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Post by sq225917 on Feb 27, 2022 14:10:24 GMT
Even at 2.5k you're not out of the ball park for low volume hand-built in lovely cases.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 27, 2022 16:06:44 GMT
The Topping pre 90 does -120db thd and snr and is £600 with full remote. The benchmark la4 does -125db thd and better than -135db snr, and is £2,900 with touchscreen and full remote control. How does the BA2 measure up, better than the Topping? Bruno's diy bpbp comes in at -110db for thd and snr and that's £90 for the main pcb, add chassis, remote and pot and you're at about £700 parts cost. If that was a retail item you'd be looking at about 2.5k Similarly the Hattor balanced remote unit with buffers ranges from about 1300 to 2100 and that's with a bloody lovely custom extruded chassis and display. Lots of players in this field from very cheap to 2.5k all with pedigree. Were I replacing my bpbp I'd struggle to see past the Topping All good points, Simon. However, those preamps do not operate in the same way as the BT2, at least not from what i have read/seen. The BT2 isn't a conventional preamp. It has dual buffers on each channel. One for the incoming signal, one for the outgoing signal. This was deliberate. We wanted to create a truly universal preamp. One that could be used with even the most strangest amplifiers and sources. From what i know, none of the aforementioned have that? I may be wrong. The other thing to note is that the BT2 is not stuffed with a SMPS. Something i have repeatedly demonstrated to be audible inferior to a proper custom made LPSU. There's no relays, no SMD (apart from the opamps) no Brass, no noisy electronics running screens....no digital volume chips either. The BT2 is a purist design that incorporates all of the things we have found work best (IMO) in the audio path. We could shell out for fancy casework, like that found on the Hattor, but i don't want to. The measurements are (in theory) right up there with the Benchmark's and Toppings of this world, In fact, i could dare to suggest that they could be better in some areas, but i would seek to have these figures verified independently before I made such claims. In theory the THD+N is 0.000016% at 1Khz. SNR isn't something we have measured yet, but we don't use A-weighting because it's bullshit. That makes our numbers not really comparative, but i would be willing to submit the BT2 for testing if someone wants to do it.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 27, 2022 21:05:07 GMT
I'd consider smt, with no legs to be pretty damn purist. You're opamps are smt.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 27, 2022 21:23:54 GMT
I'd consider smt, with no legs to be pretty damn purist. You're opamps are smt. I know the opamps are SMD lol....I have to solder them in!
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Post by antonio on Feb 27, 2022 21:56:44 GMT
There is no need to charge the earth for your builds, but if you look on the NVA forum, Savvypaul is open regarding his parts cost to his selling price, might be worth you having a look. I dont charge the earth, never have and will continue to do what I believe in. However, I have paid more for things than originally estimated, so a slight adjustment will be required. Thankfully, it's not drastic. I know you don't over charge, but I would agree with Simon, you are most probably under charging, and by a decent percentage.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 27, 2022 23:31:29 GMT
I dont charge the earth, never have and will continue to do what I believe in. However, I have paid more for things than originally estimated, so a slight adjustment will be required. Thankfully, it's not drastic. I know you don't over charge, but I would agree with Simon, you are most probably under charging, and by a decent percentage. The price is being reviewed as there are things that cost more than I estimated. As I say, it's not going to be hugely different, but it won't be less lol
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 27, 2022 23:47:36 GMT
I just priced someone up for a Paradise today. First time I've not had the parts lying round.
The bom is now over £1100... that's gone up over £200 in 12 months.
Tx resistors have gone up $72 for a set of 12....
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 28, 2022 7:13:39 GMT
I just priced someone up for a Paradise today. First time I've not had the parts lying round. The bom is now over £1100... that's gone up over £200 in 12 months. Tx resistors have gone up $72 for a set of 12.... Everything has gone a bit pricey hasn't it.
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Post by misterc on Feb 28, 2022 11:14:15 GMT
Just make two models Oli call that oh natural and then design a proper one. Totally agree 'A'weighting is only use by manufcturers to make products look good imho been that way since the dawn of time almost. Easy to test with or without weightings.
Op amps these days can be good, especially if you know what REALLY matters with signal conditioning and how to treat the pathways and rail supplies. I do use op amps in some of my designs BUT not for signal use, mainly for voltage stabilisation circuits/ adc work and PDN's. They can sound good no question. But for me I can 'hear' them especially a couple of the most popularly used audio ones.
The key is understanding circuit board layout, return pathways, tight rail supplies, veer placement, and SIGNAL lines in & out especially considered.
fully discrete smt can be pretty stunning, however it takes time to create a DECENT circuit that really delivers and can be incorporated corrected into a specific enclosure. Thats the time taker imho.
Also a quality volume control ciruit may use a ladder dac style with 0.005% thin metal film resistors you never know..........................
Nice work between you and Angus Oli
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 13:41:34 GMT
Ok.... Volume knob choices......No1 or No2
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optical
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Post by optical on Mar 1, 2022 13:49:04 GMT
numero uno (1 sir).
Super clean, I don't mind either to be honest but no2 has a slightly 'Grundig' early 80's ghetto-blaster vibe to it (nothing wrong with that of course). no1 looks a bit more modern to me.
Just my opinion of course.
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Post by brucew268 on Mar 1, 2022 13:58:42 GMT
I agree defo No.1
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 14:18:16 GMT
numero uno (1 sir). Super clean, I don't mind either to be honest but no2 has a slightly 'Grundig' early 80's ghetto-blaster vibe to it (nothing wrong with that of course). no1 looks a bit more modern to me. Just my opinion of course. Funnily enough No2 didn't look "old Stylee" until i put the other knobs on! Looks more modern, a bit sleeker too
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Post by antonio on Mar 1, 2022 14:23:35 GMT
Number 1.
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Post by pete on Mar 1, 2022 14:49:57 GMT
Number 1 for me too
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Post by pete on Mar 1, 2022 14:50:09 GMT
Number 1 for me too
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Post by electronumpty on Mar 1, 2022 14:50:19 GMT
No1 has antlers🤔
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 14:52:01 GMT
This is all I see 🤣🤣
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Post by stryder5 on Mar 1, 2022 15:06:07 GMT
Number 1
Gary
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Post by macca on Mar 1, 2022 15:08:52 GMT
The won't be on the finished product because they would make it too deer.
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Post by macca on Mar 1, 2022 15:09:20 GMT
I like the number 1 knobs.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 15:18:38 GMT
Unanimous so far. Thats pretty decisive lol
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 1, 2022 15:20:33 GMT
No 1 ....
(Avalon engraved into the front panel in really nice italic / joint up type writing would be gorgeous too)
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Mar 1, 2022 15:23:12 GMT
I’d say no. 1 too.
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 15:36:37 GMT
No 1 .... (Avalon engraved into the front panel in really nice italic / joint up type writing would be gorgeous too) Can't do that Rob. There is a hole in the front panel for a toggle switch which is now adapted to fit the sensor for the remote control. Thats why its got a black smoked acrylic badge. It would have been cheaper to engrave the logo directly on the front panel but i think this actually looks better. The colour contast is quite pleasing to me.
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Post by electronumpty on Mar 1, 2022 15:39:21 GMT
The won't be on the finished product because they would make it too deer. Banned for a month for that one!!
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 1, 2022 16:06:42 GMT
The won't be on the finished product because they would make it too deer. and 2 deer = 4 antlers (I'll get mi coat) ......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2022 16:26:55 GMT
Number 1.5 for me. I like the style of number 1, but they are missing a reference line, so you can see what level the volume is set at before you power on etc.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 1, 2022 16:29:06 GMT
Number 1.5 for me. I like the style of number 1, but they are missing a reference line, so you can see what level the volume is set at before you power on etc. I could put a little dent in for this purpose
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Post by optical on Mar 1, 2022 17:53:31 GMT
Number 1.5 for me. I like the style of number 1, but they are missing a reference line, so you can see what level the volume is set at before you power on etc. Very good point, I absolutely concur.
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