
Spring 3 KTE, as I have mentioned before, would be most peoples end game dac if you can't justify a May
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2021 21:47:10 GMT
Even the holo may likes a clock. happy to illustrate and that has even lower jitter. Best sound imho is o/s not engaged, PLL switched off and nos used with a clock in circuit. Spring 3 KTE, as I have mentioned before, would be most peoples end game dac if you can't justify a May Illustrate....please! |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 29, 2021 22:08:59 GMT
I look forward to you showing a measurement showing pll vs external clock and explaining how more noise and jitter sounds better.
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Post by misterc on Sept 29, 2021 23:21:05 GMT
The best measured jitter clock currently available in a commerical Audiob dac is inside the MSB select dac 34fs. The Mutec ref 10 sec120 is on average 250% more accurate.
I will also clarify my illustration of that statement of inviting you to compare the may with or without a clock in the circuit aes circuit personally
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 30, 2021 17:52:53 GMT
If only the raw accuracy of the clock was freed from the bounds of flip flops, latches, and having to traverse a cable, multiple sockets, two pcb and the die of the dac chip.
Simple enough question, what has worse jitter, May with pll on, or May with pll off and a fancy clock plugged into it?
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Post by misterc on Sept 30, 2021 18:18:51 GMT
If only the raw accuracy of the clock was freed from the bounds of flip flops, latches, and having to traverse a cable, multiple sockets, two pcb and the die of the dac chip. Simple enough question, what has worse jitter, May with pll on, or May with pll off and a fancy clock plugged into it? Simple enough answer, may with PLL off and clock into it based on the experiance we have this great dac. I would suggest the majority of the owners will be happy with its performance it is one of the most appealling dac's under 10£K yes
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Post by jazzcat on Oct 27, 2021 8:30:32 GMT
Hi rexton, have you made any decisions yet? |
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Post by stryder5 on Oct 27, 2021 10:19:12 GMT
I think that given your sources outlined your budget is way too high and probably wasted!
Try before you buy.
Puritè Audio will send you a Soncoz SGD1 keep it and pay or send it back.
I think this fits in with your plans better.
Gary
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Post by lurch on Oct 27, 2021 15:09:51 GMT
That's a shame, especially after you spent so long putting the whole thing together. Still, I suppose that's testamement to how good DAC's are getting. Exactly mate . The only way I can describe it is that whenever I played vinyl after the T2 it was similar to plugging in an old phonostage after listening to a BB3 . Yes it sounds good but there is less depth and detail, soundstage shrinks etc. Don’t worry I’m not done with analogue yet but I do think I need to spend some serious dough on a cartridge to get anyway near what my digital does . The art 9 or anything in the 1000 quid bracket just can’t deliver this level of playback unfortunately I have a Koetsu Black here I might be persauded to part with for sensible money if you fancy having a play with it first?? I had a black here a while back and it made my Hana ML seem 2 dimensional by comparison, mind you having caught the Koetsu bug I'm now running an RSP. |
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Post by nonuffin on Oct 27, 2021 18:17:42 GMT
Not long ago I spent just over 3 grand on a BMC UltraDAC and that has been the biggest outlay in my life on a single component.
In all probability there are DACs out there that will best it for sure, but I cannot find fault with it and it doesn't annoy me in any way sound-wise which is a revelation to me and I can moan plenty believe me when something doesn't sound right.
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Post by rexton on Oct 27, 2021 19:23:56 GMT
Still not made my mind up. I really should get some research done instead of head in sand syndrome.
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