dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 11:01:12 GMT
Hi all, Even though I should be getting thoroughly familiar with my new BB3 and letting that burn in before making any other changes, I got impatient and bought myself a Korf Audio HS-A02 ceramic headshell and swapped my cartridge over last night. Having gone to the effort of doing that and aligning it, I then realised that the azimuth is off by a fair chunk. Listening confirms that it is indeed off - the stereo image was skewed to the right and voices and guitars sounded very diffuse (otherwise all good). I know that I can simply revert to the previous headshell (ADC LMG-1), but before doing that I wanted to get advice on what my options are if I persist with the Korf. You can see from the picture how far out it is, and that I have shimmed one side of the cartridge with a nylon washer which puts the cartridge pretty much spot on for azimuth. Indeed it sounds much better like this, although I still have a niggling feeling that voices sound a touch diffuse compared with before. Normally there is a bit of play in the headshell before you tighten up the locking collar and by applying pressure to the headshell in the relevant direction as you tighten the collar you can adjust the azimuth a touch, but the Korf has locking pins top and bottom meaning there’s no play. Is there any detriment or disadvantage to using a shim in this way? Is a nylon washer the best thing to use? There are two screws sat just behind the locking collar on the underside of the tonearm which apparently can be loosened off to allow a little bit of play to tweak the azimuth. Does anyone have experience of doing this on the Techie arm? If so, would you recommend it and based on how far out the azimuth is now, do you think the range of adjustment will be sufficient. The prospect of doing that has me nervous... Putting the ADC back on would not be a big deal, but I got the Korf after being convinced it was pretty much the best headshell available and nothing I heard last night (azimuth issues aside) leads me to doubt that view Cheers, Dan. Edit - major fail - forgot the picture, here it is
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2021 11:36:45 GMT
Hi all, Even though I should be getting thoroughly familiar with my new BB3 and letting that burn in before making any other changes, I got impatient and bought myself a Korf Audio HS-A02 ceramic headshell and swapped my cartridge over last night. Having gone to the effort of doing that and aligning it, I then realised that the azimuth is off by a fair chunk. Listening confirms that it is indeed off - the stereo image was skewed to the right and voices and guitars sounded very diffuse (otherwise all good). I know that I can simply revert to the previous headshell (ADC LMG-1), but before doing that I wanted to get advice on what my options are if I persist with the Korf. You can see from the picture how far out it is, and that I have shimmed one side of the cartridge with a nylon washer which puts the cartridge pretty much spot on for azimuth. Indeed it sounds much better like this, although I still have a niggling feeling that voices sound a touch diffuse compared with before. Normally there is a bit of play in the headshell before you tighten up the locking collar and by applying pressure to the headshell in the relevant direction as you tighten the collar you can adjust the azimuth a touch, but the Korf has locking pins top and bottom meaning there’s no play. Is there any detriment or disadvantage to using a shim in this way? Is a nylon washer the best thing to use? There are two screws sat just behind the locking collar on the underside of the tonearm which apparently can be loosened off to allow a little bit of play to tweak the azimuth. Does anyone have experience of doing this on the Techie arm? If so, would you recommend it and based on how far out the azimuth is now, do you think the range of adjustment will be sufficient. The prospect of doing that has me nervous... Putting the ADC back on would not be a big deal, but I got the Korf after being convinced it was pretty much the best headshell available and nothing I heard last night (azimuth issues aside) leads me to doubt that view Cheers, Dan. What pic? Oh dear. Thats exactly why I didn't buy one. Not having azimuth adjustment is a big No-No!! The science is solid and i am a big fan of Alex's approach, but omitting azimuth is a mistake. I wouldn't entertain the idea of using nylon washers etc, as you will just be creating a different problem and the whole purpose of that headshell is that you are having a direct contact with that specific material. I'm afraid to say I'd return it. Get an AT-MG9 if you can find one.
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Post by karma67 on Jun 12, 2021 12:14:41 GMT
Hi all, Even though I should be getting thoroughly familiar with my new BB3 and letting that burn in before making any other changes, I got impatient and bought myself a Korf Audio HS-A02 ceramic headshell and swapped my cartridge over last night. Having gone to the effort of doing that and aligning it, I then realised that the azimuth is off by a fair chunk. Listening confirms that it is indeed off - the stereo image was skewed to the right and voices and guitars sounded very diffuse (otherwise all good). I know that I can simply revert to the previous headshell (ADC LMG-1), but before doing that I wanted to get advice on what my options are if I persist with the Korf. You can see from the picture how far out it is, and that I have shimmed one side of the cartridge with a nylon washer which puts the cartridge pretty much spot on for azimuth. Indeed it sounds much better like this, although I still have a niggling feeling that voices sound a touch diffuse compared with before. Normally there is a bit of play in the headshell before you tighten up the locking collar and by applying pressure to the headshell in the relevant direction as you tighten the collar you can adjust the azimuth a touch, but the Korf has locking pins top and bottom meaning there’s no play. Is there any detriment or disadvantage to using a shim in this way? Is a nylon washer the best thing to use? There are two screws sat just behind the locking collar on the underside of the tonearm which apparently can be loosened off to allow a little bit of play to tweak the azimuth. Does anyone have experience of doing this on the Techie arm? If so, would you recommend it and based on how far out the azimuth is now, do you think the range of adjustment will be sufficient. The prospect of doing that has me nervous... Putting the ADC back on would not be a big deal, but I got the Korf after being convinced it was pretty much the best headshell available and nothing I heard last night (azimuth issues aside) leads me to doubt that view Cheers, Dan. What pic? Oh dear. Thats exactly why I didn't buy one. Not having azimuth adjustment is a big No-No!! The science is solid and i am a big fan of Alex's approach, but the is a mistake. I wouldn't entertain the idea of using nylon washers etc, as you will just be creating a different problem and the whole purpose of that headshell is that you are having a direct contact with that specific material. I'm afraid to say I'd return it. Get an AT-MG9 if you can find one. i agree,send it back.
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 12, 2021 14:32:54 GMT
Sounds like the Arm/collar aren't squared, I'm certain Alex's pins are spot on and his surfaces flat. Seems like a well designed part is highlighting a poor one.
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 12, 2021 15:04:55 GMT
Sounds like the Arm/collar aren't squared, I'm certain Alex's pins are spot on and his surfaces flat. Seems like a well designed part is highlighting a poor one. I agree, it’s more likely to be the arm that’s out and not the headshell.
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Post by karma67 on Jun 12, 2021 15:19:24 GMT
what i dont get is,he states here in point 3 korfaudio.com/blog38 3 Consequently, any tonearm that does not have azimuth adjustment is severely deficient. and seemingly then goes on to produce and sell a headshell without it? seems daft to me.
edit,just seen it could be tonearm.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 15:44:37 GMT
Added the photo to the first post
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2021 16:00:12 GMT
Regardless of where the blame lies, €199 for a headshell with no ability for adjustment seems ludicrous.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2021 16:01:52 GMT
Hi all, Even though I should be getting thoroughly familiar with my new BB3 and letting that burn in before making any other changes, I got impatient and bought myself a Korf Audio HS-A02 ceramic headshell and swapped my cartridge over last night. Having gone to the effort of doing that and aligning it, I then realised that the azimuth is off by a fair chunk. Listening confirms that it is indeed off - the stereo image was skewed to the right and voices and guitars sounded very diffuse (otherwise all good). I know that I can simply revert to the previous headshell (ADC LMG-1), but before doing that I wanted to get advice on what my options are if I persist with the Korf. You can see from the picture how far out it is, and that I have shimmed one side of the cartridge with a nylon washer which puts the cartridge pretty much spot on for azimuth. Indeed it sounds much better like this, although I still have a niggling feeling that voices sound a touch diffuse compared with before. Normally there is a bit of play in the headshell before you tighten up the locking collar and by applying pressure to the headshell in the relevant direction as you tighten the collar you can adjust the azimuth a touch, but the Korf has locking pins top and bottom meaning there’s no play. Is there any detriment or disadvantage to using a shim in this way? Is a nylon washer the best thing to use? There are two screws sat just behind the locking collar on the underside of the tonearm which apparently can be loosened off to allow a little bit of play to tweak the azimuth. Does anyone have experience of doing this on the Techie arm? If so, would you recommend it and based on how far out the azimuth is now, do you think the range of adjustment will be sufficient. The prospect of doing that has me nervous... Putting the ADC back on would not be a big deal, but I got the Korf after being convinced it was pretty much the best headshell available and nothing I heard last night (azimuth issues aside) leads me to doubt that view Cheers, Dan. Edit - major fail - forgot the picture, here it is View AttachmentWow. That's miles out 😬
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 16:30:05 GMT
Sounds like the Arm/collar aren't squared, I'm certain Alex's pins are spot on and his surfaces flat. Seems like a well designed part is highlighting a poor one. mikeyb as well to be honest I think it’s a bit of both. I was able to get the Ortofon LH-2000 that I was using originally to sit square only after applying the twist headshell as you tighten the locking collar method. The ADC was a smidgen out even using the same technique but the sound was obviously better and I couldn’t discern any channel imbalance so I lived with it. The Korf is way out as you can see and if you scrutinise the locking pins closely they do look slightly off. I realise that I should just return it, but it was imported from the EU, I paid import VAT and the FedEx handling charge, so I’m not sure what happens with regards to all of that. If anyone knows that would be useful. In any case returning will be the absolute last resort. At the end of the day the TT and arm are not going anywhere for the foreseeable future so as long as I can get the headshell square by some means then that’s the main thing. @bigman80 - i hear what you’re saying about the nylon washer, i did intuitively think the same thing. If i can’t get it right by adjusting the arm, then I will send it back. Does anyone have experience of adjusting the azimuth of the technics arm? I’m willing to give it a go, but I’m nervous because knowing my luck I’d strip the screw heads at the first attempt! Cheers!
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 16:30:58 GMT
what i dont get is,he states here in point 3 korfaudio.com/blog38 3 Consequently, any tonearm that does not have azimuth adjustment is severely deficient. and seemingly then goes on to produce and sell a headshell without it? seems daft to me.
edit,just seen it could be tonearm.
That smacks of him pre-empting any criticism of the headshell not have azimuth adjustment!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2021 17:49:26 GMT
what i dont get is,he states here in point 3 korfaudio.com/blog38 3 Consequently, any tonearm that does not have azimuth adjustment is severely deficient. and seemingly then goes on to produce and sell a headshell without it? seems daft to me.
edit,just seen it could be tonearm.
That smacks of him pre-empting any criticism of the headshell not have azimuth adjustment! Absolutely
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 12, 2021 18:04:21 GMT
Is that headshell seated correctly, is it pushed right in?
I know mine was a tight fit on my arm
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 18:17:25 GMT
Is that headshell seated correctly, is it pushed right in? I know mine was a tight fit on my arm Yes, it was a real bugger to get in and i thought it wouldn’t go initially, but with a bit of wiggling and jiggling it eventually went in fully, but there’s no left or right play at all when it does.
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 12, 2021 18:52:19 GMT
Ok, be good to see a photo of the barrel end as it would show if the pins aren't at 90 degrees to the to the top plate of the headshell.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 19:25:47 GMT
Ok, be good to see a photo of the barrel end as it would show if the pins aren't at 90 degrees to the to the top plate of the headshell. Ok, not easy to capture because of the white on white, but this is the best I can do. You can see it’s a touch out.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2021 19:54:06 GMT
Ok, be good to see a photo of the barrel end as it would show if the pins aren't at 90 degrees to the to the top plate of the headshell. Ok, not easy to capture because of the white on white, but this is the best I can do. You can see it’s a touch out. View AttachmentTake one of the inside of the arm, where the collar is. The headshell looks fine, as expected.
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Post by electronumpty on Jun 12, 2021 20:36:11 GMT
Dont Ortofon carts have a ridge in them that allows azimuth adjustment by tightning or loosening the bolts either side of it? that's how I adjusted my KB when I had it. Looks like you have the same on that cart. Allows azimuth adjustment with arms that don't have it built in. Did it on a rega arm.
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Post by electronumpty on Jun 12, 2021 20:38:43 GMT
Loosen the left hand nut slightly and tighten the right one until it evens out. If yswim.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 21:04:37 GMT
Dont Ortofon carts have a ridge in them that allows azimuth adjustment by tightning or loosening the bolts either side of it? that's how I adjusted my KB when I had it. Looks like you have the same on that cart. Allows azimuth adjustment with arms that don't have it built in. Did it on a rega arm. There’s nothing on the headshell that looks like a nut that can be loosened. Plan C was going to be to try to push/twist the locating lugs (are they what you mean?) a touch to see if that would get it to sit a little differently, but it turns out that is unnecessary. Plan B worked! I got myself into this mess by ordering a new headshell against all reason and logic while I was drunk last weekend, so by damn it 2 beers and a rather substantial rum & coke in tonight I thought to myself “Sh#t or bust” and I went for it using a PH-0 bit held between my fingers to loosen off the 2 screws that fix the locking collar to the arm. I almost soiled myself when the bit went pinging off out of my fingers at the first attempt, but mercifully it went away from the TT harmlessly. Much to my relief it worked at the second even more careful attempt and I managed to loosen them off a touch such that the headshell and locking collar could be rotated a couple of mm left or right and then I incrementally re-tightened the screws and re-cantered the headshell using a micro bubble level as a guide. Eventually I got the screws tightened as much as I dared and verified the end result with the BUM. Phew! That was nerve wracking!! I do agree that making an aftermarket headshell with no azimuth adjustment is asinine, and had I been paying proper attention last weekend I may have held off, but all’s well that ends well Thanks for the pointers.
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dt79
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Posts: 336
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Post by dt79 on Jun 12, 2021 21:35:13 GMT
Dont Ortofon carts have a ridge in them that allows azimuth adjustment by tightning or loosening the bolts either side of it? that's how I adjusted my KB when I had it. Looks like you have the same on that cart. Allows azimuth adjustment with arms that don't have it built in. Did it on a rega arm. OK I’ve just realised what you mean. I’m not sure about other cartridges, but on the Cadenza there is a central ridge at the front but there are ridges on the left and right toward the rear, so I don’t think that you would be able to effect an azimuth adjustment with the screws, and even if you could it was at least 1mm out from one side of the cartridge to the other.
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 12, 2021 22:39:44 GMT
Check arm mount too. Loafs of places with alignment that can effect azimuth.
Ah the joys of a unipivot...
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Post by karma67 on Jun 13, 2021 3:17:47 GMT
Dont Ortofon carts have a ridge in them that allows azimuth adjustment by tightning or loosening the bolts either side of it? that's how I adjusted my KB when I had it. Looks like you have the same on that cart. Allows azimuth adjustment with arms that don't have it built in. Did it on a rega arm. OK I’ve just realised what you mean. I’m not sure about other cartridges, but on the Cadenza there is a central ridge at the front but there are ridges on the left and right toward the rear, so I don’t think that you would be able to effect an azimuth adjustment with the screws, and even if you could it was at least 1mm out from one side of the cartridge to the other. thats the whole point of those ridges,they have them for azimuth adjustment. its one of the reason i bought the cadenza bronze.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 13, 2021 6:12:19 GMT
OK I’ve just realised what you mean. I’m not sure about other cartridges, but on the Cadenza there is a central ridge at the front but there are ridges on the left and right toward the rear, so I don’t think that you would be able to effect an azimuth adjustment with the screws, and even if you could it was at least 1mm out from one side of the cartridge to the other. thats the whole point of those ridges,they have them for azimuth adjustment. its one of the reason i bought the cadenza bronze.
I had tried to adjust azimuth on the CB via the screws in the past and couldn’t seem to make any difference. In any case, it was much too far out for that tiny amount of adjustment to work. I managed to tweak the arm though, so all good now.
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Post by karma67 on Jun 13, 2021 6:27:16 GMT
you loosen 1 and tighgten the other. glad its sorted now.
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