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Post by antonio on Nov 10, 2021 9:08:53 GMT
I am hoping I have answered your question in my previous two posts, I do agree with you about spending a certain percentage on accessories, it was the only way I could put across my meaning. I am pleased you like and heard a difference with Oli's interconnects, I would certainly not knock them, my brother owns a pair, which are actually in use in my NVA system, but when compared to other interconnects at a far greater price we felt they had to be replaced in my brothers system. So posting 'you must be off your tits', was a little over the top, it's all relative to the improvements and the cost of your system. It may be relative to money spent, or how much money someone has, but it isn't relative to performance. Sure if you want something that isn't going to fail after a time you need to spend more but otherwise it's not relevant. I don't agree that a more expensive system needs more expensive interconnects. Sure they cost more so you expect them to be better and lo and behold they are. Self-fulfilling prophecy, and the standard line pushed by the magazines and people like Darko and Hans. They haven't got the first idea what they are talking about or doing. I don't care if the system costa million pounds and the owner had a billion quid in the bank, if they pay £500 for a digital cable they are being mugged off. I did not say you have to spend more on cables if you spend more on equipment, don't forget it was you that started this with the £580 cable, you must be off your tits  I therefore gave you an example of how much you have spent and how much someone else spending a good deal more would not think twice about spending £580, in comparison he is spending less than you relative what the systems cost. You might be getting mugged off as you put it, but you might also be in spending £100 when you can purchase a cable for £3 that will do exactly the same job. Having said all that, you maybe getting a better deal than someone spending £3k+ on a digital cable. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 10, 2021 9:25:53 GMT
Yes I know it is only one cable, so Macca can half the cost of his interconnects, but when compared to people who have spent £100k+ on their system, £580 is peanuts. What have we been talking about on this forum recently, spending a grand on a re-clocker, moving over to vinyl, let's push the boat out, £3k on a new cartridge, it's all relative. I get what you're saying here Antonio however for me the reasoning behind questioning the cable, is this. I cannot create/build a re-clocker or a vinyl cartridge, these are (more of less) guaranteed sonic upgrades (I don't care about measurements and proof etc) verified by listening. The cable 'might' upgrade the sound (I'm certainly not saying it can't or won't) but I can make a cable that does pretty much the same thing for 1% of the cost. That's where the demand for justification for the price is called for by me. I completely agree with the mantra of being absolutely fine with anyone spending whatever they like on anything they like, as well as those with experience dispensing helpful advice in an attempt to steer people in the right direction or away from possible pitfalls. That's a lot of what forums are about for me. As you know DIY can save you serious outlay, especially in the cabling department. If I bought all my cables and interconnects ready made with plugs/outlets etc, we're probably talking well over £1500. However as I fabricate nearly every single cable (audio and power) in my system, it's probably £200-300 at most. I simply cannot do that with any other ancillary, hence the need for 'real' justification for dropping that much on a cable regardless of system value/cost etc. Having said that I would really love to try one and have to eat my words, but somehow I doubt it . . . . . Value, now that's a slightly different argument, and a subjective one. For someone to spend that much for 1% improvement would likely be viewed as poor value depending on whom you are asking. However, if simply 'improvement' is the sole aim here, and that has been achieved, then it probably represents a good purchase to someone out there. I only linked to this cable due to the fact that it is 1.37 long and the length of cables was being discussed. I will admit it is a cable I would love to hear having read reviews, unfortunately it is far too expensive for me. I fully agree making your own cables is definitely worthwhile, probably saving you 50% of the cost, but don't forget, you will not be able to lay your hands on many specialised cables, they are not sold by the metre for diy, yes you can buy very good cable, OCC and pure silver, even buy decent fitments as well. I do not know how good this SRA cable is or whether it is worth it's price, do you know if the Mutec is worth £1k and how much of a difference it will make to your system, the cable might give you more of what you want, these are all unknowns until you try them in your system (blind if Macca had his way ) don't shoot the messenger I was only trying to help  |
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Post by macca on Nov 10, 2021 9:32:45 GMT
specifically a digital cable need not cost more than say 40 pounds if you want something sufficiently robust that it won't fall apart. Spending more is pointless.
Analogue cables could have a small benefit or negative depending on their LCR values and the equipment they connect. Although most of the differences we perceive when comparing them are not real, there can be edge cases.
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 10, 2021 9:40:31 GMT
I get what you're saying here Antonio however for me the reasoning behind questioning the cable, is this. I cannot create/build a re-clocker or a vinyl cartridge, these are (more of less) guaranteed sonic upgrades (I don't care about measurements and proof etc) verified by listening. The cable 'might' upgrade the sound (I'm certainly not saying it can't or won't) but I can make a cable that does pretty much the same thing for 1% of the cost. That's where the demand for justification for the price is called for by me. I completely agree with the mantra of being absolutely fine with anyone spending whatever they like on anything they like, as well as those with experience dispensing helpful advice in an attempt to steer people in the right direction or away from possible pitfalls. That's a lot of what forums are about for me. As you know DIY can save you serious outlay, especially in the cabling department. If I bought all my cables and interconnects ready made with plugs/outlets etc, we're probably talking well over £1500. However as I fabricate nearly every single cable (audio and power) in my system, it's probably £200-300 at most. I simply cannot do that with any other ancillary, hence the need for 'real' justification for dropping that much on a cable regardless of system value/cost etc. Having said that I would really love to try one and have to eat my words, but somehow I doubt it . . . . . Value, now that's a slightly different argument, and a subjective one. For someone to spend that much for 1% improvement would likely be viewed as poor value depending on whom you are asking. However, if simply 'improvement' is the sole aim here, and that has been achieved, then it probably represents a good purchase to someone out there. I only linked to this cable due to the fact that it is 1.37 long and the length of cables was being discussed. I will admit it is a cable I would love to hear having read reviews, unfortunately it is far too expensive for me. I fully agree making your own cables is definitely worthwhile, probably saving you 50% of the cost, but don't forget, you will not be able to lay your hands on many specialised cables, they are not sold by the metre for diy, yes you can buy very good cable, OCC and pure silver, even buy decent fitments as well. I do not know how good this SRA cable is or whether it is worth it's price, do you know if the Mutec is worth £1k and how much of a difference it will make to your system, the cable might give you more of what you want, these are all unknowns until you try them in your system (blind if Macca had his way ) don't shoot the messenger I was only trying to help No messenger shooting here sir, certainly not intended anyway! The Mutec I've just put in my system is doing a lot of good things. Instantly audible. I trusted the reviews and recommendations of others, it's all you can do without getting a home demo in your system. A few months ago I bought a nice stylus for my Technics cartridge, immediate sonic upgrade. These examples were calculated risks based on a lot of research and question asking. As well as the recommendations of trusted users. My point is/was, that a cable that expensive (for me) requires more definitive proof that it will be of as much benefit (so if we're being mathematically linear here value wise) *That* cable would have to be roughly half as good an upgrade as the Mutec or five times the upgrade of the stylus. Obviously that's impossible to measure in real terms (how do you measure enjoyment! haha) but that's what it would have to guarantee for me to take more than a glancing look. I don't think Macca meant anything personal by saying *you*'d have to be 'off yer tits' etc, I think he meant the more general 'you' or in this case anyone considering purchasing it! |
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Post by optical on Nov 10, 2021 9:50:16 GMT
specifically a digital cable need not cost more than say 40 pounds if you want something sufficiently robust that it won't fall apart. Spending more is pointless. Analogue cables could have a small benefit or negative depending on their LCR values and the equipment they connect. Although most of the differences we perceive when comparing them are not real, there can be edge cases. I agree, that is about the outlay of a quality cable with connectors which are made correctly and correspond to the (quite precise) requirements. I like these: (under £40 for most cables). www.ebay.co.uk/str/tm3connections?_trksid=p2047675.l2563They do true (or as 'true' as can be) 75ohm cables (with the 75ohm bnc connectors). They've just beaten all of my other cables. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2021 12:33:05 GMT
specifically a digital cable need not cost more than say 40 pounds if you want something sufficiently robust that it won't fall apart. Spending more is pointless. Analogue cables could have a small benefit or negative depending on their LCR values and the equipment they connect. Although most of the differences we perceive when comparing them are not real, there can be edge cases. I agree, that is about the outlay of a quality cable with connectors which are made correctly and correspond to the (quite precise) requirements. I like these: (under £40 for most cables). www.ebay.co.uk/str/tm3connections?_trksid=p2047675.l2563They do true (or as 'true' as can be) 75ohm cables (with the 75ohm bnc connectors). They've just beaten all of my other cables. I have one of those. Didn't feel it bettered my Acoustic Revive CCC one. |
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Post by optical on Nov 10, 2021 12:37:37 GMT
I agree, that is about the outlay of a quality cable with connectors which are made correctly and correspond to the (quite precise) requirements. I like these: (under £40 for most cables). www.ebay.co.uk/str/tm3connections?_trksid=p2047675.l2563They do true (or as 'true' as can be) 75ohm cables (with the 75ohm bnc connectors). They've just beaten all of my other cables. I have one of those. Didn't feel it bettered my Acoustic Revive CCC one. I don't doubt it didn't! Would be very interested in a side-by-side of them. I need to get a couple of other bits sorted then I will probably take the plunge into some ccc . . . . oh dear. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2021 15:36:22 GMT
I have one of those. Didn't feel it bettered my Acoustic Revive CCC one. I don't doubt it didn't! Would be very interested in a side-by-side of them. I need to get a couple of other bits sorted then I will probably take the plunge into some ccc . . . . oh dear. I wouldn't mess about. Get your tool kit out and knock up a proper one. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 10, 2021 15:39:49 GMT
I agree, that is about the outlay of a quality cable with connectors which are made correctly and correspond to the (quite precise) requirements. I like these: (under £40 for most cables). www.ebay.co.uk/str/tm3connections?_trksid=p2047675.l2563They do true (or as 'true' as can be) 75ohm cables (with the 75ohm bnc connectors). They've just beaten all of my other cables. I have one of those. Didn't feel it bettered my Acoustic Revive CCC one. Your link will not open for me, can you tell me what the name is and is it a digital interconnect or usb cable? |
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2021 15:40:41 GMT
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Post by optical on Nov 10, 2021 15:44:22 GMT
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 10, 2021 15:45:09 GMT
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I therefore gave you an example of how much you have spent and how much someone else spending a good deal more would not think twice about spending £580, in comparison he is spending less than you relative what the systems cost. You might be getting mugged off as you put it, but you might also be in spending £100 when you can purchase a cable for £3 that will do exactly the same job. Having said all that, you maybe getting a better deal than someone spending £3k+ on a digital cable.
