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Post by stevew on Jun 15, 2021 13:44:31 GMT
He gets this one spot on
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 15, 2021 15:03:45 GMT
Yip
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Post by macca on Jun 15, 2021 16:03:43 GMT
it's not stupid money either which is good. But Darko. Just can't take him seriously.
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Post by stevew on Jun 15, 2021 16:14:15 GMT
If you want to buy one in the UK, then the price has crept up to £800 through Willowtree audio. You might be cheaper going through Singapore, but it’s all so much of a faff these days. The best compliment I can give the dac is that I don’t even think about it any more.
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 15, 2021 17:18:32 GMT
That's a good review from Darko, loving his less tweaky bent recently.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 15, 2021 18:10:57 GMT
His comment on metalic sheen (artifice) in the upper kids/lower HF section is EXACTLY what I have been hearing from Sigma DACs for years.
It why none have ever made me question vinyl.
The Soekris does that trick too. It removes it BUT only when you put a LPSU on it.
Seriously, I'm very happy to see Darko finally make a video I agree with.
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Post by macca on Jun 16, 2021 6:06:13 GMT
he talks about the differences between the DACs like they were fine wines. When he mentions the name of the DAC you could overdub the name of a wine and it would still work.
I would like to see him identify between these DACs blind, if he can do that then he would have some credibility for me. With his resources he could easily arrange that, so why doesn't he? Once he's done that he can go on to identify when his little weight is on top of the DAC and when it isn't.
It's not easy being the only sceptic in town but someone's got to do it. Like John Wayne in 'Rio Bravo.'
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Post by antonio on Jun 16, 2021 6:20:19 GMT
Dirty job but someone's gotta do it Macca. Don't necessarily agree with blind listening, for me it would feel very strange and I could imagine it would throw me somehow! That's not to say you are not correct, and by rights you should know which is which, especially if you can hear the difference distinctly.
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Post by firebottle on Jun 16, 2021 6:58:20 GMT
I have bought another R-2R dac (I know, what am I like?), a Soekris 1321, the baby of the range. It is classed as the entry unit because it only has RCA output, no balanced XLR. However the performance is not entry level, the resolution is amazing. I was hearing new detail in Hotel California on CD, how many times have I listened to that?
There are distinct differences between the Soekris and the Pegasus, the Pegasus would probably suit a vinyl lover expanding into digital better as it has a 'warmer' presentation. My guess is the differences are due to the audio buffer/output stages (to a lesser degree) and the filtering used. More playing needed.
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Post by macca on Jun 16, 2021 7:42:46 GMT
Dirty job but someone's gotta do it Macca. Don't necessarily agree with blind listening, for me it would feel very strange and I could imagine it would throw me somehow! That's not to say you are not correct, and by rights you should know which is which, especially if you can hear the difference distinctly. If you really want to know if there actually is a difference then you have to eliminate the knowledge of which one you are listening to since just having that knowledge will alter your perception. Psychoacoustics is a bitch. It may be that there are subtle differences (and that's the most there can possibly be) between these DACs, I don't deny that for a second. Discriminating between them by listening blind is the only way to prove it.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 16, 2021 8:16:41 GMT
he talks about the differences between the DACs like they were fine wines. When he mentions the name of the DAC you could overdub the name of a wine and it would still work. I would like to see him identify between these DACs blind, if he can do that then he would have some credibility for me. With his resources he could easily arrange that, so why doesn't he? Once he's done that he can go on to identify when his little weight is on top of the DAC and when it isn't. It's not easy being the only sceptic in town but someone's got to do it. Like John Wayne in 'Rio Bravo.' Your scepticism is well placed, Macca. There are a lot of people in this game that make hugely unsubstantiated claims and then there are those that take "technically possible" claims and build a hifi empire from it. Questioning what you're told is an essential tool in weeding out the bullshit. However, where R-2R is concerned, I'm unequivocally convinced by its ability to not impart that artifice on the sound. At one one point, Darko was quite obviously receiving favourable pricing, or getting his pockets lined by Roon, Hegel and a few other companies and his lack of disclosure seriously turned me off his videos. I see he is now acknowledging his sponsors.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 16, 2021 8:17:44 GMT
he talks about the differences between the DACs like they were fine wines. When he mentions the name of the DAC you could overdub the name of a wine and it would still work. I would like to see him identify between these DACs blind, if he can do that then he would have some credibility for me. With his resources he could easily arrange that, so why doesn't he? Once he's done that he can go on to identify when his little weight is on top of the DAC and when it isn't. It's not easy being the only sceptic in town but someone's got to do it. Like John Wayne in 'Rio Bravo.' Your scepticism is well placed, Macca. There are a lot of people in this game that make hugely unsubstantiated claims and then there are those that take "technically possible" claims and build a hifi empire from it. Questioning what you're told is an essential tool in weeding out the bullshit. However, where R-2R is concerned, I'm unequivocally convinced by its ability to not impart that artifice on the sound. At one one point, Darko was quite obviously receiving favourable pricing, or getting his pockets lined by Roon, Hegel and a few other companies and his lack of disclosure seriously turned me off his videos. I see he is now acknowledging his sponsors.
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Post by stevew on Jun 16, 2021 9:44:02 GMT
I have bought another R-2R dac (I know, what am I like?), a Soekris 1321, the baby of the range. It is classed as the entry unit because it only has RCA output, no balanced XLR. However the performance is not entry level, the resolution is amazing. I was hearing new detail in Hotel California on CD, how many times have I listened to that? There are distinct differences between the Soekris and the Pegasus, the Pegasus would probably suit a vinyl lover expanding into digital better as it has a 'warmer' presentation. My guess is the differences are due to the audio buffer/output stages (to a lesser degree) and the filtering used. More playing needed. I hope we get the opportunity to compare these two with an Ares ii. I suspect that the Ares will be similar to the Pegasus..
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 16, 2021 10:22:44 GMT
I have bought another R-2R dac (I know, what am I like?), a Soekris 1321, the baby of the range. It is classed as the entry unit because it only has RCA output, no balanced XLR. However the performance is not entry level, the resolution is amazing. I was hearing new detail in Hotel California on CD, how many times have I listened to that? There are distinct differences between the Soekris and the Pegasus, the Pegasus would probably suit a vinyl lover expanding into digital better as it has a 'warmer' presentation. My guess is the differences are due to the audio buffer/output stages (to a lesser degree) and the filtering used. More playing needed. I hope we get the opportunity to compare these two with an Ares ii. I suspect that the Ares will be similar to the Pegasus.. No reason we can't ....we just need some freedom!!! Lol
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Post by macca on Jun 16, 2021 11:09:04 GMT
he talks about the differences between the DACs like they were fine wines. When he mentions the name of the DAC you could overdub the name of a wine and it would still work. I would like to see him identify between these DACs blind, if he can do that then he would have some credibility for me. With his resources he could easily arrange that, so why doesn't he? Once he's done that he can go on to identify when his little weight is on top of the DAC and when it isn't. It's not easy being the only sceptic in town but someone's got to do it. Like John Wayne in 'Rio Bravo.' Your scepticism is well placed, Macca. There are a lot of people in this game that make hugely unsubstantiated claims and then there are those that take "technically possible" claims and build a hifi empire from it. Questioning what you're told is an essential tool in weeding out the bullshit. However, where R-2R is concerned, I'm unequivocally convinced by its ability to not impart that artifice on the sound. At one one point, Darko was quite obviously receiving favourable pricing, or getting his pockets lined by Roon, Hegel and a few other companies and his lack of disclosure seriously turned me off his videos. I see he is now acknowledging his sponsors. But what about all those people who don't hear any 'artifice' on the sound to begin with? Are we all wrong? Hearing issues? Listening to Alan's system the other week, with the Pegasus DAC, yes, good sound, but nothing there that isn't there with the DACs I have which are both Delta-sigma designs. Is there really a difference or is it just a result of psychological cuing from the pundits - this is R-2R topology so therefore it must have some extra undefined quality to it? Not saying it doesn't, but if it does then it certainly isn't obvious to me, or to a lot of other people.
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Post by misterc on Jun 16, 2021 11:12:52 GMT
Suggestion guys, why not club together and say £100 each and pass it about, we used to do this is in the good old days if it doesnt float your boat then you should have no issue recovering your split outlay imho
Artifacts in dacs are c aused by many possibilites other than jitter, and being honest its down do sloppy design practices and cutting corners, I can knock up a DS dac on some bread board with decent enough discrete i/v stage power it via my trusty Keightsight E36313A and it will have zero grain or metallicus maximus. Pretty convinced Alan is more tha capable of this as well.
For me R2R can have a charm but ulitmately unless an MSB style format leave me lacking, but that's just me.
Alan also made a very valid observation regarding the sound, vinyl appreciators will I feel take more of a shine to them especially long term vinyl listeners. Its not just a warm thing either.
Cue 20 years ago and the fad was for NOS Philips doule crown 1541's (yawn) again the vinyl guys did like these a lot to, with such profound comments as ' Aye lad, I can listen to that new fangled digital marlarky now!' to such earth shattering gems as 'nowt to shabby'
Oh the heady halcyon days of hifi emporiums and record shops, does my LP12 sound good with the Trioka?
'Well sir, an out of phase PA system playing at 110dB through a bucket of wet sand would sound more appealling'
A joking aside a good to time to look at each other hear freqeuncy response and see if any corralations appear
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Post by antonio on Jun 16, 2021 12:06:08 GMT
This was posted on pfm, very interesting so don't give up half way through, miss the first half if you have to:
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Post by misterc on Jun 16, 2021 17:11:57 GMT
He is at grasping the basics which is more than most of the look ay my audio channel Vloggers achieve, so much more to deep dive into as well possile there is hope for this digital disciple young skywalker Did notice that the unholy one from asr (lol) seems to be camped in his followers, keeping an eye of the competition or plannig a coup via polite insurrection to the dark side
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 16, 2021 17:12:39 GMT
Long story short, buy a decent dac and it makes no difference. Not all dacs have equal quality on all their inputs though, or galvanic inaction and jitter immunity.
Plenty do though.
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Post by electronumpty on Jun 16, 2021 17:56:46 GMT
Mrs Numpty accuses me of galvanic inaction quite a lot. I reckon I'd make a top dac me... 🙂
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Post by macca on Jun 17, 2021 6:35:40 GMT
Mrs Numpty accuses me of galvanic inaction quite a lot. I reckon I'd make a top dac me... 🙂 As long as nothing gives you the jitters...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 17, 2021 8:05:48 GMT
This was posted on pfm, very interesting so don't give up half way through, miss the first half if you have to: bigbirdWatch this.....told you i wasn't mad
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Post by macca on Jun 17, 2021 16:03:21 GMT
It's funny that he thinks ten years is a long time to be into hi-fi. But he's only a youth himself I suppose.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 17, 2021 16:52:42 GMT
It's funny that he thinks ten years is a long time to be into hi-fi. But he's only a youth himself I suppose. Yea, unfortunately some of us aren't old enough to have had 30 years in service 😉
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